Innovation in Public Schools

[socialist]

A division in Winnipeg has bought Ipads for all its junior high leanrers. This is a great innovative initiative that will enage learners. School needs to be fun in order for learners to learn properly. It's disappointing to read some of the comments following the story, as to many people seem stuck in the past. Ipads are the wave of the future and will m make our kids competitive in the global village. Pencil, paper, textbooks will be relics of the past. And just think how many trees will be saved by this. We need to encourade all public schools in Canada to do this.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ipads-for-winnipeg-students-the-pros-and-cons-of-high-tech-learning-1.1438691

[AngusThermopyle]

Interesting article, but as usual you present the subject in a totally one sided manner and fail to acknowledge the potential pitfalls. Or you just didn't read the entire article. For instance this part.

But as educators work to incorporate technology in the classroom, new research suggests it might actually impede learning. The problem, they say, is that many students use computers to surf the Web during class time and fail to really learn what's being taught.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ipads-for-winnipeg-students-the-pros-and-cons-of-high-tech-learning-1.1438691#ixzz2esP4Nrpd

Or this part.

McMaster University researcher Faria Sana, who co-authored the study, says the problem is that many students mistakenly believe they can pay attention to two or three things at once.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ipads-for-winnipeg-students-the-pros-and-cons-of-high-tech-learning-1.1438691#ixzz2esPcyTif

Or this part.

But it is a huge concern because (laptops) provides students with the opportunity to do other things and they are tempted to do them," she says.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ipads-for-winnipeg-students-the-pros-and-cons-of-high-tech-learning-1.1438691#ixzz2esPxJucn

And in this part you'll notice that they say "hope", this is hardly a solid endorsement.

And with more teacher interaction in schools than in universities, the hope is that there will be less opportunity to stray.

There are always two sides to every story yet you consistently present only one, this is a serious shortcoming on your behalf. If indeed you are going to be a teacher as you claim I would suggest you address this problem that you appear to have.
Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ipads-for-winnipeg-students-the-pros-and-cons-of-high-tech-learning-1.1438691#ixzz2esQGxOvI

[Michael Hardner]

AngusT - very succinct. I think that one of the greatest discoveries of the modern era was objectivity. I should hope that this method of thinking be passed on to students, rather than just getting them to believe as we (or the teacher) do(es).

[Argus]

A division in Winnipeg has bought Ipads for all its junior high leanrers. This is a great innovative initiative that will enage learners. School needs to be fun in order for learners to learn properly.

Nonsense. School was rarely fun for me, yet my math, english, geography, history and other skills are far superior to most of the poor denizens of todays schools. Then again, I went through school before the fashionistas of the educational establishment decided schools needed to be 'fun' and began rotating their oh-so-fashionable pet theories through the schools every other year.

More to the point, even a cursory review of the historical tests students were once required to pass shows just how much they were expected to learn compared to today's kids.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Argus

[socialist]

Nonsense. School was rarely fun for me, yet my math, english, geography, history and other skills are far superior to most of the poor denizens of todays schools. Then again, I went through school before the fashionistas of the educational establishment decided schools needed to be 'fun' and began rotating their oh-so-fashionable pet theories through the schools every other year.

More to the point, even a cursory review of the historical tests students were once required to pass shows just how much they were expected to learn compared to today's kids.

Balderdash! If learners aren't engaged and having fun, they aren't learning properly. Like I said many times, long division, long multiplication, cursive writing, memorizing geography facts is not useful education anymore. Arguing with you people who haven't stepped foot in a modern classroom in a long time is like banging my head against the wall. We accomodate every learner and the many different learning styles that are presented. I teach the collective, not the individual.

[Argus]

Balderdash! If learners aren't engaged and having fun, they aren't learning properly. Like I said many times, long division, long multiplication, cursive writing, memorizing geography facts is not useful education anymore. Arguing with you people who haven't stepped foot in a modern classroom in a long time is like banging my head against the wall. We accomodate every learner and the many different learning styles that are presented. I teach the collective, not the individual.

Balderdash? Strange word for someone allegedly young to be using. In fact, most people under thirty wouldn't even know what the word means.

And there is no 'proper' learning, there is merely learning. There is no question that the old styles functioned. There is enormous question about whether the various new, fashionable teaching methods work very well at all.

