the strange love affair: france, saudi and israel

[Rue]

You are in no position to tell Jews to abandon tribalism until you apply that call to all humans equally including Muslims and your own tribe-the one you refuse to admit being a member of.

Bud this notion of only singling out one "tribe" and lecturing it to abandon itself while hiding your tribal identity and advocating other tribes can retain their tribalism just not Jews speaks for itself in terms of absurdity.

Get something clear Bud-in my world I loath religions. I loath having to defend what I was born. I loath the fact I was born into a legacy where to prevent extinction we had to create our own country. In my ideal world there would be no countries based on ethnic nationality.

People precisely like you Bud gave me no choice.

Get this even clearer Bud-being righteous, being good, its all b.s. People like me were born having to defend the innocent. We did not ask for it. We are born into it. It did not begin nor can it end with us. We are nothing. All we do is clean up the mess.

You mistake me as someone who can have feelings about being what I am. Do not mistake pride as I state it as a feeling. It is not. It is a practical reality-it is required to maintain existence. It is not false pride-there is no arrogance in it. It is in fact humility-it is the realization that everything I have had to fight for-the right to live in freedom

is ultimately an illusion.

Make no mistake Bud, you do not understand me, what I have lived through and why I know you are more dangerous to Arab peoples and Palestinians then you think I am.

I know you Bud. I know of those just like you-they can not see anything but their own reflection in the eyes of others.

If they can not see that reflection they panic. If people do not reflect back your words-you panic.

Oh I know you Bud. I see people like you hide behind children who are used as your warriors. I have seen people like you use children, cripples, people with down's syndrome, pregnant women, to fight your battles.

I know you Bud and I feel nothing for you. Make no mistake of that. I can be so detached and lifeless in what I might have to do you will never understand it Bud but this I guarantee you-unlike you I know the cry of a child...I know the cry of a mother whose child was snatched from her by Hamas or Fatah Hawks-I know the sound of someone sitting missing a leg and arm and slowly bleeding to death-I know the sound of shells-I know the smell of skin smouldering as white phosphorous burns through it-I know the sound of people chanting and saluting a Hitler salute as they call for the extermination of people they think they know and have never met-I know the sounds of some fat middle aged man who prays to Allah to wipe out with violence his alleged enemy and calls himself righteous and always has time between prayers to have sex with children.

I know a lot of things Bud. I know of ultra orthodox Jews who have spit in my face calling me evil, I know of hateful

extremists in the name of the Old Testament who call me an enemy of Israel, I know of Israelis and Arabs who I have sat with and had the same Turkish coffee and bitter taste in our mouths.

I know a lot of things Bud and that is that I know sweet phack all why people would kill each other over a piece of dirt and use the name of their God to do it.

I know the name of the pogroms that wiped my family out and the gas chambers that got others.

I know the names of the Arabs who donated land to the kibbutz I worked on.

I know the names of Arabs who fought in the IDF and others who were in the PLO and denounced terrorism and worked with me on volunteer projects.

I know a lot Bud-enough to know I know nothing and in the grand scheme of things all that matters is Palestinians and Israelis, Jews, Muslims and Christians, everyone not just in the Middle East but on this planet, will have to evolve past our primal urges if the next generation is to have any hope.

I know enough to know Zionism is not completed until their is peace with the Arab peoples. I know enough to know your wish that there is no Jewish state is no more likely to happen than Sharia law nations will cease being Muslim and the UK will cease being Anglican and the Vatican City Catholic.

I know enough to know that the Jews you single out remind you of everything you hate in yourself and can't reconcile.

Bud-hear me clear-I am the sound of the wind that drives the sand in the deserts of the Negev and Syria.

I am the shadow that comes each night when unemployed Palestinians emerge to smoke hash, opium, drink, beat their dogs and children. I am the Israeli who smashes his car driving to fast while he's drinking and who beats his wife. I am the doctor either Muslim or Jew who spends all his time on his feet tending to people who can not pay him.

I am the old man with the tattoo of numbers who you do not want to exist and whose eyes remind me

of the scream of my family.

I am a lot of things Bud, but nothing you will ever understand. I stand right in front of you and you can not see me.

You save your lectures Bud as to me needing to cease being. I was never alive Bud and that you can't grasp.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

Oh I know you Bud. I see people like you hide behind children who are used as your warriors. I have seen people like you use children, cripples, people with down's syndrome, pregnant women, to fight your battles.

well, there you have it. you must really know me.

when a person is so out to lunch in their thought process, they're best not to be engaged. you're so ridiculous that, at this point, even noticing your posts on this forum seems like a waste. i doubt i'll be able to direct any more posts towards you after this.

Edited November 25, 2013 by bud

[Army Guy]

And there you have it folks, Bud is hosting the surrender flag, the war is finally over....or is it stayed tuned for the next round, when we find out out.... can he resist responding to Rue's posts or has he finally ran out of material....

[Rue]

Lol.Interesting how it works Bud...Army comes on the board, and I defer to him and become quiet.

Go figure it out.

[Charles Anthony]

Guys,

Take a break.

The thread is locked temporarily. In the mean time, go hug a stranger.

Ch. A.

[Charles Anthony]

So I have to ask charles why?? Why would you shut down the debate in the love affair thread, It was not out of control it was a actual debate charles, please quit being so quick to shut things down, thank you.

I disagree I believe the thread degraded with everybody resorting to childish discussion and personal attacks.

I was quick to shut it down temporarily to give people time to re-read what they last wrote. I will do it again next time.

Folks,

The thread is open again. Please continue the discussion but try to stay civil. You all bring up great angles and information to the topic but it gets cluttered in the abrasive rhetoric.

Ch. A.

[bud]

not sure if there is any place to go after the following comment:

Oh I know you Bud. I see people like you hide behind children who are used as your warriors. I have seen people like you use children, cripples, people with down's syndrome, pregnant women, to fight your battles.

[Shady]

The two anti-semites of the forum need to be dealth with. It's getting ridiculous and way out of hand.

[bud]

The two anti-semites of the forum need to be dealth with. It's getting ridiculous and way out of hand.

i agree that racists should be dealt with. so should those who engage in defaming others and making irresponsible comments without being able to back up their claims.

by the way, who are the anti-semites and can you point to specifics where they have shown anti-semitism? and i don't mean things that you hear in your head. i mean actual quotes from them.

Edited November 27, 2013 by bud