What to do with Canada Post?

[The_Squid]

The point is not that the private sector couldn't do it, it's that they wouldn't do it because there would be no money in it. I you don't subsidize services to remote places, they won't have mail service.

I don't get why that's difficult to understand...

[overthere]

The point is not that the private sector couldn't do it, it's that they wouldn't do it because there would be no money in it. I you don't subsidize services to remote places, they won't have mail service.

Could you do me a favour and pay attention?

Thanks.

Of course the private sector will do it, they do it right now for a profit in thousands of places in Canada. I'm sure you've noticed how Canada Psot retails their services everywhere.

Give Valupharm in Iqaluit $10 per letter to do what thousands of privatized postal operations already do in gas stations, grocery stores and drugstores do in rural and urban Canada: sell a stamp and put a letter in a square hole. It's peanuts, but it gets Canada Post and taxpayers off the hook for all those fat salaries, pensions, benefits, huge operating costs and capital replacement costs in remote places.

Unless you have a different agenda, why would you resent operational efficiencies in this vital national service?

Universal delivery for everybody at a reasonable price? Done.

[Wilber]

Could you do me a favour and pay attention?

Thanks.

Of course the private sector will do it, they do it right now for a profit in thousands of places in Canada. I'm sure you've noticed how Canada Psot retails their services everywhere.

Give Valupharm in Iqaluit $10 per letter to do what thousands of privatized postal operations already do in gas stations, grocery stores and drugstores do in rural and urban Canada: sell a stamp and put a letter in a square hole. It's peanuts, but it gets Canada Post and taxpayers off the hook for all those fat salaries, pensions, benefits, huge operating costs and capital replacement costs in remote places.

Unless you have a different agenda, why would you resent operational efficiencies in this vital national service?

Universal delivery for everybody at a reasonable price? Done.

Because Canada Post hires private companies doesn't mean they would be profitable providing that service on their own. These privatized postal operations are contracted by Canada Post to provide a postal service to those communities. What do you mean by giving someone $10 to mail a letter? How is that supposed to work?

[segnosaur]

The point is not that the private sector couldn't do it, it's that they wouldn't do it because there would be no money in it. I you don't subsidize services to remote places, they won't have mail service.

Do you well and truly honestly believe that? Really?

How exactly do you think all these remote towns get their food? Their clothing? Think those people living north of the Arctic circle still live in igloos and hunt seals for food? Those companies are getting regular deliveries, so someone must think its profitable to bring stuff up there.

You know, I got curious and went to the FedEx web site... did a search on some of the smaller towns in the North West territories (towns with < 1000 people) and found that even they (a private sector company) will deliver up there. Yes, it was expensive. Quite expensive. But they think there's money to be made so they offer the service.

[segnosaur]

The point is not that the private sector couldn't do it, it's that they wouldn't do it because there would be no money in it. I you don't subsidize services to remote places, they won't have mail service.

I don't get why that's difficult to understand...

Probably because evidence suggests he's wrong.

FedEx (a private company) will supposedly ship to small remote towns in Northern Canada. So obviously there is money to be made for offering the service. Its definitely expensive (although they do suffer from lack of economy-of-scale), but claiming they "wouldn't have mail service" seems to be completely wrong.

[Wilber]

They wouldn't because no one could afford it.

[overthere]

They don't have to afford it.

You're being deliberately obtuse.

[Wilber]

They don't have to afford it.

You're being deliberately obtuse.

What do you mean they don't have to afford it? They just go without?

I think you are the one being obtuse. Why do you think a Canadian in Kuujjuaq should have to pay ten or fifteen times as much to send a letter to Montreal as you do to anywhere else in the world? I'm constantly amazed at how parochial Canadians can be and how many of them live in cities.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Wilber

[Big Guy]

There are some problems when we stop door to door delivery:

http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2015/12/22/road-closed-due-to-collision

and

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/female-pedestrian-hit-killed-river-road-manotick-1.3317029

Edited December 23, 2015 by Big Guy

[Smallc]

Door to door delivery is a relic of the past that less than 30% of Canadians enjoy. We don't need it.

[Machjo]

I say privatize Canada Post. If we fear the formation of a natural monopoly, then maybe convert it into a cunsumers' co-op.

[Smallc]

I say privatize Canada Post. If we fear the formation of a natural monopoly, then maybe convert it into a cunsumers' co-op.

I'm fine with the idea of privatizing Canada Post. There would still have to be some kind of system to ensure that mail is delivered and picked up to all parts of the country for a reasonable cost though.

[Machjo]

I'm fine with the idea of privatizing Canada Post. There would still have to be some kind of system to ensure that mail is delivered and picked up to all parts of the country for a reasonable cost though.

If we convert it into a consumers' co-op, then every member would get to elect the board of directors to make that decision in a democratic manner according to the will of the majority.

Should the Government believe that rural populations need more help, then it could just lower the rural tax rate.

[Machjo]

What do you mean they don't have to afford it? They just go without?

