BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[Bryan]

Somebody making $75K in BC only pays 20% combined taxes ? That sounds wrong.

A little over 20%, but pretty close:

http://incometax.calculatorscanada.ca/britishcolumbia

Tax year : 2013

Income : $75,000

Provincial tax : $ 4,263

Provincial surtax : $ --

Federal tax : $ 11,795

Total tax : $ 16,058

Average tax rate : 21.41%

After-tax income : $ 58,942

Edited March 28, 2014 by Bryan

[Pct2017]

I believe you will get a slightly better tax estimate on the following site. It is a bit more sophisticated. I have always found it to be accurate to within a couple of bucks.

http://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/taxcalculator.htm

Something that a lot of folks out here in BC miss is that we do pay a much lower tax rate than most of the rest of Canada. If that same teacher lived in Ontario, her tax rate would be 21.9% vs the BC rate of 20.2%.

It would not be unreasonable to take this argument one step further by saying that the same teacher making $75,000 also gets an additional 25% in salary in the way of loading costs such as pension, MSP, dental etc etc. But she does not pay any taxes on that portion. So, in actual fact, she is making $93,750, or at least that is what she is costing the taxpayer, and is only paying $15,200 in income tax. Now we are at 16.2% taxation level vs 26.0% for corporations.

Those demon Neo-Liberals here in BC have done a pretty good job of allowing us middle class workers to keep as much of our pay as we can. But, alas, to some like our young friend Socialist, until the day that those greedy corporations are driven out of Canada so that the middle class can pay the entire tax burden, the crusade continues.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Pct2017

[AngusThermopyle]

My oh my! Well Socialist it appears that you truly are a masochist. Here you are taking a sound spanking from Pct2017 every time you post something yet you continue to set yourself up for it. In fact any sane person knows that the reality of the situation is pretty much the opposite of what you claim. Teachers are not being screwed by anyone, in fact it is usually the teachers unions who are doing the screwing. In reality a large portion of resources are directed towards education, there certainly isn't a shortage of money. Perhaps the problem is that the money is being misused?

Anyway, I'm not really interested, mainly because reading your baseless statements has fostered a vast sense of boredom and contempt within me. You in fact are your own worst enemy. Your continued one trick pony act has convinced me that if you are indeed representative of modern teachers then modern teachers are all fools. Of course I do know that in fact not all teachers are like you and there are good ones out there. At this point however I'm just reading this thread because I find it hilarious. Its hard to comprehend why you keep trying after getting your ass handed to you repeatedly. You should just admit that you're full of it and slink away while you still have that one remaining tattered shred of dignity left.

[socialist]

My oh my! Well Socialist it appears that you truly are a masochist. Here you are taking a sound spanking from Pct2017 every time you post something yet you continue to set yourself up for it. In fact any sane person knows that the reality of the situation is pretty much the opposite of what you claim. Teachers are not being screwed by anyone, in fact it is usually the teachers unions who are doing the screwing. In reality a large portion of resources are directed towards education, there certainly isn't a shortage of money. Perhaps the problem is that the money is being misused?

Anyway, I'm not really interested, mainly because reading your baseless statements has fostered a vast sense of boredom and contempt within me. You in fact are your own worst enemy. Your continued one trick pony act has convinced me that if you are indeed representative of modern teachers then modern teachers are all fools. Of course I do know that in fact not all teachers are like you and there are good ones out there. At this point however I'm just reading this thread because I find it hilarious. Its hard to comprehend why you keep trying after getting your ass handed to you repeatedly. You should just admit that you're full of it and slink away while you still have that one remaining tattered shred of dignity left.

Shows how little you know. Have you been following the situation in BC? No? Well I'm not surprised. The courts judged in favor of the BCTF and teachers that the neo-liberal government for failing to negotiate in good faith, while trying to force teachers to strike in a failed attempt to get the public to side with the neo-liberals.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-must-pay-2m-to-teachers-over-class-size-court-battle-1.1658562

What's that? You don't understand the neo-liberal agenda against public education? Well here. Have a read and educate yourself on the issue instead of dropping by with nothing to offer.

