What to do with Canada Post?

[Smallc]

Sure, but not necessarily to the doorstep.

Something that, at the moment, about 32% of people have...how fair.

[Boges]

Something that, at the moment, about 32% of people have...how fair.

And of course the instances of seniors breaking hips picking up the mail has skyrocketed hasn't it?

[overthere]

Something that, at the moment, about 32% of people have...how fair.

Agreed, we can all manage to pick it up from a community box.

Now. let's let Canada Post get on with their business plan to survive in a dying industry, without our subsidy.

[The_Squid]

Agreed, we can all manage to pick it up from a community box.

Now. let's let Canada Post get on with their business plan to survive in a dying industry, without our subsidy.

What subsidy is that?

[Boges]

What subsidy is that?

If anything it's the law that forbids anyone from undercutting them.

[Wilber]

If anything it's the law that forbids anyone from undercutting them.

Any courier company can compete with them if they want. Purolator is is 91% owned by Canada Post.

[Boges]

Any courier company can compete with them if they want. Purolator is is 91% owned by Canada Post.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-ending-canada-posts-monopoly-would-benefit-taxpayers-and-consumers

And yet all the while it was withdrawing service from wider and wider swaths of the country the corporation was insisting on maintaining its “exclusive privilege” in first-class mail — under the Canada Post Corporation Act, it is illegal for anyone but the post office to deliver a letter for less than three times the price of a stamp — on the grounds that it would otherwise be unable to provide universal service.

[Wilber]

What do you think UPS would charge you to deliver a letter to Alexis Creek, Sioux Lookout, Chibougamau or Labrador City? Universal service is important in a country like ours.

[segnosaur]

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-ending-canada-posts-monopoly-would-benefit-taxpayers-and-consumers

it is illegal for anyone but the post office to deliver a letter for less than three times the price of a stamp

Just a note:

Indeed no courier company can offer service for less than that of Canada Post. For the most part, this is only of interest to those in urban centers. Delivery between points within a city might be relatively inexpensive and a courier company could (in theory) offer the service at a competitive price. The problem is the cost of delivering mail outside of the urban center; Since Canada post has a uniform stamp price, it uses its lower-cost inside-city deliveries to subsidize outside-the-city deliveries.

[segnosaur]

What do you think UPS would charge you to deliver a letter to Alexis Creek, Sioux Lookout, Chibougamau or Labrador City? Universal service is important in a country like ours.

Yes, "universal service" is important. The question is, who should pay for those services.

Some might be of the opinion that if it is your decision to live in the middle of no-where for whatever reason (you like the solitude, you need to be there for work, etc.), then you should be willing to pay more for those particular services, and that its unfair for those within a city to pay extra for whatever lifestyle or economic choices someone else might make.

[Boges]

What do you think UPS would charge you to deliver a letter to Alexis Creek, Sioux Lookout, Chibougamau or Labrador City? Universal service is important in a country like ours.

Just a note:

Indeed no courier company can offer service for less than that of Canada Post. For the most part, this is only of interest to those in urban centers. Delivery between points within a city might be relatively inexpensive and a courier company could (in theory) offer the service at a competitive price. The problem is the cost of delivering mail outside of the urban center; Since Canada post has a uniform stamp price, it uses its lower-cost inside-city deliveries to subsidize outside-the-city deliveries.

Perhaps that system needs to be looked at to keep Canada Post relevant. Is the price of any service uniform from rural to urban areas depending on availability?

It's ironic that people that live directly outside urban areas are often demonized by the left because they chose to live a life that requires a car.

Yet people can live in far flung rural communities and demand the same quality of service as those that live in cities. And I can look at first Nations Communities as guilty of this.

[Wilber]

It's called Canada Post for a reason.

[overthere]

Indeed no courier company can offer service for less than that of Canada Post.

nope, that is not true

Urban deliveries can be done for far less than the current $.80 per item by the private sector.

Now calculate the volume of mail going to Iqaluit or Pangnirtung or Dognuts SK. It is absolutely miniscule, of no real consequence. So do we subsidize the delivery of little mail to the little communities, or subsidize Canada Post to the tune of a billion or two per year every year? I know which one is my pick.

