Female Israeli soldiers speak out about the Israeli sickness

[DogOnPorch]

- israel has "the most moral military in the world"

- israel is the only democracy in the middle east

- israel is under threat of violence and it needs to defend itself

- israel needs to be defended by the western world because of the above

1. They're not eating the hearts of their enemies nor glorifying murderers of children.

2. It is the only democracy in the region.

3. After several Arab surprise attacks...yes, indeed.

4. Israel has NEVER won its victories with help from the 'Western World'.

[Guest American Woman]

4. Israel has NEVER won its victories with help from the 'Western World'.

More like 'in spite of the western world' ....

[Hudson Jones]

1. They're not eating the hearts of their enemies nor glorifying murderers of children.

They have to eat the hearts of their enemies to be immoral? It's like the rapist asking the court to excuse its actions because there are murderers out there.

2. It is the only democracy in the region.

No it's not. According to the Economist, the Middle Eastern countries with the highest scores of democracy are Israel, Kuwait,Turkey, Morocco and Lebanon. However, neither, including Israel are considered "full democracies".

Israel is considered a "flawed democracy".

3. After several Arab surprise attacks...yes, indeed.

Israel is no longer under threat. The actions that it is taking now are not for self defense. Increasing settlements, ie: annexing land and water is not a matter of security for Israel. It is colonialism and expansionism.

4. Israel has NEVER won its victories with help from the 'Western World'.

Throughout all of its wars, Israel has continued to receive an average of $3 billion a year from the U.S. which have mostly gone towards its military. How can you not call that support? Not only that, but the U.S. has vetoed majority of resolutions against Israel's aggression, which has given Israel immunity against being held accountable for breaking international law.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[DogOnPorch]

They have to eat the hearts of their enemies to be immoral? It's like the rapist asking the court to excuse its actions because there are murderers out there.

No it's not. According to the Economist, the Middle Eastern countries with the highest scores of democracy are Israel, Kuwait,Turkey, Morocco and Lebanon. However, neither, including Israel are considered "full democracies".

Israel is considered a "flawed democracy".

Israel is no longer under threat. The actions that it is taking now are not for self defense. Increasing settlements, ie: annexing land and water is not a matter of security for Israel. It is colonialism and expansionism.

Throughout all of its wars, Israel has continued to receive an average of $3 billion a year from the U.S. which have mostly gone towards its military. How can you not call that support? Not only that, but the U.S. has vetoed majority of resolutions against Israel's aggression, which has given Israel immunity against being held accountable for breaking international law.

1. Israel isn't a "rapist". Just an unfortunate country that has been repeatedly attacked. However, the surrounding Arabs are on record eating the hearts of their enemies, torturing folks, using child soldiers, glorifying murderers, using Micky Mouse as an anti-Semitic prop, denying the Holocaust, promoting the Blood Libel, etc, etc, etc.

2. Israel is STILL the only democracy in the region.

3. Israel is ALWAYS under threat. Now its neighbours are going berzerk...even more reason to be wary.

4. Israel started getting large bilateral-aid packages from the US as a result of Arab invasions. Before 1973 it was a token amount. The Arabs brought THAT reality upon themselves. The 6 Day War was won with French equipment and liberal amounts of WW2 surplus.

As for the US's position...a strong Israel = good. Less chance of a war that would ultimately cost the US way more on all fronts.

Edited October 22, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[bush_cheney2004]

Throughout all of its wars, Israel has continued to receive an average of $3 billion a year from the U.S.

This is obviously false given war timelines and historical U.S. aid to israel.

[DogOnPorch]

This is obviously false given war timelines and historical U.S. aid to israel.

Yeah...3 billion in 1949, apparently. Truman might be a tad shocked even in the grave. (cue the spooky music)

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah...3 billion in 1949, apparently. Truman might be a tad shocked even in the grave. (cue the spooky music)

Total U.S. foreign aid (military, economic, and humanitarian) to Israel for the period 1949 - 1996 was about $68 billion, ramping up after the Camp David Peace Accords in 1979. U.S aid was also increased for Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine to the tune of BILLION$.

[DogOnPorch]

Total U.S. foreign aid (military, economic, and humanitarian) to Israel for the period 1949 - 1996 was about $68 billion, ramping up after the Camp David Peace Accords in 1979. U.S aid was also increased for Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine to the tune of BILLION$.

