Small towns under siege

[Topaz]

Even though the following link is about Nova Scotia, and the Cape Breton area, I can see this happening in parts of Ontario, and the rest of Canada where manufacturing and other industries have left the area and soon after the residents have to move out to look for jobs , mostly of West. In my own area of SW Ontario, many stores are empty, something I haven't sen in my life time and I've been here many years. The problem with corporations leaving and the rest of them lobbying governments to give them the advantage over workers, in my view, is hurting this country. IF workers are forced to move to find jobs, this could upset everything within a country causing more people to be unemployed and communities not have a good tax base. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/canada-s-small-towns-under-seige-162512916.html%C2'>

[Michael Hardner]

The link is missing, I think.

[Boges]

The link is missing, I think.

You can see it when you quote the message.

If a town is built upon a business and that business leaves, should the government subsidize the town? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

It's sort of like the argument I read on this site against EI reform. People doing seasonal work should be able to apply for EI every year inorder to keep them in communities built on those industries.

[AlienB]

Economies change, it has been happening for hundreds and thousands of years.

Of course with the onset of freetrade and globalization - non competitive businesses and areas will be shut down.

Autarchy is an important principle It needs to be remembered though that some infrastructure ages and depreciates, some of it isn't useful for the purpose it was originally intended, and it makes no sense to support that infrastructure and business structure unless it serves new interests.

Economic changes present oppourtunities though. For instance empty homes can be used for baby booming retireries who are not connected with the work side of things such as manufacture. Old factories could be turned into bingo halls or storage facilities for low cost goods that will have future demand at markup like food.

None the less manufacture in most large scales doesn't require much human input anymore. The economy is being driven by technology both manufacturing and transportation. The needs of people are also changing too.

The importance is insuring self reliance at every level of government, that is individualism with access to their own food, clothing and other cottage industry activities. Bear in mind family units were and are able to be self efficient. People just are use to an old way of living, the government and the people will need to adapt to economic changes. It cannot be understated while government may serve the elite ultra business powers with all the money, people themselves will need to adjust to being sold out to increased efficiency and profitability on the top. Ultimately it is not increased profit but still even with localized change unemployment rates are not severe. The trend of urbanization has been ongoing for a very long time, since urban areas existed essentially. You have to market it correctly. 1 people need access to resource.

Well yes x or y unit is taken away from the economy, that economy is effected in some way, either you replace that unit or you will need to accept that loss. Take Waterloo for instance the loss of rim, being largely shattered and now being opened up for sale may effect the local economy in Waterloo no doubt, it is a global company that brings in resource.The loss of the farmers market may be able to be replaced in part but the loss of rim itself will not easily be replaced unless the new communications technology such as neural communications devices that interface directly with brainwaves start being made in Waterloo, there are however other industries like RIMs quantum communications and other systems that have potential global markets.

The infrastructure of rim could be used by other companies, however the bottom line is if people don't buy it it don't get made. If you look at how the economy works, more and more new wealth is created in the form of goods while wealth is lost in the form of garbage and resource depletion. Resources in some areas will get depleted meaning the infrastructure of those areas is no longer needed.

Wealth is a cultural value so if wealth is not worth it people won't pay, this is common sense. This is not to say RIM has no value but you need to adjust your operations to your profit. I will say outright rim still has a value but it needs to have customers.

This is not an issue simply solved, the only thing the government can do is promote autarchy first by providing a system of providing for humans basic needs in facilitating production of goods needed for consumption, and second it needs to promote production of luxury goods, by facilitating for a free and open market, while also protecting the environment,and public safety and health. This would be a whole book to really address, but the bottom line is Canada is a free society and people get to move where they want and buy what they want. We cannot allow ourselves to be bought out by foreign enterprises and we should support local and regional companies, and cooperative enterprises are a good way of doing this. If people do not support fair and reasonably priced products produced locally that is their choice.

People live and die, just some with more fanfare, and others faster.

Stuff ain't free, either you got it or you don't.

That's all there is too it.

Now boo hoo, as stated biological life is on a timer you don't like it realize its going to come out but people are best if they are in that situation accepting life for what it is, and accepting that it ends and they have to live with nothing, face starvation or death. That is the type of world that was made for humans to live in.

