Pro Life? Then Don't Run Under Liberal Banner

[Argus]

The conservative whining has started in earnest so we can expect that some of the Tory politicians will walk right into JT's trap.

It's interesting that so far you have, in the past week, expressed admiration and support for Vladimir Putin, Sadaam Hussein, and now Justin Trudeau.

Something about dictators you seem to like...

[Argus]

You don't think it might have been a good idea to at least inform his caucus before going to the press? Or maybe that that is an indication of how much respect he has for them? He didn't bother to inform them about his senate decision either.

[cybercoma]

The Liberals didn't fail because they were everything to everone. They failed because they were nothing to anyone. Their policies shifted in the winds of public opinion polls, and their interest in doing anything for Canada was virtually nil as long as they weren't threatened by a divided Right.

Which is the same thing that I said. Being everything to everyone is the same as being nothing to anyone.

[monty16]

It's interesting that so far you have, in the past week, expressed admiration and support for Vladimir Putin, Sadaam Hussein, and now Justin Trudeau.

Something about dictators you seem to like...

There is no doubt whatsoever that Saddam Hussein was on the side of right. That's now been firmly established and the US leaders of the Iraq are guilty of willful first degree murder and should be tried in the Hague for murder.

If is definitely my opinion that Putin is on the side of right. Consideration of the US track record substantially proves that for me.

Justin Trudeau is not a dictator and it reflects badly on you to suggest he is.

[bush_cheney2004]

Trudeau's party was no friend of Saddam's Iraq. Canada's Liberal government supported and enforced crippling sanctions that allegedly caused thousands of deaths, and the same Liberal government was also complicit in the invasion and occupation of Iraq beginning in 2003.

[monty16]

Trudeau's party was no friend of Saddam's Iraq. Canada's Liberal government supported and enforced crippling sanctions that allegedly caused thousands of deaths, and the same Liberal government was also complicit in the invasion and occupation of Iraq beginning in 2003.

Yes, we were once fooled into supporting the US led war against Iraq. But not twice. I would say that tells us quite a bit about what we knew was the real reason. I was around at the time and I recall that most Canadians objected to that war. Chretien listened to the people. Harper will not.

Never make the mistake of thinking that I ever excuse any government leader of Canada for our country's crimes against humanity. I'm not an American lemming. And so, in retrospect we now know that the first war against Iraq was for control of Iraq's oil resources just as well as the next one was. Saving Kuwait was only a part of the lies fabricated to allow the US to kill people for oil.

[bush_cheney2004]

Trudeau cannot run from the history of his own party, not even by hiding behind aborted babies in Canada.

[Argus]

There is no doubt whatsoever that Saddam Hussein was on the side of right. That's now been firmly established and the US leaders of the Iraq are guilty of willful first degree murder and should be tried in the Hague for murder.

If is definitely my opinion that Putin is on the side of right. Consideration of the US track record substantially proves that for me.

Are you aware that virtually everyone across the political spectrum would consider such statements to be crazy?

Edited May 25, 2014 by Argus

[jacee]

If men weren't required by law to support the baby a woman decides to have, for the next 18 years you might have a point.

There will never be a law saying that a woman must have an abortion because a man doesn't want to pay the child support.

It's still none of their business whether a woman chooses to have an abortion or raise the child.

The man took responsibility for child support the moment he decided to have unprotected sex.

.

Edited May 26, 2014 by jacee

[Big Guy]

?

The man took responsibility for child support the moment he decided to have unprotected sex.
.

What if the woman assured him that she was on birth control? Or the protective device failed during the process?

[guyser]

Are you saying the Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian, Danish, Belgian, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Spanish, British, Australian, Austrian, Icelandic etc governments are all misogynistic?

How else to frame it?

Boiled down, they want to dictate what a woman can and cant do.

The hate part of the word not so much but .....

[guyser]

?

What if the woman assured him that she was on birth control? Or the protective device failed during the process?

Pay up!

[jacee]

?

What if the woman assured him that she was on birth control?

Wrap it up anyway. Haven't you heard of STD's?

Or the protective device failed during the process?

Nobody guarantees that you can have sex without pregnancy. It's a chance you take everytime.

Take responsibility for your own actions, guys.

.

[monty16]

The term pro-life deliberately implies that the other side is pro-death. That is not correct for Canadians who understand that the proper approach is to provide social input and assistance to both men and women in order to teach how to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It is Canada's approach and it can't be understood by the majority of Americans because that is not the nature of their socially irresponsible capitalist system to which they cling.

Justin Trudeau understands this as well as any other socially responsible Canadian does and for that reason it's wrong to suggest that no MP of the Liberal party is forbidden from being 'pro-life'. Of course most all Canadians are 'pro-life' and at the same time being in favour of a woman's free choice to abort a fetus.

The American approach has no place in Canada and they should keep it confined to their conversations in which many of them become so enraged over the issue that they will murder doctors to get their way. Indeeed, bringing it into a conversation in Canada will likely make their rage contagious with the rightwing conservative element in Canada, resulting in the same sort of corruption getting a foothold.

WE understand, they apparently can't!

[bush_cheney2004]

Gee, that would explain why Canadians who can't get abortions in Canada have traveled to the U.S. to get them for many years.

[Argus]

There will never be a law saying that a woman must have an abortion because a man doesn't want to pay the child support.

It's still none of their business whether a woman chooses to have an abortion or raise the child.

The man took responsibility for child support the moment he decided to have unprotected sex.

.

But the woman has no such responsibilty. How do you even pretend women want equality while still exempting yourself from the most basic of duties? A woman can abort the fetus if she feels it will be an impediment to her career or to her partying, or simply inconvenient. Or, if she has it, she can give it away, wipe her hands, and then go on doing whatever she wants to do. A man has no choice whatsoever. He's commited for 18 years, with no way of absolving himself of responsibility.