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ987320.pdf

http://socialistalternative.ca/posts/650

Edited March 29, 2014 by socialist

[AngusThermopyle]

I'm sorry but what exactly does this mean?

"The courts judged in favour of the BCTF and teachers that the neo-liberal government for failing to negotiate in good faith, while trying to force teachers to strike in a failed attempt to get the public to side with the neo-liberals."

Is that a statement made in English? Much to my dismay I was educated in the old stone age fashion, you know, the one where you actually learned how to communicate in a legible manner. As I've said before, if you're an example of the new pioneers in education then we're all doomed.

You really should consider taking the time to form a coherent thought before you post. Honestly, it would make you appear to be so much more than the village idiot if you did.

[Pct2017]

You really should consider taking the time to form a coherent thought before you post. Honestly, it would make you appear to be so much more than the village idiot if you did.

Ah, can we speak honestly here. Even if Socialist takes the time to compose the most grammatically correct sentence the world has ever seen, the best he can shoot for is to be a well spoken village idiot. The words would all be in the correct order, but the message would still be moronic.

Hey, listen there Socialist, this has been fun, but alas, I have grown weary of your one string banjo concerts. Adieu my young friend. As your hero Karl Marx once said, "Question everything". But in your case, what he actually meant was "Question everything on those insipid websites you keep reading while your class is watching yet another video."

Edited March 30, 2014 by Pct2017

[socialist]

Ah, can we speak honestly here. Even if Socialist takes the time to compose the most grammatically correct sentence the world has ever seen, the best he can shoot for is to be a well spoken village idiot. The words would all be in the correct order, but the message would still be moronic.

Hey, listen there Socialist, this has been fun, but alas, I have grown weary of your one string banjo concerts. Adieu my young friend. As your hero Karl Marx once said, "Question everything". But in your case, what he actually meant was "Question everything on those insipid websites you keep reading while your class is watching yet another video."

You have no rebuttal to what I cite. You choose to understand only that with which you ignorantly agree. Thankfully grammar is on the way out. It along with worksheets is part of the old way and doesn't constitute the 21st century skills be pushed in schools today: collaboration, critical thinking, creativity, and communication. Grammar, hand writing, long division, worksheets, sitting in rows, educators simply being purveyors of knowledge...all those things are out in the 21st century. But you guys can only comment on how things USED to be. It's the 21st century. Try being part of this century. The Canadian public school system is one of the best in the world.

And you small minded anti-teacher union rubes should read this. http://www.alternet.org/6-reasons-teachers-unions-are-good-kids Yes teacher unions are good for kids, because they truly care against the neo-liberals who are trying to privatize and create two tiered education.

[socialist]

Let's remember why BC teachers took a strike vote. Let's remember.

http://vancouverobserver.com/news/bc-government-appeals-court-ruling-slamming-its-abuse-public-education-bargaining-rights

[Michael Hardner]

"small minded" and "village idiot" are insults ... keep the conversation on the ideas, not on the people thank you.

[AngusThermopyle]

Oh, okay then. Honestly I was thinking that "village idiot" was more of an occupational description though.

[Pct2017]

I recently took part in a discussion which compared Socialist to a village idiot. To say this was wrong, insensitive and mean spirited is an understatement. So I am on bended knee hoping the village idiot community can find it in their hearts to forgive me. You have done nothing to me to justify such total disregard for your feelings of worth and self esteem. I hope that time can heel the psychological damage that I have brought upon you.

In closing, to village idiots both near and far, I promise I will be much more careful in choosing comparatives moving forward.