[overthere]

It's called Canada Post for a reason.

I agree that the govt has a responsibility to deliver mail to all of us. There is nothing cast in granite that says Canada Post has to do it entirely . Canada Post itself knows it cannot compete for all the business and doesn't right now.

[Wilber]

I agree that the govt has a responsibility to deliver mail to all of us. There is nothing cast in granite that says Canada Post has to do it entirely . Canada Post itself knows it cannot compete for all the business and doesn't right now.

No it doesn't but it provides services that no one else will and some of it is done by contract employees.

nope, that is not true

Urban deliveries can be done for far less than the current $.80 per item by the private sector.

Now calculate the volume of mail going to Iqaluit or Pangnirtung or Dognuts SK. It is absolutely miniscule, of no real consequence. So do we subsidize the delivery of little mail to the little communities, or subsidize Canada Post to the tune of a billion or two per year every year? I know which one is my pick.

So what, we are a country, not a collection of city states.

[segnosaur]

And 2014 was a big profit to the tune of $200 Million.

So the status quo is a moneymaker.

This point has been debunked before.

Once again... Canada post as a whole may turn a profit, but home delivery operates at a loss. Canada post uses courier services to help turn a profit. However, no rational business will let a profitable part of the company subsidize unprofitable parts indefinitely without a reason.

Furthermore, Canada post may not be quite as profitable as you might think...

From: http://globalnews.ca/news/1023396/seven-things-to-know-about-canada-posts-plan-to-axe-mail-service/

Canada Post has been selling off century-old offices and real estate to avoid losses...

In general, selling off assets to avoid a loss is not a profitable business model.

The Internet was around way before 2011.

While the internet was around before 2011, its usage has been increasing. First class mail delivery was becoming less and less financially viable for years. And between 2011 and today, 3 million more people are internet users.

There has been a gradual erosion of Canada Post's usage base for years. There was no single "ah ha" moment when you can say the internet became relevant to Canada's post business... it was a gradual chance, but it happened.

So all this nonsense about needing to change home delivery is purely ideological. It can be a profitable company doing what it's doing.

Once again... the only reason it can afford home delivery is because successful parts of its business are subsidizing the non-successful parts.

And because it has sold off assets.

Neither of these tasks is a viable long-term solution.

Now that these facts have been explained to you multiple times, are you going to go back and start squaking like a brain-damaged parrot "Raack Canada post is profitable" or are you actually going to let it sink in? First class main delivery is not profitable.

[segnosaur]

Indeed no courier company can offer service for less than that of Canada Post.

nope, that is not true

Urban deliveries can be done for far less than the current $.80 per item by the private sector.

I think you're arguing semantics here...

Its possible for private companies to do urban deliveries for less than Canada post. They are just forbidden to do so by law.

[Wilber]

I think you're arguing semantics here...

Its possible for private companies to do urban deliveries for less than Canada post. They are just forbidden to do so by law.

It's possible for Canada Post to do them for less as well, but they are also tasked with providing service to places no private companies will. 80 cents to have a letter hand delivered anywhere in the country. What a ripoff.

[segnosaur]

Its possible for private companies to do urban deliveries for less than Canada post. They are just forbidden to do so by law.

It's possible for Canada Post to do them for less as well, but they are also tasked with providing service to places no private companies will. 80 cents to have a letter hand delivered anywhere in the country. What a ripoff.

Actually the person its a 'ripoff' too are the people who live in the urban centers, who have to pay more for a stamp just to subsidize those people who want to live in some remote god forsaken part of the country.

[Wilber]

Actually the person its a 'ripoff' too are the people who live in the urban centers, who have to pay more for a stamp just to subsidize those people who want to live in some remote god forsaken part of the country.

Like I said, might as well just become a collection of city states with nothing in between because you don't seem to understand the concept of country anyway.

[segnosaur]

Like I said, might as well just become a collection of city states with nothing in between because you don't seem to understand the concept of country anyway.