What do you expect a revitalization based on what? If you don't want to work make robots to do it for you, you don't want to think make AI.. but if you can't or they don't use humans, and if you can't get humans to work for you, then you will need to feed yourself and find your own water and shelter if you want to survive.

You can't manage stuff that people will kill you not to manage, otherwise it leaves to only civil disorder, or rule by force. A one person overthrow is heavily futile,they label those people nutjobs and terrorists depending on how much they have done. Activists are often people who don't use force against people but would otherwise fill that same niche of dissidents to corrupt rule.

The world is run by sociopaths. Introduce new businesses or fill in the gaps... is it a problem, no, is it a change, yes.

Edited September 30, 2013 by AlienB

[eyeball]

You can see it when you quote the message.

Where?

[AlienB]

Where?

http://www.capebretonpost.com/News/Local/2013-10-01/article-3413677/Cape-Breton-needs-to-address-poverty,-economic-development%3A-report/1

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cape-breton-s-youth-population-plunges-1.1874679

(THERE IS AN ELECTION THERE..)

The good news is with declining population the real estate market could be opened up and may continue to be since the demand will continue to decline, and with no employers there will be no trend for middle age people to fill the gap. This presents an oppourtunity for redevelopment, however no doubt the area will continue to exist, luckily this presents an oppourtunity if managed.

For instance Canada wants to take in like 5000 syrian refugees, why not just plop them down in lunenburg on the majestic island of cape breton.. where they can revitalize the local economy with their skills, craft, and expertise brought from syria. It worked for the Irish in Quebec. After Aleppo it will be the Ritz.

There is a lot available in Cape Breton if you look at mls.. lots of oppourtunities for new self employed immigrants looking to find a home in Canada.

The answer should be obvious that you need capital to start operations.. and immigrants who bring capital have capital.

Where else in Canada can you get 3 acres of land and a house for under $15000? this with a well and ocean front... .. perfect off grid potentials... absolutely lovely for a self supportive person enough space to grow food for the family.

Edited October 2, 2013 by AlienB

[TimG]

For instance Canada wants to take in like 5000 syrian refugees, why not just plop them down in lunenburg on the majestic island of cape breton.

5000 who need jobs and social services. It is irrational to assume that the same economic forces which are forcing people to leave would not apply to transplanted refugees.

Modern society needs the hyper-specialization that comes with large urban centers. Small towns are no longer viable economic units unless they have something like a mine which allows them to be hyper-specialized.

Edited October 2, 2013 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

5000 who need jobs and social services. It is irrational to assume that the same economic forces which are forcing people to leave would not apply to transplanted refugees.

Modern society needs the hyper-specialization that comes with large urban centers. Small towns are no longer viable economic units unless they have something like a mine which allows them to be hyper-specialized.

Is it hyper-specialization ? It seems to me that learning Java, or HTML5 - although a specific technical skill - is more of a generalized skill, since you can use it in many verticals. I'm not strongly disagreeing with you here, just thinking out loud.

I also think that small towns could be great places for tech industries to locate,since all you need to locate a tech industry is telephone lines. No deep-water harbour, factory, or mine - just some buildings, electricity, and phone lines.

[TimG]

I also think that small towns could be great places for tech industries to locate,since all you need to locate a tech industry is telephone lines.

What you need for tech industry are people with hyper-specialized skills and you are not going to find those people in a small town.

The tech industry kind of proves my point because people with tech skills gravitate to the tech clusters in urban centers because that where the jobs are which, in turn, attracts companies because that is where the people with the skills are.

One could argue that one could set up a company in small town and attract workers but that is not as easy as it sounds because tech workers don't want to move to places where there is only one potential employer.

Edited October 2, 2013 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

I guess so...

I think I'm projecting my own desires to get out of Toronto, but that's just me.

[Locutus]

Even though the following link is about Nova Scotia, and the Cape Breton area, I can see this happening in parts of Ontario, and the rest of Canada where manufacturing and other industries have left the area and soon after the residents have to move out to look for jobs , mostly of West. In my own area of SW Ontario, many stores are empty, something I haven't sen in my life time and I've been here many years. The problem with corporations leaving and the rest of them lobbying governments to give them the advantage over workers, in my view, is hurting this country. IF workers are forced to move to find jobs, this could upset everything within a country causing more people to be unemployed and communities not have a good tax base.