Humbly

PCT2017

Edited March 30, 2014 by Pct2017

[socialist]

I recently took part in a discussion which compared Socialist to a village idiot. To say this was wrong, insensitive and mean spirited is an understatement. So I am on bended knee hoping the village idiot community can find it in their hearts to forgive me. You have done nothing to me to justify such total disregard for your feelings of worth and self esteem. I hope that time can heel the psychological damage that I have brought upon you.

In closing, to village idiots both near and far, I promise I will be much more careful in choosing comparatives moving forward.

Humbly

PCT2017

I provided numerous links and you couldn't refute one of them. Sorry but you lose.

[Pct2017]

I provided numerous links and you couldn't refute one of them. Sorry but you lose.

What the, oh hang on, it is April 1. Good one there Socialist. You really had me going there.

I bet April 1 is a huge day in the young Socialist household. Imagine one day in each year where everyone pays homage to you personally. It must be like Christmas holidays, Easter break, Spring Break, summer holidays, pro-d days, snow days, exam week, sick days, I just don't feel like teaching today days and most of June and December all rolled up in one.

[socialist]

What the, oh hang on, it is April 1. Good one there Socialist. You really had me going there.

I bet April 1 is a huge day in the young Socialist household. Imagine one day in each year where everyone pays homage to you personally. It must be like Christmas holidays, Easter break, Spring Break, summer holidays, pro-d days, snow days, exam week, sick days, I just don't feel like teaching today days and most of June and December all rolled up in one.

My colleagues and I get a kick from reading your baseless rants. We all know there are teacher haters out there and you are proof. Thankfully people like you are a slim minority. Try teaching for a day and see how your views change. Also I spend hundreds of my own money for classroom supplies because we are underfunded. You continue to prove you have no clue.

[GostHacked]

You have no rebuttal to what I cite. You choose to understand only that with which you ignorantly agree. Thankfully

grammar is on the way out.

How do you expect to communicate properly without spelling and grammar? The English language is complex.

It along with worksheets is part of the old way and doesn't constitute the 21st century skills be pushed in schools today: collaboration, critical thinking, creativity, and communication. Grammar, hand writing, long division, worksheets, sitting in rows, educators simply being purveyors of knowledge...all those things are out in the 21st century. But you guys can only comment on how things USED to be. It's the 21st century. Try being part of this century. The Canadian public school system is one of the best in the world.

If you cannot teach proper ways of effective communication through spelling and grammar, I don't want you near a classroom. I fear it will be very problematic to communicate with the youth if they are not taught proper language skills. Unless you prefer a discovery method here as well. Which is doing the children a complete disservice.

I do encourage critical thinking. I would also like to see teachers to recognize a student's ability in a certain area. If the kid excels at math, then give the kid more math. But don't ignore the other basics that are needed that would compliment the math skills. What would be very troublesome, is if a kid discovers a new and better way of doing something, but cannot effectively communicate that to others so they understand the new method.

The last thing you posted was an article. And if a person was to understand that article, what do you think would be required of the reader? The article could have been written by someone who thinks grammar and spelling does not matter. A very dangerous road to take.

Edited April 2, 2014 by GostHacked

[Pct2017]

Try teaching for a day and see how your views change.

Jeez, you are sucking me back into this fray. I did want to step aside as I feel that my work here is done, but then you play the one card that I have waited so patiently for.

OK, let's explore that favourite card for teachers far and wide to play. First, let us drop the nonsense about if I were to simply observe for a day in a classroom, I would see the teacher's light and bring out my chequebook to give you a raise personally. When my kids were in elementary, both my wife and I spent as much time as our jobs would allow helping out both in class and at the school in general. So, yes, I have been in a classroom, and no, it was not a particularly daunting place.

