dre Posted March 8, 2014 Report Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry? Of course his view is pro-Russian! It is word for word right out of Putin's press statements. According to dre Russia has done nothing wrong, violated no laws, and is only there to protect the poor Russian speakers, all of whom are desperate to join Russia. How can you possibly say his views are not pro Russian?! If Russia paid people to go on the internet and put their case it would be exactly the same as what he's put here. ROFLMAO. Its not Pro Russia its pro self determination. If you got your way Crimeans would get to make any kind of decision on their own future. Without the presense of Russia troops it would be allowed, and even if it was the results wouldnt be respected. This is evident in Barrack Obamas proposal that Russia leave and new elections be held in the Ukraine. Why doesnt he propose that Russia leaves, and Crimeans are given a UN monitored referendum on their future? The answer is pretty simple... you people would deny their right to self determination whether Russian troops were there or not, because this has nothing to do with the people in Ukraine. Its about both sides fighting over a shiny object. And instead of using whatever influence we have, to make sure a referendum in Crimea is fair and monitored, we are just spouting a bunch of empty rhetoric that will have no effect on the situation there at all. Edited March 8, 2014 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
ASIP Posted March 8, 2014 Report Posted March 8, 2014 ROFLMAO. Its not Pro Russia its pro self determination. If you got your way Crimeans would get to make any kind of decision on their own future. Without the presense of Russia troops it would be allowed, and even if it was the results wouldnt be respected. It has nothing to do to the will of people . Last night Ukrainian MPs, diplomats and journalists suggested to start talking about what Crimea wants to the new Crimean "PM" Aksenov through a direct tV bridge. They told, "A month before we had oppressive regime in Ukraine, but Crimeans were OK within Ukraine. Now we have a chance to change our country for better, and all over sudden, Crimean people want separation, let's talk. What are the problems? How does Ukraine can help?". He refused to discuss any problems. Because he's a puppet of Putin. He is not interested in people of Crimea, he wants to be a senior servant of occupants. Putin ordered to held referendum to have a formal pretext (in his view) for annexation of Crimea. The "referendum" will be held and vast majority of population will "vote" for joining Russia. The two question formulated so, that there is no option for status quo. There is no boxes for answer "No". The form is extremely easy to make "Yes" even somebody leaves the boxes empty. A fair referendum is possible only if Russia brings their soldiers back to barracks, Aksenov's thugs are removed from streets and police return, international observers are present. From yesterday's TV bridge it is obvious that Ukraine is ready for huge concessions for Crimea to keep it. But this won't happen. Putin has made his mind. Nobody can monitor the process. A UN envoy has been expelled from Crimea, a delegation from Europe is denied entry. Canada's actions are a gold standard so far. If the rest of G7 countries followed Canadian principled approach, Putin would back up. Quote
Wilber Posted March 8, 2014 Report Posted March 8, 2014 dre, by forcing a referendum on two weeks notice the clear intent is to make sure that it cannot be made fair or monitored Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
dre Posted March 9, 2014 Report Posted March 9, 2014 A fair referendum is possible only if Russia brings their soldiers back to barracks, Aksenov's thugs are removed from streets and police return, international observers are present. Even if Russian troops all left, there would be no fair referendum. THe position of the Ukraine is that any such referendum is illegitimate. And instead of the west pushing for a fair referendum, they are proposing a national election instead... as if that solves anything for people in Crimea. We should be pushing Russia to withdraw and allow a monitored referendum on Crimeas future but we are not. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
ASIP Posted March 9, 2014 Report Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I've just watched a press conference of a representative of Crimean parliament of March 6, 2014. They already have a law that Crimea is a part of Russia, the only legal army on the Crimean soil is Russian Army, and Ukrainian army are illegal occupants. They do not recognize Ukrainian government in Kiev. Several journalists asked "If you have already decided to leave Ukraine, why do you need a referendum?" The answer was like just in case. This is a true story looking like a theater of nonsense. I have a video clip. This must be on BBC. This is just a typical example how Putin-Goebbels brain washing machine works. Putin is a sick man, he thinks nobody can see through his tricks. Edited March 9, 2014 by ASIP Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Posted March 9, 2014 Fun stuff, but American 2014 & 2016 candidate's and voters' eyes would have glossed over long before any of these details were highlighted, and very few would even care after that. No impact on the U.S. elections... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted March 9, 2014 Report Posted March 9, 2014 Fun stuff, but American 2014 & 2016 candidate's and voters' eyes would have glossed over long before any of these details were highlighted, and very few would even care after that. No impact on the U.S. elections... Oh I imagine it will factor in. The Ukraine will be partitioned at that point, and chicken-hawks will blame Obama and the democrats. The situation in the Ukraine will become one of the meaningless culture war issues many Americans are obsessed with.... like abortion, the war on christmas, etc. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Posted March 9, 2014 Oh I imagine it will factor in. The Ukraine will be partitioned at that point, and chicken-hawks will blame Obama and the democrats. The situation in the Ukraine will become one of the meaningless culture war issues many Americans are obsessed with.... like abortion, the war on christmas, etc. I think not, but we can always count on our friends "north of the border" to worry for us. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Posted March 9, 2014 ROFLMAO. Its not Pro Russia its pro self determination. It's interesting that no one on the earth seems to have the same level of understand you do about the desperate need of the poor, downtrodden Crimeans to breath the free air of Russia. But clearly, you have special insights no western government enjoys, and of course, unlike any other western government you have a deep and abiding interest in self determination. Those evil Swedes and Swiss only care about crushing the miserably oppressed Crimeans! I cannot understand why you haven't been put up for a Nobel prize yet. This is evident in Barrack Obamas proposal that Russia leave and new elections be held in the Ukraine. Why doesnt he propose that Russia leaves, and Crimeans are given a UN monitored referendum on their future? Well, I can only speculate, of course. I'm presuming its because he's seen through the nonsense Russia has put out about Crimeans wanting to join Russia - just as every other western government has seen through it. Let's not give them too much credit, though. I mean, given there's never been any move to separate Crimea from Ukraine prior to the last month, this wasn't too difficult for anyone with even passing familiarity of the situation to discern. Plus, the idea that a people can hold a legitimate referendum within a week on whether to join a neighbor which has just invaded and put thousands of armed men in the streets and in their parliament is laughable to begin with. No one with any intelligence would even take such a suggestion seriously. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Topaz Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 Listening to a radio program, they said both Rick Perry and Jeb Bush will probably run for Prez. If Bush gets in, and if he follows his dad and bro., the US will be a war under him, the only question is, which country. Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 I've just watched a press conference of a representative of Crimean parliament of March 6, 2014. They already have a law that Crimea is a part of Russia, the only legal army on the Crimean soil is Russian Army, and Ukrainian army are illegal occupants. They do not recognize Ukrainian government in Kiev. Several journalists asked "If you have already decided to leave Ukraine, why do you need a referendum?" It was to confirm that the unanimous vote in parliament coincides with the will of the Crimean people. That's an extra layer of democracy that is rarely seen. Over 90% voted in favour of joining Russia. Quote
-TSS- Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Even though international politics doesn't affect very much Americans' voting-decisions the way how Putin is making Obama looking like a novice just can't hurt the Democrats chances in this year's mid-term. In two years time during the next Presidential election the Ukraine crisis will be over and forgotten. Or not, in the worst case-scenario Ukraine is developing into a country like Somalia when it comes to division. Quote
Argus Posted March 30, 2014 Author Report Posted March 30, 2014 It was to confirm that the unanimous vote in parliament coincides with the will of the Crimean people. That's an extra layer of democracy that is rarely seen. Over 90% voted in favour of joining Russia. North Korea is much more democratic. Why Kim Jong Un got 100% of the vote! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Listening to a radio program, they said both Rick Perry and Jeb Bush will probably run for Prez. If Bush gets in, and if he follows his dad and bro., the US will be a war under him, the only question is, which country. There will be a war no matter who gets into power. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Listening to a radio program, they said both Rick Perry and Jeb Bush will probably run for Prez. If Bush gets in, and if he follows his dad and bro., the US will be a war under him, the only question is, which country. Presidents Clinton and Obama were/are not Bush relatives, yet there was war "under' them. Ditto Chretien, Martin, and Harper, also not Bush brothers. Edited March 30, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Do you happen to recall the little word Chretien had for Bush regarding Iraq? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Do you happen to recall the little word Chretien had for Bush regarding Iraq? Yes..."Off - Topic". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Presidents Clinton and Obama were/are not Bush relatives, yet there was war "under' them. Ditto Chretien, Martin, and Harper, also not Bush brothers. And your comment wasn't off topic? Quote
GostHacked Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Yes..."Off - Topic". You want to bring up Canada? Then it is on topic. Unless you admit that what you are posting is not on topic and a violation of the rules. Rules which you have thrown in other members faces regularly. Edited March 31, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
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