But, I think we can both agree the real foot-to-the-floor moment came post Yom Kippur. The Superpowers came a tad too close to a shooting war over the so-called Holy Land.

[bud]

you guys are hilarious with your commentary.

U.S. aid to Israel totals $233.7b over six decades

The United States has provided Israel with $233.7 billion in aid ‏(after adjusting for inflation‏) since the state was formed in 1948 through the end of last year, research by TheMarker has found.

In nominal terms, total American aid was $112 billion over the years, according to data that appears on the website of the U.S. Congress.

link

however, those figures don't include loan guarantees and transfer of military equipment:

The figures do not include loan guarantees amounting to about $19 billion that Washington has granted Israel in recent years to make it easier for it to borrow overseas. It also doesn’t include the transfer of surplus military equipment to Israel.

this also confirms what HJ said earlier:

The first U.S. aid to Israel arrived in 1949 and was used for such basic purposes as buying food and absorbing Jewish refugees. It began to expand a decade later with the first military aid. It grew gradually from a base of $100 million ‏(in nominal terms‏) in 1949, before taking off after the Yom Kippur War and the signing of the Camp David agreements.

Since then, U.S. aid has been about $3 billion annually, of which $1.8 billion is military assistance with the rest for civilian purposes. In 1998 Benjamin Netanyahu, in his first term as prime minister, led a drive to convert the civilian portion to military aid, totaling $2.5 billion to $3 billion a year.

link

Edited October 23, 2013 by bud

[bush_cheney2004]

The United States will continue to support Israel with foreign aid...and that is a good thing. Looks like Israel will have F-35s before Canada !

[bud]

The United States will continue to support Israel with foreign aid...and that is a good thing. Looks like Israel will have F-35s before Canada !

i suppose your fluffy response is your way of saying: "i stand corrected." to what you said earlier:

This is obviously false given war timelines and historical U.S. aid to israel.

[GostHacked]

I like the part where a Israeli settlement is called a 'quiet Jewish neighborhood'.

[DogOnPorch]

you guys are hilarious with your commentary.

Nobody said the US doesn't provide bilateral aid to the Israelis. I believe the main thrust you're missing is WHY Israel gets what it does and WHEN the money you oh-so-hate the Israelis having started arriving in earnest. Plus, as fellows like yourself always fail to address is what the US gets as part of that whole bilateral thing. Nothing? Yeah, right...lol.

The figures your online newspaper provides also clearly state that they were 'adjusted for inflation'...whatever that means. A couple of chimps and a dart board? Who knows? But they're adjusted...

Also ignored, as usual...and as mentioned by BC-2004...is that the Arabs gets similar amounts from the same source...the Americans. Plus piles from other sources like the Russians/Chinese/Iranians/Pakistanis/etc.

Edited October 23, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[bud]

Nobody said the US doesn't provide bilateral aid to the Israelis.

i didn't say anyone did. why are you not paying attention to what is being discussed? i am simply correcting bushcheney after he tried correcting information put out by HJ.

i'm also correcting you and american woman and reiterating what HJ said about how israel would not be able to continue what it's doing without the military and political support from the u.s.

I believe the main thrust you're missing is WHY Israel gets what it does and WHEN the money you oh-so-hate the Israelis having started arriving in earnest. Plus, as fellows like yourself always fail to address is what the US gets as part of that whole bilateral thing. Nothing? Yeah, right...lol.

israel receives the incredible amount of money and political support because congress is heavily influenced by AIPAC. it's quite simple. follow the money trail and see how much many of these congressmen receive from AIPAC.

The figures your online newspaper provides also clearly state that they were 'adjusted for inflation'...whatever that means. A couple of chimps and a dart board? Who knows? But they're adjusted...

i quoted haaretz. one of the best known, oldest and biggest media outlets in israel. are you trying to discount what haaretz is saying by not mentioning the name and calling it "your online newspaper"? how desperately sad.

"adjusted inflation" is a normal method of measuring and comparing spending between different times in our recent history. not sure why you're not familiar with this widely used method. i thought you were an informed person.

Also ignored, as usual...and as mentioned by BC-2004...is that the Arabs gets similar amounts from the same source...the Americans.

no they don't. that is false information. even combined together, all the puppet arab regimes who were paid and bought out to accept israel, do not come anywhere close to how much israel, a supposed economic power, receives in social assistance courtesy of u.s. taxpayers. i guess some u.s. congressmen, who are so against social programs, are okay with u.s. taxpayers paying for social assistance to this one rogue state, who refuses to define its borders.

