What to do with Canada Post?

[TimG]

One of the functions of government is to provide essential service where private enterprise can't or won't. I can't imagine Kapuskasing or even Baie Comeau (sp) being served by regular mail service without the help of a crown corporation.

Healthcare is provided to all Canadians by contracting private enterprises to provide services (doctors, labs, clinics). Streets and bridges are often built and maintained by private contractors bidding for work paid for by taxpayers. Publicly necessary services can be delivered by private corporations for less cost than having the same services delivered by government employees. There are cases where government employees are the best solution (army, police, tax dept, customs, health inspectors) but mail delivery is not one of those. Edited December 16, 2013 by TimG

[cybercoma]

A lot of those hospitals, although not public sector, are not private enterprise either. They're part of what is referred to as the third-sector or community sector or non-profit sector. All different terms for the same thing.

[Wilber]

There is no reason why these need to be delivered by a crown corporation.

Say you, but the issue is whether a crown corp best suits the need, not an ideological debate about whether they are good or bad.

ROTFL. Spam email is cheaper and probably more effective.

It is an establish fact that junk mail delivery actually subsidizes regular mail delivery. Spam email subsidizes nothing.

Banks are increasing the cost of getting paper statements each year. More and more people will switch to electronic delivery.

Yes but that is to suit the bank's business model, not necessarily their customers needs.

The trouble is Canada Post will eventually start demanding subsidies for rural service and we have no way to separate the subsidies for rural service from the general inefficiency of the organization. I would say that it should be turned into a for profit corporation with no monopoly - but I doubt it could compete given its legacy.

Canada Post would just get stuck with the unprofitable part of the business.

[bush_cheney2004]

...It is an establish fact that junk mail delivery actually subsidizes regular mail delivery. Spam email subsidizes nothing.

Then obviously what is needed is even more junk mail to stuff landfills across the land. Canadians will need bigger mailboxes !

[Wilber]

Then obviously what is needed is even more junk mail to stuff landfills across the land. Canadians will need bigger mailboxes !

So you are saying business should be banned from using the mails to advertise? Sounds like a socialist plot to me.

[bush_cheney2004]

So you are saying business should be banned from using the mails to advertise? Sounds like a socialist plot to me.

Far from it...I am proposing a solution to this thorny problem based on your assertion. If direct marketing (junk) mail is so great, then Canadians need more of it to pay the bills. Everyone likes to get mail, right ? Even if it goes straight to the trash or fireplace. Do you guys get Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes mailings ? Ever win ?

Edited December 16, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

People in rural areas need hi-speed internet more than they need post. Take the money used to subsidize Canada Post and use it to expand hi-speed internet access to areas where the free market cannot justify the investment.

And then those people try to order an ipod online and are told it will cost them an extra $100 to get it delivered by a courier company...

[Argus]

Even if we accept the premise that package delivery is an essential service it seems to me that we would be better served by asking for competitive bids on publicly funded contracts to provide such service than to continue to support a national monopoly.

You don't think Amazon already did that? Apparently CP delivers packages cheaper and more reliably than the courier companies.

[Shady]

You don't think Amazon already did that? Apparently CP delivers packages cheaper and more reliably than the courier companies.

That's just not true. You're not taking into account the acutal operating costs, such as pensions that continue to have gigantic shortfalls.

[Argus]

That's just not true. You're not taking into account the acutal operating costs, such as pensions that continue to have gigantic shortfalls.

You want to bet CP could operate very profitably if they could charge what the courier companies do?

[Shady]

You want to bet CP could operate very profitably if they could charge what the courier companies do?

Maybe they should, instead of running big deficits all the time.

[Argus]

Maybe they should, instead of running big deficits all the time.

So far they've run 1 deficit in 16 years.

[Shady]

So far they've run 1 deficit in 16 years.

Not including the pension shortfalls right?

[Smallc]

Not including the pension shortfalls right?

If you're wrong, just move the goal post.

[Wilber]

Far from it...I am proposing a solution to this thorny problem based on your assertion. If direct marketing (junk) mail is so great, then Canadians need more of it to pay the bills. Everyone likes to get mail, right ? Even if it goes straight to the trash or fireplace. Do you guys get Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes mailings ? Ever win ?

Hey. Just saying that without business advertising, the cost of regular mail would be even higher. Doubt your postal system is any different.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey. Just saying that without business advertising, the cost of regular mail would be even higher. Doubt your postal system is any different.

The cost is not high, and certainly not as high at it soon will be in Canada. If one can't afford the service, then opt out or use a different service.

Last time I checked, cheap postal service was not a Charter right. And neither are bloated pensions.

[Wilber]

Not including the pension shortfalls right?