[Wilber]

Wife and I took a couple of the grand kids to Tims after their soccer today. Trainee kid at till. Ordered two medium coffees and three donuts. Other kid had ice cream which wife bought separately. Total $6.33. Handed kid a ten, then said, wait I have 35 cents but he had already punched the ten in. Handed him the 35 cents and then he looked really confused and said "now I have to do some math". I said, you owe me four bucks. He said "OK, If you say so, I'll take your word for it."

Ain't innovation in public schools wonderful. Educating a generation that is absolutely screwed if their smart phone battery goes dead.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Wilber

[socialist]

Wife and I took a couple of the grand kids to Tims after their soccer today. Trainee kid at till. Ordered two medium coffees and three donuts. Other kid had ice cream which wife bought separately. Total $6.33. Handed kid a ten, then said, wait I have 35 cents but he had already punched the ten in. Handed him the 35 cents and then he looked really confused and said "now I have to do some math". I said, you owe me four bucks. He said "OK, If you say so, I'll take your word for it."

Ain't innovation in public schools wonderful. Educating a generation that is absolutely screwed if their smart phone battery goes dead.

Smartphones are a wonderful tool in the classroom. Welcome to 21st century learning, wilber. Life is more than making change, which is what too many people think math is.

[Wilber]

Smartphones are a wonderful tool in the classroom. Welcome to 21st century learning, wilber. Life is more than making change, which is what too many people think math is.

Give me a break. Without his electronic crutch, the kid couldn't manage a basic arithmatic problem that any seven year old could have done in his head 20 years ago. You call that progress? I call it criminal.

[jacee]

ipads-for-winnipeg-students-the-pros-and-cons-of-high-tech-learning

Right on the mark.

Conference Board of Canada:

Canada Gets a D on the Innovation Report Card

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/default.aspx

Despite a decade or so of innovation agendas and prosperity reports, Canada remains near the bottom of its peer group on innovation, ranking 13th among the 16 peer countries. Canada performs poorly on most of the 21 indicators, scoring 13 Ds, 2 Cs, 6 Bs, and no As.

The D grades underline Canadas relative weakness in all three categories of the innovation process - creation, diffusion, and transformation.Canada is well supplied with good universities, engineering schools, teaching hospitals, and technical institutes. It produces science that is well respected around the world. But, with some exceptions, Canada does not take the steps that other countries take to ensure research can be successfully commercialized and used as a source of advantage for innovative companies seeking global market share. Canadian companies are thus rarely at the leading edge of new technology and too often find themselves a generation or more behind the productivity growth achieved by global industry leaders.

Canadas low ranking matters. Innovation is essential to a high-performing economy. Countries that are more innovative are passing Canada on measures such as income per capita, productivity, and the quality of social programs. It is also critical to environmental protection, a high-performing education system, a well-functioning system of health promotion and health care, and an inclusive society. Without innovation, all these systems stagnate and Canadas performance deteriorates relative to that of its peers.

Dinosaurs beware: The "good ole days" were too slow.

It's the 'young upstarts' we need.

Edited September 19, 2013 by jacee

[socialist]

Right on the mark.

Conference Board of Canada:

Canada Gets a D on the Innovation Report Card

Despite a decade or so of innovation agendas and prosperity reports, Canada remains near the bottom of its peer group on innovation, ranking 13th among the 16 peer countries. Canada performs poorly on most of the 21 indicators, scoring 13 Ds, 2 Cs, 6 Bs, and no As.

The D grades underline Canadas relative weakness in all three categories of the innovation process - creation, diffusion, and transformation.Canada is well supplied with good universities, engineering schools, teaching hospitals, and technical institutes. It produces science that is well respected around the world. But, with some exceptions, Canada does not take the steps that other countries take to ensure research can be successfully commercialized and used as a source of advantage for innovative companies seeking global market share. Canadian companies are thus rarely at the leading edge of new technology and too often find themselves a generation or more behind the productivity growth achieved by global industry leaders.

Canadas low ranking matters. Innovation is essential to a high-performing economy. Countries that are more innovative are passing Canada on measures such as income per capita, productivity, and the quality of social programs. It is also critical to environmental protection, a high-performing education system, a well-functioning system of health promotion and health care, and an inclusive society. Without innovation, all these systems stagnate and Canadas performance deteriorates relative to that of its peers.

Dinosaurs beware: The "good ole days" were too slow.

It's the 'young upstarts' we need.

Good post. Ipads in every classroom is the beginning of turning Canada into a technological leader. Young learners need to learn at their own pace. Educators need to be more of a facilitator than a transfer of useless knowledge like yesteryears.