[Argus]

?

What if the woman assured him that she was on birth control? Or the protective device failed during the process?

Doesn't matter. The entire onus is on him. The woman is considered, by law, to be lacking all responsibility, because, after all, she's only a woman. You can't expect such a dainty, delicate, emotionally frail gender to be held responsible for their actions like men are.

[monty16]

Gee, that would explain why Canadians who can't get abortions in Canada have traveled to the U.S. to get them for many years.

There wasn't a word of what I said that had anything to do with your comment. And I also sincerely doubt that many Canadians would go to the US where most of the states are making it impossible for women to abort a fetus with a doctor's help. Is it that you're mostly interested in visiting your country's problems on Canada? What's your schtick, saving babies in Canada? Are you even actually trying to suggest that Canada adopt your country's approach to abortion? Sorry pal, but that boat sailed a long time ago.

[Argus]

How else to frame it?

Boiled down, they want to dictate what a woman can and cant do.

The hate part of the word not so much but .....

So the hate part was just hyperbole. As for dicating, isn't that what government's DO? Don't they dicate everything from what you can put on your lawn to how high your fence can be to what shape your car must be in to what drugs you take? If you want to kill yourself, the govenrment says no. Even though it's YOUR body. If you want to take drugs, the goverment says NO, even though it's your body. Hell, if you're rich and want to clone yourself, the government says no.

[Argus]

Take responsibility for your own actions, guys.

.

Why? You don't.

[guyser]

So the hate part was just hyperbole.

The meaning of the word includes hate. They dont hate, just dont think very well how their laws dictate to only one side of the sex equation.

As for dicating, isn't that what government's DO? Don't they dicate everything from what you can put on your lawn to how high your fence can be to what shape your car must be in to what drugs you take? If you want to kill yourself, the govenrment says no. Even though it's YOUR body. If you want to take drugs, the goverment says NO, even though it's your body. Hell, if you're rich and want to clone yourself, the government says no.

Sort of yes, thats what govt 's do.

But they dont tell you "Hey Lady, your fence is too high"

"but my husband built it"

"Oh ok then, its legal"

[monty16]

So the hate part was just hyperbole. As for dicating, isn't that what government's DO? Don't they dicate everything from what you can put on your lawn to how high your fence can be to what shape your car must be in to what drugs you take? If you want to kill yourself, the govenrment says no. Even though it's YOUR body. If you want to take drugs, the goverment says NO, even though it's your body. Hell, if you're rich and want to clone yourself, the government says no.

Peace, order, and good government? Does that include putting poisons on your lawn that kill animals? Does that include allowing fences 20 feet high? Does that include running a car that's a danger to other drivers? Does that include legalizing hard drugs such as Heroin and encouraging it's use? Does that include allowing suicide and even encouraging it?

You're most likely described the rabid right libertarian agenda of south of the border. In Canada those questions are all non-starters. Why not ask Canadians if your ideas are suitable for Canadian society? Maybe your idea of what good government would be is a little off the mark? Ya think?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Are you even actually trying to suggest that Canada adopt your country's approach to abortion? Sorry pal, but that boat sailed a long time ago.

Despite all the political rhetoric about unfettered access to abortions in Canada, the reality is quite different because of a lack of doctors performing the procedure, long travel distances, gestational limits, review boards, etc., etc. Canadians seeking timely abortions have long requested and received such services in the United States. It is always fun to laugh at that political "boat".

Edited May 26, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[monty16]

Maybe Americans are absorbed in wishful thinking and don't tell the truth?

http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpapers/54-US-Canada-Abortion-Law-Policy.pdf

Canada first liberalized its criminal abortion law in 1969, allowing it to be performed in hospitals with the approval of a “therapeutic abortion committee.” But the law resulted in unequal access for women so the Canadian Supreme Court threw out the entire law in 1988. Although the Canadian legislature soon tried to re-criminalize abortion, the bill failed to pass. Governments have said repeatedly over the years that they do not intend to re-legislate against abortion. This leaves Canada as the only democratic, industrialized nation in the world with no laws restricting abortion. (Only two other countries have no laws: China and North Korea). Yet Canada has a relatively low rate of abortion compared to other industrialized countries and one of the lowest rates of abortion-related complications and maternal mortality in the world. Over 90% of abortions are performed before 12 weeks gestation, and 98% before 16 weeks gestation.[1] These statistics prove that no laws are needed to regulate or reduce abortions, and that women and doctors can be trusted to exercise the right responsibly.

The Supreme Court justices grounded the right to abortion in Canada’s constitution, where the primary protection cited was women's right to “security of the person.” One of the judges also found that the abortion law violated women's rights to “freedom of conscience” and “liberty.”[2] Unlike in the USA, women’s equality rights are enshrined in Canada’s constitution, so courts have been very reluctant to confer any rights on fetuses—to do so would interfere with women’s established constitutional rights. Various court rulings since 1988 have denied fetuses any legal recognition in Canada and no abortion restrictions have ever been passed.[3]

Abortion is funded by Medicare in Canada, except for two provinces that refuse to fully fund abortions in clinics as required by law. This is partly because of an anti-choice political bias, but also because Canada frowns on private clinics operating outside its universal healthcare system.

Which all makes it rather unlikely that Canadian women would choose the land of the gun for an abortion?

Go figure?

Edited May 26, 2014 by monty16

[bush_cheney2004]

When Pierre Trudeau was PM, thousands of Canadian women would seek abortions in the U.S. each year. That would continue well into the late 1980's and early 1990's. The Trudeau legacy for free and easy access to abortions is not so great after all.

...and they keep on coming to the U.S. from Canada, where some abortion services are not available at all in province.

Edited May 26, 2014 by bush_cheney2004