What to do with Canada Post?

[Argus]

With the Detroit bankruptcy, maybe public sector pensions may not be as safe as they seem.

At least they put the former Detroir mayor in prison, which is what they should have done to most of the CEOs and high ranking executives of America's banking institutions.

In other countries they'd have stood these guys up against a wall as an example for those who followed.

[Argus]

What you mean to say is that you believe it's been discredited, but don't actually understand it nor understand any supposedly arguments against it. You likewise, have not offered a counter-argument.

These are the facts of the collapse. The government removed the risk from risky behavior, and risky behavior flourished. We have a very similar phenomenon happening in Canada, with the exact same strategy of allowing bank risk to be bourne on the taxpayer.

Another worshiper at the alter of the great god FOX.

You talk about Canada. If any government removed the risk it was the Canadian government, which guaranteed virtually every mortgage loan which didn't have a sizeable down payment. Yet we saw no mortgage crisis here, nor did any of the banks need to be bailed out.

The difference, in the US, was that the banks eliminated their risk by packaging up mortgages and selling them as investment vehicles to others, others who had assumed these were valid mortgages, even though the banks were deliberately flouting the rules and regulations and not conducting any valid oversight. Adn they sold these knowing they were crap.

As for the government, its major role was in putting lap dogs into place in oversight agencies -- largely because they were bribed to do so by the big banks. Likewise rules were relaxed because the banks paid them to relax those rules. You want to simply blame the government because you've been trained that government is always bad by your great God FOX, and that corporations are always right. But the facts are the fiancial industry was 100% responsible for the collapse.

[Argus]

That's simply not true at all.

Right, cause you'd know that better than me, eh?

[bush_cheney2004]

...You talk about Canada. If any government removed the risk it was the Canadian government, which guaranteed virtually every mortgage loan which didn't have a sizeable down payment. Yet we saw no mortgage crisis here, nor did any of the banks need to be bailed out.

Canadian banks were "bailed out" by government in Canada and the U.S.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/banks-got-114b-from-governments-during-recession-1.1145997

[Argus]

So-called decent benefits shouldn't be provided by ponzi scheme defined benefit pension plans, that require the tax payer to kick in the overwhelming amount.

This argument has been made before (unsurpisingly) by the corporate propaganda channels. In reality, government was required to kick in a certain amount, just as the employees were. But they failed to do so. THEY decided they would simply fund their future pension obligations out of future taxes. But what happened to those future taxes? Oh, right! Tax cuts! Then more tax cuts! Then still more tax cuts! Politicians, in large measure funded by corporate America, smiled and waved and waved big scissors as they continued to slash taxes, and governments went deeper and deeper into debt. Oh, suddenly we don't have money to pay for the pensions we agreed to!

Why, those rotten union bastards! It's all their fault! They're greedy! They're bankrupting us!

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh, right! Tax cuts! Then more tax cuts! Then still more tax cuts! Politicians, in large measure funded by corporate America, smiled and waved and waved big scissors as they continued to slash taxes, and governments went deeper and deeper into debt.

In Canada ? Either way, taxpayer income does not belong to the government or the unions. I think we have found the problem here.

[Shady]

In Canada ? Either way, taxpayer income does not belong to the government or the unions. I think we have found the problem here.

Yep, don't you know us serfs exist so that public workers don't have to contribute the necessary funds for their retirement? And if that doesn't sit well with us, were to complain to our bosses for more money. Regardless of whether budgets are able to meet the new demand. It's quite the racket!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

.... And if that doesn't sit well with us, were to complain to our bosses for more money. Regardless of whether budgets are able to meet the new demand. It's quite the racket!!!

Indeed...the public employee unions want to use the coercive power of government to force taxpayers to pay for their gold plated pensions. Such a deal !

[Argus]

Canadian banks were "bailed out" by government in Canada and the U.S.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/banks-got-114b-from-governments-during-recession-1.1145997

No, they weren't.

[Argus]

In Canada ? Either way, taxpayer income does not belong to the government or the unions. I think we have found the problem here.

Society costs money to run. It's that basic and that simple. If you starve society of funds you wind up with anarchy, and a 'every man for himself' society like they have in the US.

[bush_cheney2004]

Society costs money to run. It's that basic and that simple. If you starve society of funds you wind up with anarchy, and a 'every man for himself' society like they have in the US.

No, and you don't live in the "US" anyway. The wages of workers do not belong to government just because public labour unions and government strike a bad/stupid bargain. It is not the government's money. This is a basic concept that is easy to understand.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, they weren't.

Yes they were...to the tune of $114 billion, and the USA bailed out Canadian banks who got in trouble "states side". Nothing you say can ever change this fact.

[Argus]

No, and you don't live in the "US" anyway. The wages of workers do not belong to government just because public labour unions and government strike a bad/stupid bargain. It is not the government's money. This is a basic concept that is easy to understand.

Here's another concept that's easy to understand. Government is how society runs itself. And government runs on money. You starve government of money you starve society of the means to operate properly for all members.

In the US, and to a lesser extent, in Canada, many of the wealthier members of society have been coordinating efforts to starve government of money because they feel they're so wealthy there is nothing government provides that they need, and they do not wish to contribute anything to society. They don't care what happens to society because they can provide entirely for themselves. I understand this, as people are generally selfish. What I don't understand is all the dumb people who agree with them, apparently completely oblivious to the fact that they are the ones who will suffer if these wealthier elements get their way.

[Boges]

When you see how the Government of Ontario wastes money it's not hard to see why some would want to starve governments.

BTW what does all this have to do with Canada Post?

