Should Stephen Harper resign?

[On Guard for Thee]

Thsi vetern thing is getting over blown, I see that the vet protest was put toigterh by rthge PS union, and they know how to exploits stuff better then anybody. And the vets that aRe saying they are going to get every soldier and vet to vote against the government, better be carefull what they wish for. If it was'nt for harper more of these vets would have come home in a bag. Harper has done more for the military then any other PM.

Apparently the vets don't think it's oberblown. Fantino made a complete ass of himself in front of a tv camera, hos stupid was that? And how did Harper save anyone from coming home in a bag?

[jacee]

Think about it for a while. You can't be that daft.

You made the claim. Support it.

Resorting to immature personal attacks tells me you can't.

.

[PIK]

Apparently the vets don't think it's oberblown. Fantino made a complete ass of himself in front of a tv camera, hos stupid was that? And how did Harper save anyone from coming home in

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23214-ptsd-and-the-military/page-5

#72.

And harper went out and got then the proper equiptment, they showed up in itilis(sp) jeeps and ended it in amoured vehicles and tanks brought home in our own globemasters and not on some rented piece of russian junk.

[On Guard for Thee]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23214-ptsd-and-the-military/page-5

#72.

And harper went out and got then the proper equiptment, they showed up in itilis(sp) jeeps and ended it in amoured vehicles and tanks brought home in our own globemasters and not on some rented piece of russian junk.

And C-117's has what to do with how vets feel they are being let down by the current government?

[jacee]

Conservatives support the military, yes? Well, no.

[On Guard for Thee]

Here's a reason why I think WE must resign Herr Harper. Take a little peruse of this so called, and I have to snicker "fair elections act" Under it, the CEO cannot go to schools and give a talk to students about why they should vote and of course how to do so. Is there something wrong with trying to convince, in a non partisan way, our young people to get involved and excercise their democratic right? Well there is an obvious answer unless you are a Harper conservative and know that young people won't vote for you. I think we are seeing the groundwork being laid for another version of Robocalls come 2015.

[jacee]

Here's a reason why I think WE must resign Herr Harper. Take a little peruse of this so called, and I have to snicker "fair elections act"

...

I think we are seeing the groundwork being laid for another version of Robocalls come 2015.

I think you're right, and it looks like the chief electoral officer agrees:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/story.html?id=9477383

Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand on Thursday lashed out at the Conservative governments proposed changes to the elections law, saying the bill would take the referee off the ice and could make it harder for some voters to cast ballots.

Mayrand says he was not particularly worried that the legislation would see the commissioner moved to the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions at the Department of Justice, but was concerned that the commissioners investigative powers were not increased, as he had suggested in a report last year.

What worries me, I must say, is whether the commissioner will get the tool box he needs to do his job and Im afraid that I dont see it in the act that is currently written, Mayrand said.

There is no enhancement of transparency of political parties in the new legislation. I believe the commissioner doesnt get the authority to compel witnesses.

Edited February 10, 2014 by jacee

[Keepitsimple]

I think you're right, and it looks like the chief electoral officer agrees:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/story.html?id=9477383

Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand on Thursday lashed out at the Conservative governments proposed changes to the elections law, saying the bill would take the referee off the ice and could make it harder for some voters to cast ballots.

It's seriously open to debate as to whether Mayrand is partisan or not - but here are the comments from Jean Pierre Kingsley - the previous head of Elections Canada - courtesy of the CBC - no fans of the Conservatives:

Jean-Pierre Kingsley, the former head of Elections Canada, calls the government's proposed fair elections act "overall, a good bill" and gives it a solid grade of "A–."

Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-reform-bill-gets-an-a-minus-from-ex-election-chief-1.2523345

Edited February 10, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[waldo]

if it's such a great bill Simple... why wasn't Elections Canada formally consulted... why did Harper Conservatives not allow any discussion/debate of the bill?

[PIK]

And C-117's has what to do with how vets feel they are being let down by the current government?