But, you asked me to teach for a day, not observe. In order for me to go into a class and teach, I would have to go back to university and get my degree in Education. Not a big deal, as that would only take one to two years, depending on which province I am in. And let us face it, a one to two year vacation taking basket weaving would be nice. But, by natural extension of your argument, you are going to have to take care of my job while I am teaching. So now, you are going back to university for five years in which you will spend most of your time curled up in a ball wondering what hit you. So let's say you do somehow muddle through (I have been waiting three or four years by now). Well, hang on, you are still not ready to take my job even for a day. No, I have something called a professional association that requires you work under the mentorship of a senior professional for a couple of years before being able to call yourself a professional. All the while, I am still waiting, ready to go because teachers do not have a professional association (I speak of BC here, but it would not shock me if it were true for the rest of Canada), they only have a union.

So, seven very long years later (and of course this is all fiction because you would have flunked out in the first year), we are ready to switch for the day.

Now, I would hate every minute of it because I would be surrounded by teachers all day long. The kids and the teaching would be easy enough, but the 5.5 hours of non-stop whining by my co-workers would drive me to alcohol.

Meanwhile, across town, you would roll into work at 8:30 and my mean old boss would jump down your throat for being 2 hours late. Then you would would stare in wonder as your co-workers grab a coffee and take it back to their stations around 10. What about recess you would scream at them. Lunch, yup, you can go have lunch. Unless you are behind because you showed up at 8:30, in which case you now have a working lunch. Then the killer. 3:00 pm rolls around and nobody is making a move for their cars. WFT. 4:00, still not moving. Jesus, it is 5 o'clock. What is this, a salt mine? Finally, 5:30 rolls around and people starting packing it up. You are drained. You maybe muddled through the work, but could you do it again tomorrow?

So, yes, I could teach if I were to go back to school, but ask yourself very honestly, could you make the switch that you are talking about.

[Michael Hardner]

Jeez, you are sucking me back into this fray.

A couple of points here:

You did indeed get sucked in, because the relative difficulty of any job is pretty much impossible to say. You yourself point out that you couldn't stand being a teacher, and that is indeed part of the job.

You also dismissed teachers college out of hand, which I know is difficult. A friend of mine quit his job as a lawyer to go back for his Bachelor of Education and he's basically unavailable due to the schedule.

Also, the idea that sitting in a classroom as an assistant as being the captain of the ship isn't believable. Corporate trainers don't teach at the same intensity, with the same energy requirements as classroom teachers that's for sure.

But... that's all just subjective stuff. The real error is in going down this path to begin with. The fact is that this job is done based on collective bargaining, period. Obviously, they would be paid less if that weren't the case. The idea that economic realities follow some kind of rules of virtue is mostly incorrect. It's the market that drives wages, and if you have a monopoly on the market then you have a great control of costs.

If you don't like it, then move to ... uh ... Russia ?

[socialist]

Jeez, you are sucking me back into this fray. I did want to step aside as I feel that my work here is done, but then you play the one card that I have waited so patiently for.

OK, let's explore that favourite card for teachers far and wide to play. First, let us drop the nonsense about if I were to simply observe for a day in a classroom, I would see the teacher's light and bring out my chequebook to give you a raise personally. When my kids were in elementary, both my wife and I spent as much time as our jobs would allow helping out both in class and at the school in general. So, yes, I have been in a classroom, and no, it was not a particularly daunting place.

But, you asked me to teach for a day, not observe. In order for me to go into a class and teach, I would have to go back to university and get my degree in Education. Not a big deal, as that would only take one to two years, depending on which province I am in. And let us face it, a one to two year vacation taking basket weaving would be nice. But, by natural extension of your argument, you are going to have to take care of my job while I am teaching. So now, you are going back to university for five years in which you will spend most of your time curled up in a ball wondering what hit you. So let's say you do somehow muddle through (I have been waiting three or four years by now). Well, hang on, you are still not ready to take my job even for a day. No, I have something called a professional association that requires you work under the mentorship of a senior professional for a couple of years before being able to call yourself a professional. All the while, I am still waiting, ready to go because teachers do not have a professional association (I speak of BC here, but it would not shock me if it were true for the rest of Canada), they only have a union.

So, seven very long years later (and of course this is all fiction because you would have flunked out in the first year), we are ready to switch for the day.