[bleeding heart]

i suppose your fluffy response is your way of saying: "i stand corrected." to what you said earlier:

Zing.

[DogOnPorch]

1. i didn't say anyone did. why are you not paying attention to what is being discussed? i am simply correcting bushcheney after he tried correcting information put out by HJ.

2. i'm also correcting you and american woman and reiterating what HJ said about how israel would not be able to continue what it's doing without the military and political support from the u.s.

3. israel receives the incredible amount of money and political support because congress is heavily influenced by AIPAC. it's quite simple. follow the money trail and see how much many of these congressmen receive from AIPAC.

4. i quoted haaretz. one of the best known, oldest and biggest media outlets in israel. are you trying to discount what haaretz is saying by not mentioning the name and calling it "your online newspaper"? how desperately sad.

5. "adjusted inflation" is a normal method of measuring and comparing spending between different times in our recent history. not sure why you're not familiar with this widely used method. i thought you were an informed person.

6. no they don't. that is false information. even combined together, all the puppet arab regimes who were paid and bought out to accept israel, do not come anywhere close to how much israel, a supposed economic power, receives in social assistance courtesy of u.s. taxpayers. i guess some u.s. congressmen, who are so against social programs, are okay with u.s. taxpayers paying for social assistance to this one rogue state, who refuses to define its borders.

1. HJ is simply wrong.

2. Israel's C&C makes the Arabs look like they're standing still. That's a good officer corp....and excellent NCOs with the ability to make decisions. The Arabs ONLY chance is to dig a very deep hole and pray.

3. That Israel receives any money at all is entirely the fault of the Arabs and their habit of attacking every so often.

4 & 5. Yes...Haaretz...an online newspaper full of reporters. I also mentioned why 'adjusted for inflation' is akin to saying 'jumbo shrimp'. How was it 'adjusted for inflation'? Was it kept in the John for a week and used as TP or something? How exactly or don't bother passing it of as factual.

6. I said similar amounts and they are similar amounts. As well, your side get weapons and aid from all manner of international sources.

Cheque? Or is cash OK?

[bleeding heart]

How was it 'adjusted for inflation'? Was it kept in the John for a week and used as TP or something?

No, it means that while my father was making $15 000/yr in 1958, he was not living under the poverty line.

[DogOnPorch]

No, it means that while my father was making $15 000/yr in 1958, he was not living under the poverty line.

That's not what his little newspaper article says. It's also dishonest. 'Adjusted for inflation' are merely weasel words that can be adjusted to say anything with that broad a mandate.

Haaretz's bias as a left-wing rag akin to the CBC is, also, VERY well known.

[bleeding heart]

That's not what his little newspaper article says. It's also dishonest. 'Adjusted for inflation' are merely weasel words that can be adjusted to say anything with that broad a mandate.

Haaretz's bias as a left-wing rag akin to the CBC is, also, VERY well known.

Well, I dispute the absurd notion that a mainstream, Establishment news organ is or could be a "left-wing rag" outside the auspices of Cuba.

Depending, of course, what is meant by "left wing"....are we talking about whom is to the Left of Pinochet?

Where is the evidence of its "left wing rag" status?

It's "Very well known"....by those who make the claim, but remain mysteriously unable to perform a robust institutional analysis...which is a perfectly do-able by anybody who is serious about proving the assertion.

Edited October 23, 2013 by bleeding heart

[DogOnPorch]

Nitpicking. My points stand.

[bleeding heart]

Nitpicking. My points stand.

Except for the point I "nitpicked"...the point which was meant to underscore, as conclusionary evidence, the rest of your post.

??

Edited October 23, 2013 by bleeding heart

[DogOnPorch]

Except for the point I "nitpicked"...the point which was meant to underscore, as conclusionary evidence, the rest of your post.

??

Pretend all you like that Haaretz doesn't have an agenda.

[bleeding heart]

To "push Israel into the sea"?

[DogOnPorch]

To "push Israel into the sea"?

That would be the Arabs. Don't say they've never given it the ol' college try.

[bleeding heart]

At any rate, I'm not sure how I'm "pretend[ing] something that I never addressed.