The thing is some vets want all soldiers to vote against harper and that means a liberal or NDP government, then what happens to the military. Becarefull what you wish for time.

[PIK]

PIK, before blaming the unions as the Tories are stop and think about the vets. Some of therm would have to travel 5 hours to the closest centre and at age 80+ going down 401, in Ontario, in the wintertime, like this winter would be too much for them. To think, that a government would make these cuts to make themselves look good for the next election, is way more a disgrace than ANY other government could do. The vets are sacred cows, so to speak, and governments don't do the things they do and get away with it from the public. The vets that went to Ottawa, are Conservative supporters, well they WERE, they voting against them so the Conservative could ended up like Mulroney's bunch and have 2 Mps standing after the election.

After taking a few days to listen to boths sides, alot of vets have never been to a centre before, no nbeed ,just pick up the phone and they got the help they needed. And the sacred cow thingy, give me a break before harper came along nobody gave a crap about vets or even the military. What is really pathetic is the left using these soldiers as props when they never cared before.

[jacee]

After taking a few days to listen to boths sides, alot of vets have never been to a centre before, no nbeed ,just pick up the phone and they got the help they needed. And the sacred cow thingy, give me a break before harper came along nobody gave a crap about vets or even the military.

That's just not true!!!

Vets were well taken care of until Harper came along!

Harper's all for the 'glory' of war, and the lucrative contracts for his political funders, but wants to ignore the toll it takes on men and women's physical and mental health.

.

[On Guard for Thee]

if it's such a great bill Simple... why wasn't Elections Canada formally consulted... why did Harper Conservatives not allow any discussion/debate of the bill?

Both very appropriate questions. Polievre (sp) talks, over and over again in his robot style talking points about how he met with the CEO and how they chatted for an hour or so and he holds that up as though that was a proper consultation. The fact there was no formal presentation of a working copy of the bill is a fact he hopes we won't understand the signifigance of. I listened to power and politics today and the aforementioned minister was caught in two bald faced lies. The first was to try and re-write the comment he made about the CEO wearing a "team shirt" and the other was about what powers the act stripped from the CEO. I think we'll see robocalls 2.0 coming up in 2015.

[jacee]

Both very appropriate questions. Polievre (sp) talks, over and over again in his robot style talking points about how he met with the CEO and how they chatted for an hour or so and he holds that up as though that was a proper consultation. The fact there was no formal presentation of a working copy of the bill is a fact he hopes we won't understand the signifigance of. I listened to power and politics today and the aforementioned minister was caught in two bald faced lies. The first was to try and re-write the comment he made about the CEO wearing a "team shirt" and the other was about what powers the act stripped from the CEO. I think we'll see robocalls 2.0 coming up in 2015.

It's pretty clear Harper's doing everything he can to make sure he can robo-rig the next election too!

Such hypocrites they are.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's pretty clear Harper's doing everything he can to make sure he can robo-rig the next election too!

Such hypocrites they are.

It's a frightening thought but it's hard to ignore. It certainly seems to me that the people who would be targeted by this bill would likely be the people who would not vote for Harper. That's entirely speculation on my part, but stealing anybody's vote is, as far as I know, illegal. I hope one of Harper's minions phones me next election day to stear me to a phony poll. I'll be broadcasting from atop the flagpole on the hill.

[jacee]

It's a frightening thought but it's hard to ignore. It certainly seems to me that the people who would be targeted by this bill would likely be the people who would not vote for Harper. That's entirely speculation on my part, but stealing anybody's vote is, as far as I know, illegal. I hope one of Harper's minions phones me next election day to stear me to a phony poll. I'll be broadcasting from atop the flagpole on the hill.

You speculate correctly.

And it appears that Harper's trying to push this non-reform bill through before the truth comes out in court.

/michael-sona-robocalls-elections-canada

Move over Senate scandal: Pierre Poutine and the robocalls are back in 2014.

