TTC Police Shooting

[Guest Derek L]

We've seen it in the US where innocent bystanders in homes received bullets because of action outside. Criminal and police shootings put the general public at risk.

And in Canada..........And due in part to Murphy’s law, if the officer(s) had a shot him from street level up into the streetcar, their stray bullets would have found a nosy little old lady or a single mom and her kids on the third floor of the building across the street……..then the headlines would be Toronto police shoot little old lady well contending with a knife wielding maniac on transit system……..

IIRC, last year, their was a Montreal police officer that killed a fellow on his way home from work well contending with a homeless person.....

[guyser]

22 cops pointing guns at a knife welding guy....inside a street car.

Toronto's Finest , slipping in public confidence with every breathe we take.

[Guest Derek L]

The guy who was shot didn't look like he was doing any of what you describe. You are creating a scenario that never happened...

It looks like the cops had the situation under control (or should have) and there was no threat at the moment. Then he was shot. There may be more evidence and better video that may show the cops' lives were in danger... but so far it looks bad.

And how do you know?

I qualified myself as speculating, coupled with how police are trained to deal with such situations, well requiring more details prior to passing judgement against the police in my very first post.

[guyser]

And in Canada..........And due in part to Murphy’s law, if the officer(s) had a shot him from street level up into the streetcar, their stray bullets would have found a nosy little old lady or a single mom and her kids on the third floor of the building across the street……..then the headlines would be Toronto police shoot little old lady well contending with a knife wielding maniac on transit system……..

Well...for that to happen we best build a three storey house or apt building since one does not exist there right now

[Guest Derek L]

Well...for that to happen we best build a three storey house or apt building since one does not exist there right now

No? And what's a block over? And a block past that.......do you realize the distance that a centerfire bullet will travel?

[guyser]

No? And what's a block over? And a block past that.......do you realize the distance that a centerfire bullet will travel?

Whats in Hamilton for all that has to do with a block over etc.

How far a bullet travels? How far is it lethal you mean?

[Guest Derek L]

Whats in Hamilton for all that has to do with a block over etc.

How far a bullet travels? How far is it lethal you mean?

A 9 mm or .40 S&W flat nose hollow point bullet will travel over a mile and still have a velocity of over 300 ft per second.......wouldn't tickle.

[guyser]

A 9 mm or .40 S&W flat nose hollow point bullet will travel over a mile and still have a velocity of over 300 ft per second.......wouldn't tickle.

ok.

Bellwoods is a long street full of trees w full leaves. At midnight too.

[Boges]

Evidence suggests, from those analysing the video and the guy that took it, that shots were fired when the "target" was down. He was definitely tazed while down.

It's safe to say someone on the police force was in the wrong.

[The_Squid]

And how do you know?

I qualified myself as speculating, coupled with how police are trained to deal with such situations, well requiring more details prior to passing judgement against the police in my very first post.

Because I see the video and he is clearly still on the bus with the cops outside. What is so hard about that to figure out?

[Guest Derek L]

ok.

Bellwoods is a long street full of trees w full leaves. At midnight too.

I'll take your word.......that said, the back drop of a target is a key factor for all responsible shooters………one of the basics taught in any firearms course……

[Guest Derek L]

Because I see the video and he is clearly still on the bus with the cops outside. What is so hard about that to figure out?

Sure he was, I saw it too.......I would estimate he was less then 30 ft away from the officers, a distance he could travel in seconds with a lethal outcome.

[Guest Derek L]

Another closer video:

I would refine my estimate that the knife wielding man was less than 20ft from the officers, a distance that could be covered in less than 5 seconds..........and from this video, the young man is standing well shots were first fired

Edited July 29, 2013 by Derek L

[The_Squid]

Sure he was, I saw it too.......I would estimate he was less then 30 ft away from the officers, a distance he could travel in seconds with a lethal outcome.

Very true... but until he attempts to do that (which the video shows that clearly he didn't) then they don't have a need to blow him away.

[Guest Derek L]

Another closer video:

I would refine my estimate that the knife wielding man was less than 20ft from the officers, a distance that could be covered in less than 5 seconds..........and from this video, the young man is standing well shots were first fired

And to add, when shots are first fired, the kid is advancing towards officers....

[The_Squid]

Wow... that 2nd video looks even worse for the cops. The cop closest to the camera doesn't even have his gun raised. And WHY 6 more shots???

[The_Squid]

And to add, when shots are first fired, the kid is advancing towards officers....

He is still clearly still on the bus...

[Guest Derek L]

Wow... that 2nd video looks even worse for the cops. The cop closest to the camera doesn't even have his gun raised. And WHY 6 more shots???

How is it worse? The kid advances at officers armed.......the officer will be cleared.

[Guest Derek L]

He is still clearly still on the bus...

Yeah seconds away, and advancing towards officers with a knife.

[Guest Derek L]

Evidence suggests, from those analysing the video and the guy that took it, that shots were fired when the "target" was down. He was definitely tazed while down.

It's safe to say someone on the police force was in the wrong.

And at ~1;30 when the tazer is used, he's still has the knife, hence why the officers are still telling him to drop the knife....

[The_Squid]

I'll trust the security expert and former Toronto cop more than the resident gun nut/apologist...

I'm not saying it wasn't justified, but it doesn't look good at all.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2013/07/29/toronto-streetcar-shooting-video-questions.html

He said it raises serious questions about how police handled the confrontation.

On the enhanced video, a six-second jolt from a Taser can be heard after the gunshots, McLean said. Yatim also appears to put his hands over his head at one point on the enhanced video, he said.

McLean says if the officers had waited another minute for the officer with the Taser to arrive instead of opening fire, Yatim might be alive today. "Should you be Tasering someone who’s been shot six or nine times and lying on the ground?” he told CBC News.

McLean says the video also suggests police did not engage the suspect.

"Your mouth is your best weapon," he said.

The key is to communicate with and contain the suspect, he said.

"He was fairly contained. He was in the streetcar. He could have let that guy sit there all night."

[Boges]

How is it worse? The kid advances at officers armed.......the officer will be cleared.

Even if that was true, after the first three shots he clearly wasn't advancing anymore.

There's absolutely no reason for the second round of shots.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Boges

[Moonlight Graham]

There may be more to this story than meets the eye. Maybe the officer saw the guy on the streetcar reaching for his hip (or seemingly so), and then fired. There needs to be an investigation and hear the whole story before we make judgements.

[Guest Derek L]

Even if that was true, after the first three shots he clearly wasn't advancing anymore.

There's absolutely no reason for the second round of shots.

He was still armed with the knife......as the reason why the police can still be heard to say "drop the knife" even after being tazed, after being shot.......Police are also taught, when they've crossed the threshold of use of deadly force, to keep using it until the attacker is no longer a threat………if he’s still holding a knife, officers or paramedics can't render first aide.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

There may be more to this story than meets the eye. Maybe the officer saw the guy on the streetcar reaching for his hip (or seemingly so), and then fired. There needs to be an investigation and hear the whole story before we make judgements.

I agree, even so, the two differing videos are a contrast.