What did Andrea Horwath exactly do to lose some of NDP members support

[Deductive_Dude]

I am kind of new to Canadian politics, so putting this on mind would you please explain to me how did Horwath end up upsetting her core supporters by not backing up the Liberal budget?

[Boges]

I am kind of new to Canadian politics, so putting this on mind would you please explain to me how did Horwath end up upsetting her core supporters by not backing up the Liberal budget?

Horvath was essentially taking part in a coalition government in the 2 years since the 2011 election. Both budgets were changed to garner her support. The budget the Liberals recently proposed was the most left-wing budget anyone could have imagined. All the unions supported it because it actually increased spending when the province has a $10 billion plus deficit.

She was in between a rock and another rock. Either support an unrealistic budget and tacitly support the Liberals continued corruption or call an election and risk her base.

Horvath also supports several populist positions. She won't support a hike to the HST or Gas Tax. It's seem by many that she's actually to the right of the Liberals.

I'm a PC supporter and I'd certainly rather see the NDP win than this irresponsible Wynne government. I think that self-evident truth has made many left-wing people upset.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Boges

[Deductive_Dude]

Thank you for your prompt reply.

But wouldn't this move by the core supporters in a time so close to elections actually undermine NDP chances ?

[Michael Hardner]

I think Boges has encapsulated this well.

On the CBC this morning, Judy Rebiick (sp ? one of the co-signers) expressed hope that they can change the platform during the campaign.

[Michael Hardner]

Also - if you're conspiracy minded, then this may be a ruse to sell the new middle-of-the-road NDP. But... it isn't.

[Deductive_Dude]

Do you mean a political stunt to entice more middle and right votes .... But it isn't ?

[Michael Hardner]

Do you mean a political stunt to entice more middle and right votes .... But it isn't ?

Yes, that's what I mean it would be but is not.

Clear ? No ? Good !

[Deductive_Dude]

Lol, nothing is clear at this point but I will keep on trying ?

[jacee]

I've been trying to figure out what Andrea's up to too, and I suspect she's after Hudak's small business vote:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2654094

Robin Sears, who served as chief of staff for then-NDP leader Bob Rae in the 1980s, said NDP governments in Western Canada have historically managed to be fiscally disciplined while remaining socially progressive.Andrea Horwath leaves prominent NDP members 'deeply distressed'"You don't have to bankrupt a province to be a good progressive I guess is my fundamental point, and I think that's partly what Andrea's is trying to say,"

[Michael Hardner]

I have been thinking about this strategy lately; for years, I thought the NDP brand could stand to adopt a little more of an image that reflected fiscally responsible blah blah blah. I added the 'blah blah blah' because this is, in the end, about image not substance.

The risk is that you alienate your base and deincentivize their participation so that they stay home, vs. attracting the swing voters.

[jacee]

I have been thinking about this strategy lately; for years, I thought the NDP brand could stand to adopt a little more of an image that reflected fiscally responsible blah blah blah. I added the 'blah blah blah' because this is, in the end, about image not substance.

The risk is that you alienate your base and deincentivize their participation so that they stay home, vs. attracting the swing voters.

I'm struggling with how to characterize ... the difference between 'bleeding heart' well-off progressives who tend to see everything in terms of governments needing to spend money on the 'less fortunate' - ie, throwing money at problems - and pragmatic grassroots progressives like Andrea and myself who see solutions in practical terms of creating opportunities for people to help themselves via a healthy economy, focusing on small business and entrepreneurship where most jobs are created.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/02806.html

Small businesses account for more than 98 percent of all firms in Canada and proportionally play a large role in net job creation, creating 77.7 percent of all private jobs from 2002 to 2012 (Figure 2). In total, small businesses created a little over 100,000 jobs each year on average. Medium-sized and large businesses, which account for 1.6 percent and 0.1 percent of all firms, respectively, created 12.5 percent and 9.8 percent of net new jobs over the same period, representing about 17,000 and 11,800 jobs each year on average.

I think that's the split we are seeing,

and I think she's smart to carve out a place for the NDP to be business and economy savvy.

[Big Guy]

I believe that the members of the NDP both federally and provincially saw their role as the "conscience" of Canadians. No one likes to be reminded of their conscience so they never really thought they had a chance to govern. Even Bob Rae was surprised when he came to power in Ontario but that is another long story.

It appears that Horvath has come to the reality that to be elected to power, the NDP had to move towards the right to get some of the middle vote. She has done so and has been reprimanded by the old stalwart NDPers from the old days. They feel that she has abandoned the role of the party.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/05/23/andrea-horwath-blasted-in-letter-from-deeply-distressed-ndp-stalwarts/

I too do not understand why she pulled the plug on the Liberals. She got almost everything the NDP could wish for in the budget. I really think that was the best deal that she could get with the number of seats she had. I also think it was a mistake, the NDP will not be forming the next government, the next budget will not be as generous to NDP philosophy as the one she rejected and that it will cost her the leadership.