A pension shortfall means that if the plan were wound up today, there wouldn't be enough funds to provide pensions to all the vested employees at the present level. This funding level is determined by federal pension regulations and is very conservative. A fully funded plan would be able to buy annuities to make all its obligations. At this time I believe the PO plan funding is in the 70+% range and the company is meeting all those obligations. Any annual financial statement would include the extra funds the company is contributing to maintain pensions at that present level, they just haven't contributed the additional funds to bring the plan back to 100% funded within the period prescribed by law. This is where companies are asking government for extensions in the time allowed to bring funding up to 100%,

[Shady]

If you're wrong, just move the goal post.

How is that moving the goal post? It's part of a businesses operating expense. If a private company withheld that information, they could go to jail.

[Wilber]

The cost is not high, and certainly not as high at it soon will be in Canada. If one can't afford the service, then opt out or use a different service.

Last time I checked, cheap postal service was not a Charter right. And neither are bloated pensions.

I think our systems problems are mice nuts compared to yours.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/us-usa-postalservice-finances-idUSBRE98T15X20130930

[bush_cheney2004]

I think our systems problems are mice nuts compared to yours.

Probably, but this isn't about the U.S. Postal Service. Many Canadians get U.S. post office boxes across the border to solve all kinds of cost, tax, and service issues back home. Be sure to tip your letter carrier for Xmas !

Edited December 16, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

Probably, but this isn't about the U.S. Postal Service. Many Canadians get U.S. post office boxes across the border to solve all kinds of cost, tax, and service issues back home. Be sure to tip your letter carrier for Xmas !

I used to have one but got rid of it. I found the only thing it was good for was saving money on magazine postage and I got at least as much junk mail as I do at home. Any time you ship something across a border there are issues and costs involved, regardless of who you use.

Because I live close to the border I can have things shipped to an agent on the other side and pick it up myself. If you think the Post Office is expensive, try UPS brokerage fees. I hear people screaming all the time about paying a $40 brokerage fee on a $15 item and swearing they will never use UPS again to ship anything across the border.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Because I live close to the border I can have things shipped to an agent on the other side and pick it up myself. If you think the Post Office is expensive, try UPS brokerage fees. I hear people screaming all the time about paying a $40 brokerage fee on a $15 item and swearing they will never use UPS again to ship anything across the border.

No doubt....shipping to Canadians after an ebay or other online auction is a pain in the backside. So many fees, delays at customs, poor tracking systems, etc. I won't ship to Canada anymore...too much hassle. Fortunately, many bidders have a U.S. based work around. Seeing "Canada Post" is the kiss of shipping death.

[Wilber]

No doubt....shipping to Canadians after an ebay or other online auction is a pain in the backside. So many fees, delays at customs, poor tracking systems, etc. I won't ship to Canada anymore...too much hassle. Fortunately, many bidders have a U.S. based work around. Seeing "Canada Post" is the kiss of shipping death.

Wouldn't know. I've never had a problem with stuff that was shipped to me by mail. I usually just find it quicker and less expensive to pick it up myself, but I can see the border from my kitchen window, the agent I use is a one block walk on the other side and I have Nexus if I need to take a vehicle across.

[hitops]

The problems of Canada Post are not due to workers or to their salaries or benefits. They're due to changing times and incompetent management. Comparing them to Fedex and the like is fatuous nonsense since couriers charge far, far far more and only really operate within major metropolitan areas.

You're the one who compared them to private couriers genius. BTW changing times IS exactly about salaries and benefits.....current times don't require so many salaries. You are desperate to avoid brining the costs of labor at any cost for whatever reason, when it is the central issue. What the cause of those costs are doesn't matter, the point, and the only point that matters, is that those costs exceed the demand for those services. Apart from this, there is no issue here.

And Canada Post does too, or did until 2011. That was the first year in which it lost money. Surprised?

Is that supposed to impress someone? When you start losing money, you adapt. Unless you don't have to, at the cost of the taxpayer of course.

[hitops]

No, they wouldn't, because they hire their friends and colleagues, and there's a lot of back patting going on, and little told them to any kind of responsible enumeration. Besides, it's become a point of pride for these guys that they're such a great company their CEO deserves to be paid tens of millions to run the place.

In the 1980s corporate CEOs were paid 42 times the average worker salaries. Now it's 343 times the average worker salary.

Are you dumb enough to think the CEOs of today are almost ten times smarter and better than they were in the 1980s?

Are you dumb enough to ask question like this? Apparently. It makes no difference what the CEO makes. Large companies are run by boards, not secret cabals of conspirators. Boards hire CEO's to make money, not to be friends with. If they suck, they dumb them. Welcome to business 101, a world you have no passing familiarity with. Your theory makes no sense at all, as it would run against the very incentives you criticize corporation for having.