Now, I would hate every minute of it because I would be surrounded by teachers all day long. The kids and the teaching would be easy enough, but the 5.5 hours of non-stop whining by my co-workers would drive me to alcohol.

Meanwhile, across town, you would roll into work at 8:30 and my mean old boss would jump down your throat for being 2 hours late. Then you would would stare in wonder as your co-workers grab a coffee and take it back to their stations around 10. What about recess you would scream at them. Lunch, yup, you can go have lunch. Unless you are behind because you showed up at 8:30, in which case you now have a working lunch. Then the killer. 3:00 pm rolls around and nobody is making a move for their cars. WFT. 4:00, still not moving. Jesus, it is 5 o'clock. What is this, a salt mine? Finally, 5:30 rolls around and people starting packing it up. You are drained. You maybe muddled through the work, but could you do it again tomorrow?

So, yes, I could teach if I were to go back to school, but ask yourself very honestly, could you make the switch that you are talking about.

I enjoyed reading this fairy tale. ROFL!!!

[Pct2017]

A couple of points here:

"You yourself point out that you couldn't stand being a teacher, and that is indeed part of the job."

Actually I said I would not be able to stand being a teacher because it would mean being around teachers for 5.5 hours per day. That would be an unfathomable torture to me.

"A friend of mine quit his job as a lawyer to go back for his Bachelor of Education and he's basically unavailable due to the schedule."

Having a full schedule is totally different from having a difficult schedule.

"Corporate trainers don't teach at the same intensity, with the same energy requirements as classroom teachers that's for sure."

Not sure what corporate trainers have to do with any of this. Where did that one come from?

"The real error is in going down this path to begin with. The fact is that this job is done based on collective bargaining, period. Obviously, they would be paid less if that weren't the case. The idea that economic realities follow some kind of rules of virtue is mostly incorrect. It's the market that drives wages, and if you have a monopoly on the market then you have a great control of costs."

I have read this several times and I still don't have a clue what you are trying to get at. I have read your other posts on this thread and find them generally to be well written with balance, even if they do tend towards the left side of the spectrum. But, what are you trying to say here? Is the sole job of a teacher to partake in collective bargaining? And if public sector wages were driven by the labour market, then our teachers out here in BC would be seeing their wages drop on each contract simply because there are more teachers than there are jobs. I am not saying this would be right, but I am just flummoxed by your statement. And where does the reference to Russia fit in?

[Michael Hardner]

"You yourself point out that you couldn't stand being a teacher, and that is indeed part of the job."

Actually I said I would not be able to stand being a teacher because it would mean being around teachers for 5.5 hours per day. That would be an unfathomable torture to me.

Well, you're actually around students for most of the day not teachers.

But, what are you trying to say here? ... if public sector wages were driven by the labour market, then our teachers out here in BC would be seeing their wages drop on each contract simply because there are more teachers than there are jobs.

Yes - that's what I'm trying to say. Sorry if I was unclear. There's no point in arguing the relative difficulty of the job of teaching, even if I contest some of your points. People aren't paid, generally, for how difficult a job is.

Again, sorry if I was unclear - I'm sometimes rushing when I post these.

[Mighty AC]

Somebody making $75K in BC only pays 20% combined taxes ? That sounds wrong.

I know that the revenue generated from the carbon tax has allowed income and corporate tax rates to be lowered substantially. Apparently, BC residents making up to $120k now pay the lowest rates in Canada.

[socialist]

I know that the revenue generated from the carbon tax has allowed income and corporate tax rates to be lowered substantially. Apparently, BC residents making up to $120k now pay the lowest rates in Canada.

It's all part of the neo-liberal agenda to screw the middles class while giving their corporate buddies a break. BC education has suffered long enouh at the hands of the neo-libs, and you know it MightyAC.

[Pct2017]

I know that the revenue generated from the carbon tax has allowed income and corporate tax rates to be lowered substantially. Apparently, BC residents making up to $120k now pay the lowest rates in Canada.

