caesar Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 yeah right. We are shallow here in BC but hopefully not that shallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 yeah right. We are shallow here in BC but hopefully not that shallow. I didn't say it was the only reason however, Cheema used ethnicity to his advantage to oust Cadman I am simply taking it up a notch. To say that it is possible at the next level. I am not saying it was the biggest reason I am not saying it was the foremost reason but perhpas it could have contributed to the pounding Mary Polak Recieved. Perhaps to the tune of one or two thousand votes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 So then it really is not worth mentioning. Mary Polak's action trying to bring the books on homosexuality into primary schools was probably a bigger factor but the Liberals policies are the biggest reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted November 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 British Columbia is one of the most beautiful places in the world, rich in natural resources and hard-working people looking to realize the promise of the 21st century. But we can never achieve our full potential if Gordon Campbell continues to make it harder for ordinary people to get the economic opportunities and the education, health care and services they need. In a nutshell this is why the Liberals got trounced last Thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 British Columbia is one of the most beautiful places in the world, rich in natural resources and hard-working people looking to realize the promise of the 21st century. But we can never achieve our full potential if Carol James makes it harder for ordinary people to get the economic opportunities and the education, health care and services they need. See how empty rhetoric sounds when pointed at a deserving target. The BCLibs will win in the spring but they will loose a few seats. They should loose a few. We need a functioning opposition to remove the media and the unions from that role. I am a conservative and the union between federal liberals and conservatives in BC is uncomfortable at best. That said, the union will last at least one more election. We will not chance an NDP comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 New Democrats will form the government because they will improve the lives of all British Columbians by creating new opportunities for ordinary people, which include; Ensure education is affordable and accessible to help young people Expand long-term and home care to help families with elderly parents. Halt the privatization of ICBC< BC Hydro, and other public assts Ensure BC businesses are allowed to bid on all public projects - including the construction of our ferries Re-establish the link between jobs and accesss to resources to help people in rural communities to mention a few things off the yop of my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Maple, Of course I disagree with your list of stuff. I think that adding seats to our universities and enabling them to fund quality education is important. Our health care needs much more than a few long term care facilities. It would be nice to have the community resources to keep people in their own homes as long as possible. I know I would prefer that over a government home. I could care less about ICBC and Hydro if they are regulated and policed. If the public owns them bares little relationship to having my power and insurance needs met. The government has the power to set the playing field and they should use it. Bid BC. All government projects are open to bid and posted on a website months before the decision date. BC ferries are no different. The local ship yard was knocked off early and to keep them in when they had no chance would have been a waste of their money. Jobs in resource communities are being put in jeopardy by municipal business taxes and environmental lobby which you support. This springs election will be more about coalitions than about these issues. IMO the Liberals have better positions on these issues however they will win because of the federal liberal vote attached to the federal conservative vote out numbers the NDP vote. The Greens will also pull away some of the environmental vote from the NDP. Few, I wont have to move for another 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 you sound like conrad black. if i don't get what i want i will leave please leave now as we don't need blackmail types in bc bush's united states is dying for peole like you. we want a government in BC that is going to represent ordinary people, not the elites or the special interest groups like the greens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 we want a government in BC that is going to represent ordinary people, not the elites or the special interest groups like the greens Who is we maple. It is just your opinion and mine. In a democracy we are equal. This is shown in the US election. The Democrats calling Bush supporters stupid did not gain them votes. It is condescending and elitist. The funny part is that it also doesn't get you elected. I am ordinary people. I have family values, work hard and want to leave this place better than when I came. The difference is I think I am responsible for making it happen. The NDP mindset thinks I should pay for them and they are entitled to a better life. Wrong I will just have to go where I can work and grow. I don't want to move. I want to work and grow my business here. For this I will work hard and use my resources to get the government I support 4 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 New Democrats will form the government because they will improve the lives of all British Columbians by creating new opportunities for ordinary people, which include;Ensure education is