[jacee]

And there is no 'proper' learning, there is merely learning. There is no question that the old styles functioned. There is enormous question about whether the various new, fashionable teaching methods work very well at all.

"Old styles" ... like the graduates of the '40's? '50's? '60's?

Those generations have lower literacy skills than the youngsters.

And the literacy problem is now at the top end ... the achievements of the innovaters are being squashed ... by stodgy old conservatives I bet.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-004-x/2007006/article/10528-eng.htm

However, while there have been improvements in literacy at the low end of the literacy distribution, there has been a deterioration in those skills at the top end.

[socialist]

"Old styles" ... like the graduates of the '40's? '50's? '60's?

Those generations have lower literacy skills than the youngsters.

And the literacy problem is now at the top end ... the achievements of the innovaters are being squashed ... by stodgy old conservatives I bet.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-004-x/2007006/article/10528-eng.htm

However, while there have been improvements in literacy at the low end of the literacy distribution, there has been a deterioration in those skills at the top end.

Present day public schools are MUCH more challenging than the schools of the 50s to 80s. Most of the criticism comes from people who haven't stepped foot in a school in decades. They also may be jealous that today's learners are MUCH more prepared for the world than they were. There seems to be a lot of people like that on this forum.

[Bonam]

Wife and I took a couple of the grand kids to Tims after their soccer today. Trainee kid at till. Ordered two medium coffees and three donuts. Other kid had ice cream which wife bought separately. Total $6.33. Handed kid a ten, then said, wait I have 35 cents but he had already punched the ten in. Handed him the 35 cents and then he looked really confused and said "now I have to do some math". I said, you owe me four bucks. He said "OK, If you say so, I'll take your word for it."

Ain't innovation in public schools wonderful. Educating a generation that is absolutely screwed if their smart phone battery goes dead.

Few people of any generation can do arithmetic beyond adding single-digit numbers in their head quickly enough for it to be efficient. The trainee kid will learn on the job, arithmetic is one of the skills he will practice. Assuming his pay depends at all on how many customers he processes, he'll want to do it as quickly as possible, and that will mean getting good at mental arithmetic. That being said, being able to do mental arithmetic quickly and efficiently is a very useful skill to have, it's just not a common one except for people whose job requires it.

[The_Squid]

...

Edited September 15, 2013 by The_Squid

[Argus]

"Old styles" ... like the graduates of the '40's? '50's? '60's?

Those generations have lower literacy skills than the youngsters.

And the literacy problem is now at the top end ... the achievements of the innovaters are being squashed ... by stodgy old conservatives I bet.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-004-x/2007006/article/10528-eng.htm

However, while there have been improvements in literacy at the low end of the literacy distribution, there has been a deterioration in those skills at the top end.

Your cite does not support the claims you make.Quite the contrary. It specifically says This finding that older age cohorts graduated with higher literacy skills than younger people today holds across the age distribution.

[Argus]

Present day public schools are MUCH more challenging than the schools of the 50s to 80s. Most of the criticism comes from people who haven't stepped foot in a school in decades. They also may be jealous that today's learners are MUCH more prepared for the world than they were. There seems to be a lot of people like that on this forum.

I think most of the critiism is coming from university professors required to hold remedial classes in English and Mathematics because the public schools have failed to educate substantial numbers of students to the levels required for post-secondary education. It also comes from parents distressed to find their children unable to read or do basic arithmetic.

[jacee]

Your cite does not support the claims you make.Quite the contrary. It specifically says This finding that older age cohorts graduated with higher literacy skills than younger people today holds across the age distribution.

You're right. My how the data changes in the 20 years since I used it! Used to be the older generations had lower skills because fewer graduated from high school, which had tuition charges until the 1950's, and dropout rates were high through the 60's as you could still get a job without graduating.

The 'older generations' now are graduates of the 70's and 80's, fully funded through secondary with strong focus on staying in school and declining dropout rates.

Hmm ... In the 70's and 80's people were freaking out about the literacy skills of THOSE students! That freaking out spawned the whole testing-testing-testing accountability movement which has improved the bottom end - % of students meeting minimum requirements - but stunted the top end creative, innovative self-directed learners through the 90's to now.

So ... people may be right that we should take some lessons from the free-wheeling creative-learning-can-be-fun 70's and 80's teaching! It seems the skills of those graduates are superior to those of the students of today who have been stunted by test-test-test.

