USA Flies Through China Airspace

[bush_cheney2004]

Good Eye.....it does look due North of the Black Sea.....

Maybe the Chinese have also copied the US Navy's MK88 Mod 2 fire control system for SLBMs by now. It is only about 40 years old.

[Guest Derek L]

Maybe the Chinese have also copied the US Navy's MK88 Mod 2 fire control system for SLBMs by now. It is only about 40 years old.

You never know........but back in the 80s, they lost their first Boomer conducting missile (launching) work-ups......oops

[WWWTT]

Ok back to the original thread topic here.

China is starting to warn the US over these security air space designations or whatever they are called.

Here's my prediction, the US backs down and this issue will evaporate from western media.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/12/18/340706/us-warned-against-china-sea-meddling/

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[TimG]

Here's my prediction, the US backs down and this issue will evaporate from western media.

Perhaps - Obama has been such a screw up in the Middle East that is it possible that he will betray the US allies in Asia as well. I hope it does not come to that because peace depends on a strong US presence to counter balance China's desire to steal territory from its neighbors. Edited December 19, 2013 by TimG

[socialist]

Perhaps - Obama has been such a screw up in the Middle East that is it possible that he will betray the US allies in Asia as well. I hope it does not come to that because peace depends on a strong US presence to counter balance China's desire to steal territory from its neighbors.

Obama has brought the Chinese to where he wants them. I become more impressed by Obama's tactical prowess every day.

[Guest Derek L]

Ok back to the original thread topic here.

China is starting to warn the US over these security air space designations or whatever they are called.

Here's my prediction, the US backs down and this issue will evaporate from western media.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/12/18/340706/us-warned-against-china-sea-meddling/

WWWTT

Your prediction, like the Chinese “warning”, is nothing but hot air, for one simple reason…….The Chinese do not have the sustained capabilities to police their new air defence zone……..

[bush_cheney2004]

Your prediction, like the Chinese “warning”, is nothing but hot air, for one simple reason…….The Chinese do not have the sustained capabilities to police their new air defence zone……..

Yes, it is one thing to copy the American war toys, but quite another to use them and make it stick.

[Guest Derek L]

Yes, it is one thing to copy the American Russian war toys, but quite another to use them and make it stick.

Exactly, just as the Soviets found out, expeditionary naval warfare has a steep learning curve…….A last, China within it’s own region may be a big fish, well being nearly unmatched on land, but once they venture beyond their shores, the pond deepens substantially and is full of predatory fish…..

[bush_cheney2004]

Exactly, just as the Soviets found out, expeditionary naval warfare has a steep learning curve…….A last, China within it’s own region may be a big fish, well being nearly unmatched on land, but once they venture beyond their shores, the pond deepens substantially and is full of predatory fish…..

There is no substitute for experience. Chinese developed / copies of Russian kit have not been very impressive to date. The Americans are much better practiced at such things. Chinese "gunboat diplomacy" is not credible at this point.

[Guest Derek L]

There is no substitute for experience. Chinese developed / copies of Russian kit have not been very impressive to date. The Americans are much better practiced at such things. Chinese "gunboat diplomacy" is not credible at this point.

Exactly, they still can’t quite reverse-engineer a simple 70s era turbofan yet……..

[bush_cheney2004]

Exactly, they still can’t quite reverse-engineer a simple 70s era turbofan yet……..

That's why China still buys western made airliners ! Can't wait to see the new Comac 900 series (with foreign made engines) at the airport. However, China does make nice cheap toy models of western aircraft.

[Bonam]

That's why China still buys western made airliners ! Can't wait to see the new Comac 900 series (with foreign made engines) at the airport. However, China does make nice cheap toy models of western aircraft.

It may be fun to poke fun at China but that only breeds a sense of complacency. The US may be on top now, but other countries are rising quickly while the US stagnates. Right up until the day it happened, the Romans didn't think that mighty Rome could fall to a bunch of ignorant barbarians. Just as you seem to think that America's technological supremacy is assured, right up until the day that some other country will overtake it.

[bush_cheney2004]

It may be fun to poke fun at China but that only breeds a sense of complacency. The US may be on top now, but other countries are rising quickly while the US stagnates. Right up until the day it happened, the Romans didn't think that mighty Rome could fall to a bunch of ignorant barbarians. Just as you seem to think that America's technological supremacy is assured, right up until the day that some other country will overtake it.

I never claimed any such long term supremacy, and if the U.S. lasts as long as "mighty Rome" then it will have been very successful indeed. Smart Americans come from all over the world, including China, which is the real secret to America's success.

Then there is this:

U.S. colleges draw record foreigners

...Overall, the number of international students in U.S. institutions increased by about 7% last year to nearly 820,000. The largest group came from China, which sent about 236,000 students, nearly double the number of students from India, the second-largest group.

...Several countries -- including Iran, Brazil and Kuwait -- increased their number of students in the U.S. by at least 20%, but "most of the growth was fueled by the undergraduate Chinese students," said Rajika Bhandari, deputy vice president for research and evaluation at the Institute of International Education.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/nov/11/local/la-me-foreign-students-20131111

Edited December 20, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

I never claimed any such long term supremacy, and if the U.S. lasts as long as "mighty Rome" then it will have been very successful indeed. Smart Americans come from all over the world, including China, which is the real secret to America's success.

Then there is this:

U.S. colleges draw record foreigners

...Overall, the number of international students in U.S. institutions increased by about 7% last year to nearly 820,000. The largest group came from China, which sent about 236,000 students, nearly double the number of students from India, the second-largest group.