I think you are the one being obtuse. Why do you think a Canadian in Kuujjuaq should have to pay ten or fifteen times as much to send a letter to Montreal as you do to anywhere else in the world? I'm constantly amazed at how parochial Canadians can be and how many of them live in cities.

Why would one choose to live in Kuujjuak? Let the market decide.

[Big Guy]

Is postal service a right or a privilege?

If it is a right then it should be available to all.

If it is a privilege then it should be available to those who can afford it.

With current technologies, I believe that it is a privilege.

[Smallc]

Is postal service a right or a privilege?

If it is a right then it should be available to all.

If it is a privilege then it should be available to those who can afford it.

With current technologies, I believe that it is a privilege.

I would say that even today, every place in the country needs mail service twice a week - once at the least. No one in the country needs door to door.

[Big Guy]

I wonder just how much service we "need"? Fax, photocopy and printed documents are now accepted as legal documents. The idea of having to convey a piece of paper with writing on it across Canada is becoming redundant. Private services now provide fast and efficient transfer of important materials across our globe.

Why do you feel that we need mail service twice a week - or even once a week?

[Smallc]

I wonder just how much service we "need"? Fax, photocopy and printed documents are now accepted as legal documents. The idea of having to convey a piece of paper with writing on it across Canada is becoming redundant. Private services now provide fast and efficient transfer of important materials across our globe.

Why do you feel that we need mail service twice a week - or even once a week?

Well, first of all, you can't get a parcel in a rural or remote area for the most part without Canada Post. Secondly, there are still things such as passports and birth certificates that need to actually get somewhere. Currently, the place I live gets mail 3 times per week. Some days there is a great deal, and some days there is almost none. Two days per week would probably be sufficient for here. For other places, 1 day a week would do. There is no place that can operate properly without at least 1 mail day per week.

[Smoke]

Well, first of all, you can't get a parcel in a rural or remote area for the most part without Canada Post. Secondly, there are still things such as passports and birth certificates that need to actually get somewhere. Currently, the place I live gets mail 3 times per week. Some days there is a great deal, and some days there is almost none. Two days per week would probably be sufficient for here. For other places, 1 day a week would do. There is no place that can operate properly without at least 1 mail day per week.

Nonsense, we live in a rural area and get parcels delivered right to our door. All of our utility bills are sent to us electronically and paid electronically as well. All our banking is done online. Most of my major clients use direct deposit when making payment, the rest come once a month thru snail mail. If it wasn't for the minor clients, I wouldn't even need CP.

I will say, I don't know how we would get the ton of waste each month in the form of junk mail, that ends up in a landfill site somewhere.

[Smallc]

Nonsense, we live in a rural area and get parcels delivered right to our door.

Then you don't live in what I'd consider a rural area. The nearest parcel service, other than Canada Post and Gardewine North (and they aren't bringing it anywhere near your door), is an hour away.

[Smoke]

Then you don't live in what I'd consider a rural area. The nearest parcel service, other than Canada Post and Gardewine North (and they aren't bringing it anywhere near your door), is an hour away.

Fine then, change the definition of rural to suit your argument.

[overthere]

Then you don't live in what I'd consider a rural area. The nearest parcel service, other than Canada Post and Gardewine North (and they aren't bringing it anywhere near your door), is an hour away.

Yep, there are many services that have never been and will never be as good in RR1 , Dognuts, SK as they are on Queen Street. Yet many feel the quality of life at RR1, Dognuts SK is superior to living in downtown Toronto.

Life is full of choices, and the choices we make all have consequences. So many Canadians have this self righteous sense of entitlement that their personal choices and consequences should be paid for by others. Too bad for them I reckon.

I lost mail service to my door 6 months ago, makes zero difference to anybody here except the chronic whiners. They should have cut doorstep service to the whole country in the 1980s, instead of expecting the rest to subsidize this little treat to a few.

[Smallc]

I'm fine with cutting things to the bare minimum. There still needs to be a bare minimum. I'm even find with zoned prices, as there now is for parcels, being introduced for letter mail as well. There are many things we can do to make the postal service more profitable while still allowing it to perform a necessary service to all Canadians.

[overthere]

Consider the ratio of first class mail volumes in most of Canada vs the amount of mail volume in , say, Nunavut. Consider that Canada Post uses private sector aircraft to deliver all mail to those places, and the same plane service is available to , say, Fedex. We already massively subsidize the cost of delivery of a letter to Iqaluit or Dog Nuts, SK. That does not have to change if Fedex filled the community mail boxes in those places. Option: dump the mail bags at the airport and let a community based contractor take over the simple job of putting the letter in a mail slot, and selling stamps: as already happens many places.

Canada Post should be allowed and encourgaged to execute their business plan within government priorities that respect that this is 2015, not 1915.

Letter mail is on deaths door, let it go. Parcel delivery will soar. Let Canada Post bepart of that.

[Smallc]

Where did I argue against any of that?