This is really interesting I know that Newfoundland and much of Atlantic Canada faced a similar migration which really had an impact on their economy when the fisheries collapsed, and many young Newfoundlanders who could no longer work left on mass using labour mobility provisions under the constitution. This phenomenon is not restricted only to small towns, even large cities such as Detroit, Michigan have faced the exact same challenge, (see link)http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/18/detroit-prepares-bankruptcy-filing-friday/2552819/ and have filed for bankruptcy as industries have collapsed and the population has taken advantage of labour mobility and moved elsewhere leaving their liabilities behind (elderly requiring social assistance, city/state debt servicing costs, infrastructure etc.). It's really interesting the extreme effects of this phenomenon - check out the Detroit Ghost towns - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjCObHJlkiU they can't even afford to decommission some of the roads or even their police now only respond to high priority crimes.

http://nl.communityaccounts.ca

[AlienB]

5000 who need jobs and social services. It is irrational to assume that the same economic forces which are forcing people to leave would not apply to transplanted refugees.

Modern society needs the hyper-specialization that comes with large urban centers. Small towns are no longer viable economic units unless they have something like a mine which allows them to be hyper-specialized.

I said nothing about providing jobs and social services. I said they bring their skills and expertise, so as to escablish a model of syrian economy such as growing their own food raising their own animals and providing for their own needs via cottage industry. While I would condone taking foriegn aide funding for syria to provide food for Syrians in Canada that are refugees, I think that we should realize that there is no need to provide social services and jobs to Syrians, they should be able to provide jobs for themselves and build their own economy within Canada.

As stated ~20,000 * 1000 works out to $20,000,000 on shelter while they should be able to get to growing their food, I think over time they living in government housing bought up from the flooded market in Cape Breton would allow for subtantial growth. I think taking a large ethnic community and plopping it down will still provide better living that the refugee camps around syria. It is still a step up..

you seem to associatte taking refugees with giving them a handout.. just run it as a refugee camp, that promotes self sustenance.

Over the long term by having them pay any income into taxes, and working down a refugee loan it provides them both access without just giving them money.

the model for refugees is all wrong, it is favourable but wrong.

5 people to a home works out to about 1000 homes. I'm sure they will bring skills, and I am sure many will be able to take their lifestyle from syria and apply that successfully to Cape Breton Island... now I don't think it will happen but it is what I would do, just send refugees to an island and run it as a large intake refugee camp. using the homes that are up for sale

Some may find work elsewhere after getting further clearance or sponsers in Canada. Cape Breton would provide them a lot.

Perhaps even just setting up Isle Madame as a whole refugee location for Canada and opening up the flood gates for refugees to Canada provided they settle isle madame. Or how about making petit de grat island as New Syria in Canada.

Can you imagine a bunch of syrians in kilts throwing around cabers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petit-de-Grat,_Nova_Scotia

perhaps a graduated approach with three or four levels based upon employability, financial resources, education etc..

I was talking about Irish in Quebec making a life for themselves, you totally took my comments out of context.

I am guessing some syrians will be great I've had syrian aquantances, (on all sides of the conflict), none the less Canada should have a do it yourself refugee option.. that is let you in to some island but you got to do it all on your own without any help from the gov in terms of resource.. come on over but you got to make it yourself, here is the camp land, if you want food you have to help with the grow coops etc.. not just syrians but everyone.. in an area that can be secured. you know businesses and groups could sponser funds to the camp.. like to a refugee camp as it is, perhaps provide some tax credits to those that due, and insure access in and out is managed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_Madame,_Nova_Scotia

Edited October 4, 2013 by AlienB

[TimG]

I said they bring their skills and expertise, so as to escablish a model of syrian economy such as growing their own food raising their own animals and providing for their own needs via cottage industry.

If people consuming things was all one needed for an economy then India and China would be a lot wealthier than they are. What is needed for a healthy community is an economic eco-system and the eco-system required to support Canadian levels of development requires the specialization that one finds in large cities. You cannot take a bunch of refugees, dump them in the middle of nowhere and expect that they will be immune to the economic forces that are causing Canadians to leave these communities.