Former Conservative staffer Michael Sona's trial is scheduled to begin this June.

...

The calls fraudulently represented Elections Canada, and many of the people who received them told investigators they had previously identified themselves as Liberal supporters to Conservative Party callers.

Sona, who so far is the only person charged in the affair, faces up to five years in prison and fines of up to $5,000.

Andrew Prescott, the deputy manager for the Guelph campaign, has been given immunity from prosecution in exchange for his testimony.

Sona insists he is innocent. In his first interview last October, Sona told The Huffington Post Canada he was thrown under the bus by party officials looking for someone to blame after the robocall story appeared in the media.

[PIK]

That's just not true!!!

Vets were well taken care of until Harper came along!

Harper's all for the 'glory' of war, and the lucrative contracts for his political funders, but wants to ignore the toll it takes on men and women's physical and mental health.

.

Come on, nobody gave a shit about the military and it's soldiers untill harper came along. The support for families , all the new equiptment and yes looking after the vets. But when you have the PSAC running the protest you dam well know it is going to get blown out of porportion. Actually chretien treated the soldiers with total disrespect, sending them into harms way knowing thet they were not equipt properly and soldiers died because of that. Mulrooney had big promises and he did come thru either and the way chretien treated the airbourne unit was disgracefull. Medac pocket is another example at how chretien and the liberals despised the military. So jacee read up on the history before YOU try and use the troops for political purposes.So canada getting on side with the military is because of harper, same with the pride and winning in the olympics in vancouver and russia, all thatnks to the government of stephen harper.

http://www.queensu.ca/dms/working_papers/Civ-Mil%20Boundaries%20of%20Ethics%20and%20Cdn%20Mil%20Operations.pdf

[waldo]

Come on, nobody gave a shit about the military and it's soldiers untill harper came along.

get off your talking point express PIK!

Conservatives support the military, yes? Well, no

Ottawa’s treatment of veterans has latterly moved beyond shoddy, to disgraceful and shocking. Plans to purchase military hardware – planes, ships, trucks, helicopters, the works – are a ramshackle, disjointed mess, with no improvement in sight, despite an ostensibly “new” procurement process unveiled Wednesday. If anything, the revamped system introduces new layers of bureaucracy, and will create further delays.

How much longer can that rhetoric have any heft, even among those barely paying attention, given the reality of broken submarines, Inuit Rangers wielding First World War rifles, aircraft held together with chewing gum and baler twine, shuttered veterans offices, and damaged soldiers committing suicide?

The military proved a handy early symbol for a government determined to own the patriotic vote. Some worthwhile early investments were made. But the last big win, the C-17 purchase, was years ago. Fantino’s fight with veterans was as bizarre as it was ugly. The Conservatives can only hope it doesn’t prove to be one of those watershed moments that turns a tide, and is impossible to reverse.

[On Guard for Thee]

Come on, nobody gave a shit about the military and it's soldiers untill harper came along. The support for families , all the new equiptment and yes looking after the vets. But when you have the PSAC running the protest you dam well know it is going to get blown out of porportion. Actually chretien treated the soldiers with total disrespect, sending them into harms way knowing thet they were not equipt properly and soldiers died because of that. Mulrooney had big promises and he did come thru either and the way chretien treated the airbourne unit was disgracefull. Medac pocket is another example at how chretien and the liberals despised the military. So jacee read up on the history before YOU try and use the troops for political purposes.So canada getting on side with the military is because of harper, same with the pride and winning in the olympics in vancouver and russia, all thatnks to the government of stephen harper.

http://www.queensu.ca/dms/working_papers/Civ-Mil%20Boundaries%20of%20Ethics%20and%20Cdn%20Mil%20Operations.pdf

In light of all that, how do you excuse Fantino and the 4 billion dollar cut the current budget brings to the military if Harper's people are so pro military. The good news, in my opinion with regards to military cuts is I would imagine it seals the fate of the F35. Thank you Mr. Flaherty, we can't, nor need that turkey.