The business model of Canada Post is completely faulty. Cuts most certainly should be made because few people mail letters anymore and the private sector does an excellent job at the business of moving parcels.

I ordered some gifts on Amazon yesterday, I didn't even pay extra and the package showed up from UPS today.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

Here's another concept that's easy to understand. Government is how society runs itself. And government runs on money. You starve government of money you starve society of the means to operate properly for all members.

Nope...government can run on varying degrees of spending and services, and this has nothing to do with funding fat public employee pensions. By your own admission, the tax revenue could be used to provide "properly" for "all members".

....What I don't understand is all the dumb people who agree with them, apparently completely oblivious to the fact that they are the ones who will suffer if these wealthier elements get their way.

Because they also see their hard won wages taxed and wasted by government on public employee pensions and deadbeats.

[Argus]

Yes they were...to the tune of $114 billion, and the USA bailed out Canadian banks who got in trouble "states side". Nothing you say can ever change this fact.

You can play games with the facts as much as you want, like the hyper left leaning organization quoted by the CBC in that story did. But the CMHC mortgage insurance program is not something designed as a bank bailout, and has been in operation for some time. That they took a lot of mortgages off the banks hands was simply an accounting move designed to free of up money for lending. Those mortgages, unlike the ones in your country, were perfectly valid and didn't cost CMHC anything. They made money off them.

As for what the US government wanted to give them, I don't care about that. Your government gives taxpayer money away to almost every big corporation in exchange for bribes.

[Argus]

When you see how the Government of Ontario wastes money it's not hard to see why some would want to starve governments.

That's like saying since your car isn't working right you'll stop feeding it gas. How does that possibly make it run better!? Maybe you should consider fixing the problems instead!

The business model of Canada Post is completely faulty. Cuts most certainly should be made because few people mail letters anymore and the private sector does an excellent job at the business of moving parcels.

I ordered some gifts on Amazon yesterday, I didn't even pay extra and the package showed up from US today.

I've been ordering a lot of stuff on-line lately, and all of it has been delivered by Canada Post. Charms from China, clothes from the US, TV sets from Best Buy, DVDs and books and a kindle from Amazon. All delivered by Canada Post.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

....As for what the US government wanted to give them, I don't care about that. Your government gives taxpayer money away to almost every big corporation in exchange for bribes.

And your government did/does the same thing. Now it wants a pipeline to Texas ! Canada bailed out the banks, as reported in the Canadian press.

[Boges]

That's like saying since your car isn't working right you'll stop feeding it gas. How does that possibly make it run better!? Maybe you should consider fixing the problems instead!

I've been ordering a lot of stuff on-line lately, and all of it has been delivered by Canada Post.

We sure shouldn't be giving them more money.

Parcel delivery is one thing but delivering bills and flyer to your door daily is becoming less needed by the day.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Boges

[Argus]

Nope...government can run on varying degrees of spending and services, and this has nothing to do with funding fat public employee pensions. By your own admission, the tax revenue could be used to provide "properly" for "all members".

If the government hadn't cut the GST and hadn't cut corporate taxes repeatedly it wouldn't be now acting like the pensions of government workers were driving it into the poorhouse.

Due to ongoing corporate tax cuts, corporate income taxes make up a falling share of all government revenues. In fact, by the end of January, corporations will have fully paid their share of taxes. The general federal corporate income tax rate stood at 28% in 2000. It was cut to 21% under the Liberals, and then cut in stages, from 21% to

15%, under the Conservatives. The most recent cut was from 16.5% to

15%, effective January 1, 2012.

Each one percentage point cut to the corporate income tax rate costs the federal government about $2 billion in annual revenues.

http://www.canadianlabour.ca/sites/default/files/what-did-corporate-tax-cuts-deliver-2012-01-12-en.pdf

Because they also see their hard won wages taxed and wasted by government on public employee pensions and deadbeats.

Like it or not, it costs money to provide the services people want. Lower ranking public servants tend to make more than their counterparts in large private sector organizations, but higher level employees make a lot less. In any event, you can't use the kind of people who work in Wal-mart and Tim Hortons to run complex national programs and services. It takes a great deal more knowledge, education and skills. That's what makes these comparisons between the public and private sectors so laughable.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

That's what makes these comparisons between the public and private sectors so laughable.

Nonsense, and obviously very self serving. The public has spoken, and they will no longer be taken to the cleaners by public employee unions. The bloated gravy train is over.

[Argus]

d

Edited December 14, 2013 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

You mean the press reported a 'study' by a very left leaning organization. Are you suddenly on the left and a big believer in socialist studies?

I only know what I read in Canada's state financed and controlled media...the Ceeb !

[On Guard for Thee]

And your government did/does the same thing. Now it wants a pipeline to Texas ! Canada bailed out the banks, as reported in the Canadian press.

What the US did was a bank bailout. Mostly to do with the inevitable failures in the mortgage market because banks financed purchases that were doomed to fail but they didn't care because they thought the housing bubble would never burst and when people failed the banks just repossessed and resold t a higher value. The Canadian government did a bail in which served to stabilize the mortgage market by buying perfectly sound debt from banks through CMHC. Very different animals.

[On Guard for Thee]

And your government did/does the same thing. Now it wants a pipeline to Texas ! Canada bailed out the banks, as reported in the Canadian press.

What the US did was a bank bailout. Mostly to do with the inevitable failures in the mortgage market because banks financed purchases that were doomed to fail but they didn't care because they thought the housing bubble would never burst and when people failed the banks just repossessed and resold t a higher value. The Canadian government did a bail in which served to stabilize the mortgage market by buying perfectly sound debt from banks through CMHC. Very different animals.