Who'da thunk!

So now we're back to socialist's concept of improving technology and innovation in schools to push the envelope at the top end.

And it seems the correct course of action.

Edited September 15, 2013 by jacee

[jacee]

I think most of the critiism is coming from university professors required to hold remedial classes in English and Mathematics because the public schools have failed to educate substantial numbers of students to the levels required for post-secondary education. It also comes from parents distressed to find their children unable to read or do basic arithmetic.

Ya I heard one complain about that. I asked him how much writing his university students do. He said none until 3rd year -virtually all mulitple choice assignments/tests until then: Too many students, too much marking.

So students are supposed to magically write at graduate level with no practice-and-feedback in postsecondary and two years deterioration in unused writing skills?

That said ... it does appear that top end students aren't reaching potential in this test-for-minimum-competency 90's+ environment.

And computers are the tools for researching and writing ... further support for all students having ipads (or equivalent).

[Topaz]

I like the joke that students who had trouble with math, went on to become ......Bankers! The thinking was the fall of the financial sector in 2008.

[jacee]

I like the joke that students who had trouble with math, went on to become ......Bankers! The thinking was the fall of the financial sector in 2008.

I read something that said philosophy grads did better at math than accountants: Using logic, reasoning, deduction, induction etc. Phil.grads also grasp ethics ...

Thus, maybe we need Phil. grads for bankers.

[Wilber]

Few people of any generation can do arithmetic beyond adding single-digit numbers in their head quickly enough for it to be efficient. The trainee kid will learn on the job, arithmetic is one of the skills he will practice. Assuming his pay depends at all on how many customers he processes, he'll want to do it as quickly as possible, and that will mean getting good at mental arithmetic. That being said, being able to do mental arithmetic quickly and efficiently is a very useful skill to have, it's just not a common one except for people whose job requires it.

No it sure isn't common if you can't do it. It's impossible. If you do 12 years in school and can't do simple addition and subtraction up to 100, the system has failed miserably. It should be as easy as tieing your shoes. 12 years of education and you can't even figure out change from a dollar without a calculator for cripes sake. There are two people involved in every transaction at a cash register, the one buying and the one selling. At least one of them should know what the hell they are doing.

[Bonam]

No it sure isn't common if you can't do it. It's impossible. If you do 12 years in school and can't do simple addition and subtraction up to 100, the system has failed miserably. It should be as easy as tieing your shoes.

A lot of shoes don't need tying these days. Tying shoes, like mental arithmetic, will one day be a lost art.

[Mighty AC]

Good post. Ipads in every classroom is the beginning of turning Canada into a technological leader. Young learners need to learn at their own pace. Educators need to be more of a facilitator than a transfer of useless knowledge like yesteryears.

You're right that educators need to facilitate learning rather than being just the bearer of knowledge. However, devices are tools...not solutions. In my experience, too many teachers use tablets to generate busy work rather than as a tool to complement great inquiry based lessons. It is important to engage students, but we must be mindful of what we are engaging them in. Far too many of the apps used are simply electronic version of that olde tymey rote learning that you rightly criticize.

My second point is that tablets are not a great fit for every class. At the young primary level they are generally the best option, but get less useful as the kids age. Tablets are poor document or content generation devices, so in my opinion, something like Chromebooks or traditional laptops are a better tool for middle school kids and older. Kids that age tend to be already armed with phones and iPods so adding tabs doesn't really add value.

Finally, of the available tabs Ipads are, IMO, the worst option. Schools do not getting big discounts on Apple devices so good quality Android tabs are generally 25-40% less expensive. Plus, there are far more free Android apps and the paid apps are generally cheaper. It's always better to get more for taxpayer money, but when considering that education funding almost never provides a maintenance or replacement budget for tech, having some (25 to 40%) more devices in storage is a necessity.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Wilber]

A lot of shoes don't need tying these days. Tying shoes, like mental arithmetic, will one day be a lost art.

Enjoy your slip ons and Velcro. At least kids are still required to have the ability to tie their shoes when they go to school.

So what happens when one of these progressively educated kids punches the wrong key and a BS number comes out? Who will know and if they do, who will straighten it out, his progressively educated customers and supervisors or do they all go duh, it must be right, the machine says so?

Call me old fashioned but I like to know if someone screws up when my money is involved. Throw just a little confusion into a transaction and the geezers can take these progressively educated kids to the cleaners.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Wilber