...Several countries -- including Iran, Brazil and Kuwait -- increased their number of students in the U.S. by at least 20%, but "most of the growth was fueled by the undergraduate Chinese students," said Rajika Bhandari, deputy vice president for research and evaluation at the Institute of International Education.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/nov/11/local/la-me-foreign-students-20131111

And then after giving these students a great education, the US sends most of them back to their home countries rather than keeping them around, due to the crapiness of its immigration system.

[bush_cheney2004]

And then after giving these students a great education, the US sends most of them back to their home countries rather than keeping them around, due to the crapiness of its immigration system.

More people emigrate to the U.S. each year than nearly all other nations combined (as of 2006). About 47 million Americans were not born in the U.S.A. China has long recognized what it has to do to to elevate a largely poor and agrarian populace to modern development. Heck, the reason I went to China back in the 90's was to complete technology transfer for some very basic manufacturing and quality assurance concepts.

[WWWTT]

First seen this on CCTV4.

http://ca.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7osieLlSrTEAO0QXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnZlZnRlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=13quke7l0/EXP=1387915426/**http%3a//japandailypress.com/pm-abe-says-its-his-historic-mission-to-change-japans-constitution-1333768/

Apparently, China is claiming that Japan is acting as the aggressor here.

And knowing their history, can't blame China for protecting their self interest.

Here's another good link!

http://on.rt.com/qghi18

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[TimG]

Apparently, China is claiming that Japan is acting as the aggressor here.

China makes all kinds of absurd claims (e.g. Taiwan is not an independent country). That does not mean they have any merit. The change to the Japanese constitution is necessary to allow Japan to build military alliances because the current constitution does not allow Japan to provide military assistance if an ally is attacked. These alliances are necessary given how aggressive China has become.

And knowing their history, can't blame China for protecting their self interest.

Chinese interests are in peace with its neighbors by accepting the post-WW2 boundaries. But China is not defending its "interests" - it is trying to control a restless population which have been taught an extremely distorted version of history. Edited December 24, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

Oh no sorry TimG, I provided a link that clearly shows how a very popular Japanese PM is trying to change their 1947 instated constitutional to start a military buildup!

Lets stick with the facts here.

If Japan is going to start changing around the rules, then don't you think that China is going to respond????

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Chinese interests are in peace with its neighbors by accepting the post-WW2 boundaries. But China is not defending its "interests" - it is trying to control a restless population which have been taught an extremely distorted version of history.

Where's the link?

WWWTT

[TimG]

Oh no sorry TimG, I provided a link that clearly shows how a very popular Japanese PM is trying to change their 1947 instated constitutional to start a military buildup!

Where did I dispute that? I just gave you the reason for the change.

If Japan is going to start changing around the rules, then don't you think that China is going to respond????

Lets be clear: China is the aggressor here. China is the one annexing islands belonging to Viet Nam and the Philippines. China is one encroaching on territory controlled by Japan. If China had just left the status quo alone there would be no talk of "rearming" Japan.

It is easy to get lost in the the tit for tat "provocations" in the these disputes which is why it is very important to go back to what originally started it.

China has made it very clear that when it says "peaceful rise" what it means is "bully its neighbors until it gets what it wants". Japan wants to make it clear that it will not be bullied and that it is willing to help its neighbors that face such bullying (something that the current constitution prohibits). I don't see any issue with this.

Edited December 24, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

China makes all kinds of absurd claims (e.g. Taiwan is not an independent country). That does not mean they have any merit.

You sure about that?

http://ca.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7pdVC7pSLigAtxgXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByamlqaW9mBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=11udbh720/EXP=1387953109/**http%3a//www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35855.htm

WWWTT

[TimG]

You sure about that?

I apologize for assuming that you had even the most basic knowledge of the history and politics of the region. If you did have that knowledge you would have known that Taiwan is not officially recognized as a country because China threatens retaliation any nation that officially recognizes Taiwan. However, Taiwan is a defacto independent nation no matter what China says because no law passed in Beijing has any legal force in Taipei.

I choose this as an example of how China's claims are often completely disconnected from reality.

Edited December 24, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

I choose this as an example of how China's claims are often completely disconnected from reality.

If you want me to take you serious then provide a link.

Until then, as far as I'm concerned, you have an unsubstantiated opinion!

WWWTT

[TimG]

If you want me to take you serious then provide a link.

A link to what exactly? If you think that I have made a statement that you believe to be wrong then you have to indicate what that is and your basis for believing it is wrong. Demanding links with no context is sillyness. Expecting links for every statement is absurd.

Here is some background on Taiwan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

The People's Republic of China (PRC) claims that the Republic of China government is illegitimate, referring to it as the "Taiwan Authority". The ROC, however, with its own constitution, independently elected president and armed forces, continues to view itself as a sovereign state. The present territory of the state has never been controlled by the PRC

Which should establish that China makes claims which have no connection to reality so claims by China don't mean much. Edited December 25, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

A link to what exactly? If you think that I have made a statement that you believe to be wrong then you have to indicate what that is and your basis for believing it is wrong. Demanding links with no context is sillyness. Expecting links for every statement is absurd.

Here is some background on Taiwan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Which should establish that China makes claims which have no connection to reality so claims by China don't mean much.

Did you read your link?

Martial law, declared on Taiwan in May 1949,^[60] continued to be in effect after the central government relocated to Taiwan. It was not repealed until 1987,^[60] and was used as a way to suppress the political opposition in the intervening years.^[61] During the White Terror, as the period is known, 140,000 people were imprisoned or executed for being perceived as anti-KMT or pro-Communist.^[62] Many citizens were arrested, tortured, imprisoned and executed for their real or perceived link to the Communists. Since these people were mainly from the intellectual and social elite, an entire generation of political and social leaders was decimated. It was not until 2008 that a public apology was made for those actions. No form of restitution or compensation has been made as of 2010.^[63]

WWWTT