affordable and accessible to help young people Expand long-term and home care to help families with elderly parents. Halt the privatization of ICBC< BC Hydro, and other public assts Ensure BC businesses are allowed to bid on all public projects - including the construction of our ferries Re-establish the link between jobs and accesss to resources to help people in rural communities to mention a few things off the yop of my head well those are great accomplishments but will they happen? If they do, are there any negative consequences. For instance University, great lets make it more affordable, but how do they plan on doing that, tuition freeze? What about tack on fees are they counted? If both of those are frozen and School is not affordable now, it still wont be affordable. So then a drop in tuition as well? With policies like the above, we run into a problem with a diminshing quality of Education, make something cheap and it will inherrently be cheap. Wether or not universities can provide at a price I don't know, but people are greedy and will suck others dry I know that. I wonder if it would simply lead to a poorer quality of Education, lower standards for teachers and create as many problems as it makes. The other option would be partial subsidization of student education, which has the oppourtunity to work well. Unfortunantley I look down the list and notice that well it would be on a list with alot of other cost heavy factors and we may end up with a high cost over-aggressive agenda that will require massive Tax hikes. Then what are you going to do to stop the university student from moving to Alberta to work until the Liberals are get back power in 8 years? It is much easier to have a brain drain to Alberta then America. If just wonder if perhaps instead of promising British Columbians the world, the NDP should just promise British Columbian's British Columbia, by taking a Progresive agenda that picks 3 big items for one term and does 3 the next term. instead of doing 6 in one term and forcing British Columbians to Vote Liberal in 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted November 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Well let's take tuition fees. Many many students are now coming out of university with massive debt - it is very unfair. Why do we need to charge tuition fees, as we have a tax system for that sort of thing. And you have seen the game being played by the Liberals: Reduce income tax which is progressive and massively increase sales taxes which are very regressive. A long time ago if you wanted to become an accountant you were trained by accounting firms and went to school at night. Now the accounting firms have offloaded all their training costs to either the governemnt or the students. We need to put the breaks on tuition fees, gradually begin to phase them out, and put the costs of training these students back where they belong with the businesses involved. There has been a major shifting of costs from businesses to the government and to individuals. It has got to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 I would like to see tuition fees kept reasonable but never free. Too many would go to university that are not willing to put in an honest effort as when they need to pay up themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 We need to put the breaks on tuition fees, gradually begin to phase them out, and put the costs of training these students back where they belong with the businesses involved. There has been a major shifting of costs from businesses to the government and to individuals. It has got to stop. That is why trades are of greater $$ value right now. You get to work and train at the same time. In academia, this does not happen until grad school (and not all students get funding). From a $$ perspective, university is simply not worth it unless you become a judge, MD etc. Even then, a lot of medical doctors question whether it is worth it anymore when you factor in tuition, effort, time and then the continued time, effort and illnesses once you work. Not all doctors are making bank either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 whatever work you decide to do should be based on whether you enjoy doing that type of work; not just the monetary rewards. A lot of your life will be spent working; try to find something that you enjoy doing as long as it pays well enough to enjoy the non working portion of your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 whatever work you decide to do should be based on whether you enjoy doing that type of work; not just the monetary rewards. A lot of your life will be spent working; try to find something that you enjoy doing as long as it pays well enough to enjoy the non working portion of your life. Could not have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Ensure education is affordable and accessible to help young peopleExpand long-term and home care to help families with elderly parents. How much is that going to cost, and how are you going to pay for it? Halt the privatization of ICBC< BC Hydro, and other public assts Why? Ensure BC businesses are allowed to bid on all public projects - including the construction of our ferries Why? And what if the companies don't "buy BC"? Are you going to punish them? Re-establish the link between jobs and accesss to resources to help people in rural communities So the same party that you claim is greener then the green party, is all of a sudden going to allow the logging of old growth forests, strip mines, fishing and perhaps if we are lucky, offshore oil and gas production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Ensure education is affordable and accessible to help young peopleExpand long-term and home care to help families with elderly parents. How much is that going to cost, and how are you going to pay for it? What