There are so many things tying Canadians together... our shared parliamentary traditions, our love of hockey, our collective shame over the existence of Justin Bieber. I find it odd that you would insist that the ability to send letters to remote areas at low cost (a service that fewer and fewer people actually use) is somehow critical to our national existence.

It should also be noted that nobody here has suggested getting rid of Canada post. The main purpose of this thread was to discuss the existence of superboxes; even if door-to-door delivery ended, Canada post would still have neighborhood delivery (even if some people would need to walk a few yards to their mail box.) The idea of requiring higher prices for remote mail delivery is at best a side issue (and even if such a system were put in place, it would not mean that Canada post would necessarily vanish, just that postal delivery would better reflect actual costs.)

[Wilber]

There are so many things tying Canadians together... our shared parliamentary traditions, our love of hockey, our collective shame over the existence of Justin Bieber. I find it odd that you would insist that the ability to send letters to remote areas at low cost (a service that fewer and fewer people actually use) is somehow critical to our national existence.

It should also be noted that nobody here has suggested getting rid of Canada post. The main purpose of this thread was to discuss the existence of superboxes; even if door-to-door delivery ended, Canada post would still have neighborhood delivery (even if some people would need to walk a few yards to their mail box.) The idea of requiring higher prices for remote mail delivery is at best a side issue (and even if such a system were put in place, it would not mean that Canada post would necessarily vanish, just that postal delivery would better reflect actual costs.)

I didn't start the thread drift. I haven't had mail delivery to my door for over 25 years so the super boxes aren't an issue for me. I think making Canadians pay different rates for basic mail service goes against why a national postal service exists in the first place. If you are going to do that, you might as well ditch the whole thing and go to couriers for everything.

[overthere]

Canada Post has been selling off century-old offices and real estate to avoid losses...

There is a specific reason for that, and it is not to influence the bottom line- that is a fortunate sideshow.

Many CDN cities have traditionally had large downtown buildings c/w coporate office space, traditional post office services. letter carrier depots and most of all processing plants downtown for many decades.

They are a logistical nightmare, occupy valuable space and today serve no purpsowe for the corporations strategy.

Many people including most here do not undertsand that strategfy, although it is not new.

for politcial interference by both Tories and Liberals in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

Canada Post wants out of the stamp selling business. They would be totally out of it long ago if they had not been interfered with polticially and stopped. They wanted to close their very costly buildings and privatize operations in all smaller communites because they are all major money losers, and there was no problem at all finding local businesses willing to take on that role. They were halted in that, although there would be no effective change in how things were done, just a change i who did them.

Because this is the longterm role that CP management sees for their business: LOGISTICS. They have a huge and modern distribution system in all major cities. They can a nd do make money on it. They know lettermail is a dying duck because THE INTERNET.

[overthere]

I think you're arguing semantics here...

Its possible for private companies to do urban deliveries for less than Canada post. They are just forbidden to do so by law.

Many many times major mailers have tried to deliver their own bills, all nailed to the legal cross by Canada Post lawyers protecting the legislated monopoly.

Why would they bother if the service is unprofitable? Answer: it makes them shitloads of money nationally, though less as time goes by. It is also more profitable if they eliminate the unneccesary letter carriers and switching the whole country to community boxes.

But the argument that the private sector cannot deliver to remote places is rubbish. How do you think Canada Post gets a letter to auntie in Iqaluit? First a bag goes on a private sector aircraft, then on a private sector truck to drop it at the corporate post office where soembody in a Canad Post uniform making fat salary plus benefits puts the letters in a rented mail box at the post office. The building is operated at a big loss by Canada Post because the volume of mail is tiny.

What changes if privatized? The same bag goes on the same private plane and same private truck and is dropped off at the ValuPharm drug store to be sorted by somebody making $20 hour, who puts it in the same rented mail box that is now in their store, where they also sell all the same goods and services that used to be in the post office.

You could subisdize every remote cmmunity letter to $10 each and it would barely be noticed on the bottom line, because many of the overhead costs are the same or less under privatization, but most of all the relative volume is TINY in remote communities..

[Wilber]

The point is not that the private sector couldn't do it, it's that they wouldn't do it because there would be no money in it. I you don't subsidize services to remote places, they won't have mail service.