[Michael Hardner]

I think that's the split we are seeing,

and I think she's smart to carve out a place for the NDP to be business and economy savvy.

I heard a strategist talking about the Western province flavour of NDP - which seems to be what she's trying to reinvent. I think that is possibly the most Canadian style of politics there is, and I applaud it but it will take more than one election to communicate this change.

[jacee]

I heard a strategist talking about the Western province flavour of NDP - which seems to be what she's trying to reinvent. I think that is possibly the most Canadian style of politics there is,

Agreed!

and I applaud it but it will take more than one election to communicate this change.

Again ... agreed! I wish the communication plan was a little more ... apparent, but maybe she knows more than we do.

[Michael Hardner]

Again ... agreed! I wish the communication plan was a little more ... apparent, but maybe she knows more than we do.

I'm hoping it's a multi-election plan. It will need to be.

[Topaz]

The PC and the Liberals have rules the province for many many years and now it time for another change. Who knows, Horwath, may do what Rae did, get a landslide election. We, as voters, can't vote back in the Liberals because parties will think they can do whatever they want and not be punished and I certain don't want the Harris era back with Hudak. So, with my hydro bills going up along with a increase in natural gas, and lowering auto insurance, I'm leaning towards the NDP, she can't do any worse than the other two and she does have some good ideas

[Deductive_Dude]

I always thought that the NDPs main problem was the image they have of someone with big ideas that cost a fortune and can't materialize into something palpable .... Would Horwath be just trying to change this image leaning more right than the hardcore leftist in her party would allow ? Would this explain why the party looks like someone shooting his own foot?

[jacee]

http://ourplan.ontariondp.ca/?source=homepage

This is my plan.

We can make life more affordable for families.

We can create jobs by supporting our local companies and small businesses.

We can end the waste of your tax dollars and invest in healthcare and education.

Hmm ... I'd almost have to say it makes sense.

[jacee]

I always thought that the NDPs main problem was the image they have of someone with big ideas that cost a fortune and can't materialize into something palpable .... Would Horwath be just trying to change this image leaning more right than the hardcore leftist in her party would allow ? Would this explain why the party looks like someone shooting his own foot?

Would this clumsy election partisan slamming explain your recent 'arrival' in Ontario politics?

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

[Deductive_Dude]

Lol no ... I actually don't have a clue, it was much easier when I was living in Toronto. Believe it or not politics didn't matter much then .... Most of the times I voted for the person not the party , or rather regardless of the party .... Now I don't have this luxury

[jacee]

Lol no ... I actually don't have a clue, it was much easier when I was living in Toronto. Believe it or not politics didn't matter much then .... Most of the times I voted for the person not the party , or rather regardless of the party .... Now I don't have this luxury

Why not?

[Deductive_Dude]

When Living in Toronto I didn't care much what was happening in the rest of Ontario. To me Toronto was Ontario ! I felt I was living in an indestructible shell that will flourish no matter what happens outside or what the provincial politics directives were. I voted for a person that will best serve my riding and that's it. Now I am realizing that voting for a person will probably get you nothing unless this person's party wins. Then you have a chance of getting something done or changed.

[jacee]

When Living in Toronto I didn't care much what was happening in the rest of Ontario. To me Toronto was Ontario ! I felt I was living in an indestructible shell that will flourish no matter what happens outside or what the provincial politics directives were. I voted for a person that will best serve my riding and that's it. Now I am realizing that voting for a person will probably get you nothing unless this person's party wins. Then you have a chance of getting something done or changed.

So ... you were pretending to be "new to Canadian politics", but you are a party person slamming another party.

Your story just doesn't quite add up to me.

Edited May 28, 2014 by jacee

[Deductive_Dude]

I am not actually a party person and never did affiliate myself with any party .... and I am new to Canadian politics because I am new to Canada, to be precise relatively new . As for party slamming I have no hidden agenda, I think Canada deserves better than the big three parties on the current scene . I didn't make up my mind yet how to vote in the next provincial elections and I have real concerns when it comes to any of the big three. Don't you think enough talking about the person and just talk politics ?

[jacee]

I am not actually a party person and never did affiliate myself with any party .... and I am new to Canadian politics because I am new to Canada, to be precise relatively new . As for party slamming I have no hidden agenda, I think Canada deserves better than the big three parties on the current scene . I didn't make up my mind yet how to vote in the next provincial elections and I have real concerns when it comes to any of the big three. Don't you think enough talking about the person and just talk politics ?

I think Andrea Horwath has taken a big step forward for the Ont. NDP by identifying with small business/entrepreneurs who create most of the jobs, and by carving out a fiscally responsible 'balance the budget' space for the NDP. Those are positions with broad appeal. I think it's long overdue and welcome, especially with Wynne giving 'handouts' for votes but not really addressing how to balance the budget, and Hudak with no ideas relevant to the 21st century.