Not sure what your source of information is, but in BC the corporate rate has remained unchanged since 2008 and sits at 26% when combined with the fed rate. It was 27% prior to that. This is pretty much in the middle of the "have" provinces which range from 25 to 27%. Definitely the maritime provinces and the Territories have higher rates, but obviously fewer corporations to tax. I am no tax expert, but I have never seen a direct link between the carbon tax and corporate tax rates.

As for the $120k tax rate, I am not sure where you are going with that but it is just simply not true. BC is at the low end of income tax rates for all income categories except for very high earners, where they are in the middle of the pack. For instance, if you make less than around $75,000 in BC (what I would call low to middle income), your marginal rate is between 5.06 and 7.70% (this is for the provincial tax only, but the federal is consistent for all provinces and territories). This is slightly more than Ontario (by less than 0.5%) but less than any other province or territory. It is actually around 1/3 of what you would pay in Quebec and about 1/2 of what you would pay in most other provinces/territories.

The top marginal provincial rate of 16.8% for income over $150k is actually the 5th highest out of the 13 provinces/territories. When you specify $120k, BC's marginal rate is the 8th highest, or 6th lowest, depending on your political lens. But most definitely not the lowest.

I don't get why anyone would post something like you did. It took 34 seconds to look up this information. The word "apparently" really should be abolished. Don't be lazy. Look it up next time before wasting everyone's time.

http://www.kpmg.com/Ca/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/PersonalTaxRates/Federal-and-Provincial-Income-Tax-Rates-and-Brackets-andSurtaxes.pdf

Edited April 3, 2014 by Pct2017

[Mighty AC]

I don't get why anyone would post something like you did. It took 34 seconds to look up this information. The word "apparently" really should be abolished. Don't be lazy. Look it up next time before wasting everyone's time.

http://www.kpmg.com/Ca/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/PersonalTaxRates/Federal-and-Provincial-Income-Tax-Rates-and-Brackets-andSurtaxes.pdf

I'm glad you spent 34 seconds looking up the marginal tax rates, but you probably should have taken another few minutes plugging in the numbers. Especially before taking such a pompous and arrogant tone in your post.

The statement I made should be clear enough: individuals in BC earning up to $122,000 pay the lowest tax rates in Canada. Beyond $122K other provinces do have a tax advantage, but since the average Canadian earns $48,250 per year, it's not an issue for most.

Here are the numbers.

Income: $122,000

Province Prov Tax Fed Tax Prov Surtax Total AVG Rate

BC $10,250 $23,530 $0 $33,780 27.69%

Alberta $10,441 $23,530 $0 $33,971 27.84%

Ontario $ 9,906 $23,530 $2,714 $36,150 29.63%

Sask $13,325 $23,500 $0 $36,855 30.21%

​Income: $48,250

Province Prov Tax Fed Tax Prov Surtax Total AVG Rate

BC $ 2,203 $ 5,910 $0 $ 8,114 16.82%

Ontario $ 2,303 $ 5,910 $0 $ 8,213 17.02%

Alberta $ 3,066 $ 5,910 $0 $ 8,967 18.60%

Sask $ 3,738 $ 5,910 $0 $ 9,648 20.00%

Here is a link to the BC Ministry of finance page: http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/tbs/tp/climate/A2.htm

Here is a link to provincial tax calculators, just plug the province name into the web address: http://incometax.calculatorscanada.ca/britishcolumbia

[Mighty AC]

It's all part of the neo-liberal agenda to screw the middles class while giving their corporate buddies a break. BC education has suffered long enouh at the hands of the neo-libs, and you know it MightyAC.

The province is still collecting roughly the same amount in tax revenue. The cash generated by the carbon tax has simply allowed the province to lower income and corporate tax rates while creating an incentive to use fewer fossil fuels. The BC government has promised to balance the budget, hence spending in every sector has been frozen.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Mighty AC