[Topaz]

PIK, I don't remember ever a vet saying he sent his party card back to the PM and told him were HE could STICK IT!!! That is the very words the Vet from Nova Scotia said today and the Tories are losing their own supporters.

[waldo]

PIK!!! Don't Harper Conservatives support the troops?

Federal budget sends Canadian military’s equipment buying plan into limbo; new fighter jets likely off the table

if nothing else, perhaps fiscal reality will drive the Canadian Forces to proper a shifted prioritization on procurement choices.

[Smallc]

The money was moved, not taken.DND can't spend its entire budget, and won't be able to for the foreseeable future, so, why give them the money just to take it back?

[PIK]

PIK!!! Don't Harper Conservatives support the troops?

Federal budget sends Canadian military’s equipment buying plan into limbo; new fighter jets likely off the table

if nothing else, perhaps fiscal reality will drive the Canadian Forces to proper a shifted prioritization on procurement choices.

How much equiptment did the forces have when harper took over compared to today??? And what about the 30% cuts to the military by chretien, nobody seem to care back then. IMO Chretien was trying to kill the forces by cutting so much, , we would not be able to afford to ever build them up again. Chretien depised the military. When it comes to military hardware nobody comes close to what harper did. Nice try waldo.

Edited February 12, 2014 by PIK

[waldo]

How much equiptment did the forces have when harper took over compared to today??? And what about the 30% cuts to the military by chretien, nobody seem to care back then. IMO Chretien was trying to kill the forces by cutting so much, , we would not be able to afford to ever build them up again. Chretien depised the military. When it comes to military hardware nobody comes close to what harper did. Nice try waldo.

read the linked article PIK..... and itemize that equipment PIK. Get off your talking point... and itemize that equipment you claim Harper Conservatives funded procurement for. We've had this topic discussed already and even the MIA military man, Derek L, admitted that the major items were simply Harper Conservatives continuing program initiatives launched by the Liberal party.

[waldo]

The money was moved, not taken.DND can't spend its entire budget, and won't be able to for the foreseeable future, so, why give them the money just to take it back?

"moved money"! Even if you accept that convenient talking point, clearly... optics mean more to Harper Conservatives than actually following through on the support commitments made by Harper Conservatives. Over the prior two budgets, before the "moved money", Harper Conservatives have cut $2.1 Billion from the Canadian military. Of the much ballyhooed promises for new ships, new jets, new search & rescue equipment, etc., how much actual money has been appropriated... has been paid out?

optics, right? $2.1 Billion cuts and $3.1 Billion "moved"...

The badly needed new equipment on the Canadian military's shopping list may end up becoming a wish list over the next three years after Tuesday's federal budget pushed $3.1 billion in planned capital spending off into the distant future.

The reallocation and delay outlined in Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's fiscal plan puts in writing a contraction in military spending that has been evident in defence circles for a number of years -- and which the Conservatives have been keen to play down.

It's partly a reflection of the government's failure so far to deliver long-promised new ships, search planes, helicopters and trucks, but it's also a significant part of a concerted Conservative campaign to outflank the deficit in the run-up to the 2015 election.

National Defence will continue to feel the squeeze as the Conservatives strive to keep the books balanced -- without generating new revenues -- in order to finance long-promised 2015 campaign goodies like income splitting, said Dave Perry, a professor at Carleton University and a researcher with the Conference of Defence Associations.

"If you are making all of these moves to restrain federal spending writ large, cut taxes and spend money on other programs, I don't see a big windfall coming for the military post-2015," Perry said.

"I just don't see how it can work given the political parameters they've outlined."

Deferring capital spending will erode the buying power of projects that have already been announced, forcing the military to either make do with fewer ships, planes and vehicles, or settle for less sophisticated gear, he added.

The replacement of the country's aging jet fighters, which National Defence was supposed to start spending on next year, will likely be the most high-profile victim of the reallocation.