do you think we are paying all those taxes for? Education and health not just fancy expensive highways to hold a risky extravaganza like the Olympics. Halt the privatization of ICBC< BC Hydro, and other public assts Because they provide affordable services for the tax paying public and also contribute heavily to the public purse. Why kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 What do you think we are paying all those taxes for? Education and health not just fancy expensive highways to hold a risky extravaganza like the Olympics. Why should I have to pay for somebodies entire schooling and for a nurse to wipe the apple sauce off the chin of somebodies grandfather? And as I said before, how much, and how are we going to pay for it? Because they provide affordable services for the tax paying public and also contribute heavily to the public purse. Why kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs. Let a private farmer take care of the goose, and in turn we will tax him for every golden egg the before mentioned goose layed........less goose shit to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 I walk to work. Why should I be forced to pay for all of those roads, traffic lights out there? Where will we get the money for this? I violate no laws in society and can protect myself thank you very much. Why should I have to pay for all those police with fancy cars and equipment out there? Where are we going to get the money for this? I am a vegan fundamentally opposed to the killing of animals. Why do I have to pay ranchers/corporations to slaughter animals (i.e. BSE bailout)? I am a pacifist, why do I have to pay for our military? I have gone to a doctor a handful of times in my entire life and I am willing to pay for each visit. Why should I pay taxes for health care? Where will we get the money for this? Answer: because you are part of a society where people must work together to ensure the betterment of the collective. On this discussion board, people like to call taxation for things like roads, police, clean water etc. as extreme left-wing, special interest, radical, communism (i.e. the Liberal/NDP conspiracy coalition). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Answer: because you are part of a society where people must work together to ensure the betterment of the collective. And were is that line seperates between societies responsablity and the individuals? I don't wish to cut my lawn.......I want government to do it. I don't like picking up the dog turds on the before mentioned lawn.....why can't government do it? I don't like doing the dishes, I want government to do it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 We have determined that education benefits both the individual and the society at large. Thus, individuals and society pay for it. Health care I would argue is a moral issue that most people accept. Even the Canadian right accepts these responsibilities. So, I guess the answer is the tyranny of the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 So, I guess the answer is the tyranny of the majority. That doesn't really answer the question.......when will society put it's foot down and say enough? I see a striking resemblance between our "romantic" and "idealistic" society and my dog. My Dog is more then willing to eat and eat untill it's sick or runs out of food if I were to leave access to it's kibble 24/7......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 My Dog is more then willing to eat and eat untill it's sick or runs out of food if I were to leave access to it's kibble 24/7......... Get a pure Husky. They conserve food and do not gobble it down at once. Its really weird! Education and health care standards and responsibilities are set by the state via Royal Commissions. Supposedly, they represent most Canadians. The responsibility is shared between the state and the individual. When people cannot afford these things, then the state will pick up the tab. We need a healthy, educated populace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Education and health care standards and responsibilities are set by the state via Royal Commissions. Supposedly, they represent most Canadians. The responsibility is shared between the state and the individual. When people cannot afford these things, then the state will pick up the tab. We need a healthy, educated populace. Don't get me wrong, I agree that having a healthy, well educated population is a good thing. Also, let me stress, that I think the poor should be given the opportunity to better themselves. What I disagree on is a total universal education and healthcare system that provides free services to middle and upper class indivuals, that with a little foresight, could take care of themselves. Let's keep the safety net open for those that really need it.....and close it for those that don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted November 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Income taxes, if we closed the loopholes for the rich, is the most effective and fair form of taxation, because it is progressive. What has happened in BC is obscene as the BC Campbell Liberals have reduced the government intake from income taxes and raised the revenue from sales taxes and user fees. What it means is that the pooor get poorer, and the rich get richer. Is that really the way we want to go in Canada with more than one million children living below the poverty line. don't we all have a collective responsibility to help these kids. I believe that this is a fundamental Canadian value so we need to get on with it. Reducing user fees and sales taxes, and increasing income taxes are the solutions to child poverty, and many other economic problems in our society. 99/602 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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