TTC Police Shooting

[cybercoma]

So, my question, will the torch and pitchfork crowd be quelled on this mater if the Judge bins the 2nd degree charge in this case?

The vast majority of officers go their entire careers without discharging their firearms. This guy has not only discharged his firearm twice, but has been charged with second-degree murder twice?

Come on, Derek. There's obviously a problem here.

[Guest Derek L]

But you have no evidence to prove that this was an example of the SIU pleasing the rabbit masses do you?

The onus is not on me to prove the officer guilty…….or a newt.

[GostHacked]

Those calling for “Justice for Sammy”, neglect a cornerstone of our legal system.

The cop is also in neglect certain cornerstones of our legal system. Hence the charge.

Trolling or blind apologetic. Which one is it?

[Guest Derek L]

The vast majority of officers go their entire careers without discharging their firearms. This guy has not only discharged his firearm twice, but has been charged with second-degree murder twice?

Come on, Derek. There's obviously a problem here.

I don't think this officer was charged twice......

[Boges]

Those calling for Justice for Sammy, neglect a cornerstone of our legal system.

And those people are idiots. But their typical anti-cop outrage shouldn't be used to ignore the concerns of many people.

[Guest Derek L]

And those people are idiots. But their typical anti-cop outrage shouldn't be used to ignore the concerns of many people.

And what would call the "many people" with concerns?

Should we as society put people in prison because of a video we all saw on Youtube?

[eyeball]

Should we as society put people in prison because of a video we all saw on Youtube?

If the show fits, why not?

[Guest Derek L]

If the show fits, why not?

And when the show is on a different channel?

[GostHacked]

And what would call the "many people" with concerns?

Should we as society put people in prison because of a video we all saw on Youtube?

If the evidence shows that the person is deserving to go to prison, then by all means. This video will be used as evidence in the court of law. Let's call it Exhibit A.

[Boges]

And what would call the "many people" with concerns?

Should we as society put people in prison because of a video we all saw on Youtube?

No but that Youtube video caused an SIU investigation that has now lead to a serious 2nd degree murder charge.

Had the video not been made public, I doubt we'd see the charge, let alone the 3 investigations that have been created in the wake of this shooting.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Boges

[cybercoma]

I don't think this officer was charged twice......

Yeah. I misread the article. I thought it was the same officer charged in the past.

[Black Dog]

Those calling for “Justice for Sammy”, neglect a cornerstone of our legal system.

Since the G20, Toronto police have had a bit of a credibility issue and there's a widespread perception that they get away with murder (literaly, in some cases). imo, the "justice for Sammy" thing i snot a call to dispense with due process, but simply a call for that process to be followed in a transparent way. Let me put it like this: do you have any actual examples of people saying due process should not be followed?

[The_Squid]

It was clear to most people that the officer did not need to shoot the guy on the bus. This certainly validates that opinion. Whether he is convicted of 2nd degree murder is a different question. If he is found "not guilty" it does not mean that he was "innocent".

But the evidence seems pretty clear in this case. A murderer got caught on video...

[Guest American Woman]

Should we as society put people in prison because of a video we all saw on Youtube?

This is the problem I've had with this incident all along.

I have to wonder, too, if the charge was made because of all the hoopla. Sort of like how OJ Simpson got off. I think this officer, while he may very well have done the wrong thing, is being 'thrown to the wolves' with a second degree murder charge. Yatmin was tasered, after all, after the shots - and the number of shots, it seems, is consistent with police policy. I have to wonder if policy and training were taken into account with this charge. It seems to me as if charging him this way is a way to take the heat off of the police force. Time will tell, but I hope we do get some answers throughout all of this. Again, I can see that it very well could be found that he acted inappropriately - but second degree murder??

[Boges]

This is the problem I've had with this incident all along.

I have to wonder, too, if the charge was made because of all the hoopla. Sort of like how OJ Simpson got off. I think this officer, while he may very well have done the wrong thing, is being 'thrown to the wolves' with a second degree murder charge. Yatmin was tasered, after all, after the shots - and the number of shots, it seems, is consistent with police policy. I have to wonder if policy and training were taken into account with this charge. It seems to me as if charging him this way is a way to take the heat off of the police force. Time will tell, but I hope we do get some answers throughout all of this. Again, I can see that it very well could be found that he acted inappropriately - but second degree murder??

But one could also say that charges may never have come if there wasn't a Youtube video. Police officers can meet to get their story straight before talking to the SIU. The video ensures that they can't lie about what happened.

Like say, and I know I'm a tin-foil hatter for even proposing such a thing, perhaps they tazed him so they could say they tried that first and they shot him only after that didn't work. Without a video how could we prove their story wrong?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Boges

[Guest American Woman]

But one could also say that charges may never have come if there wasn't a Youtube video. Police officers can meet to get their story straight before talking to the SIU. The video ensures that they can't lie about what happened.

Like say, and I know I'm a tin-foil hatter for even proposing such a thing, perhaps they tazed him so they could say they tried that first and they shot him only after that didn't work. Without a video how could we prove their story wrong?

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with using the YouTube video as evidence, but just part of the evidence - because that's all it is. My point is that perhaps second degree murder charges should never have come about, and the charge is just to pacify the 'YouTube crowd' that seems to think the video is all they need to convict the officer. Then there are those who are actually making claims as to why he did it - without any evidence whatsoever.

So I have to wonder if this officer is being made to take the fall for problems within the department, such as problems with training, as I said. There is so much noise being made, and without all of the evidence, that I wonder if the powers-that-be are throwing this officer to the wolves to pacify the masses. If that's the case, what's to be solved? If other issues are the real problem, will they be addressed now, or is it simply just a matter of throwing this cop to the wolves, the masses are happy, and that's the end of it? I would hate to see that happen.

[GostHacked]

But one could also say that charges may never have come if there wasn't a Youtube video. Police officers can meet to get their story straight before talking to the SIU. The video ensures that they can't lie about what happened.

Like say, and I know I'm a tin-foil hatter for even proposing such a thing, perhaps they tazed him so they could say they tried that first and they shot him only after that didn't work. Without a video how could we prove their story wrong?

The video is allowing someone to be accountable for their actions. This is part of the reason you see many cops push back on being filmed by the public. I am with you on the notion that if there was no video, we may not even really be discussing this whole scenario to the lengths that we have so far. And the order of the shooting/tasering, is kind of telling that something is messed up.

[Boges]

If all they went on was the Youtube video then what has the SIU been doing for the past month?

I'm guessing they actually got to see the TTC surveillance footage that would have shown how much of a threat Yatim actually posed, especially after the first 3 shots were fired.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Boges

[g_bambino]

It was clear to most people that the officer did not need to shoot the guy on the bus.

Most people shouldn't jump to conclusiions.

[Guest American Woman]

Most people shouldn't jump to conclusiions.

Exactly. Yet so many are. In a country that prides itself on "due process."

[Boges]

Exactly. Yet so many are. In a country that prides itself on "due process."

Some anti-police loon are. But they don't really need a good reason to protest.

I've said, from all the evidence I've seen, the shooting seemed like overkill.

Now I don't have all the evidence. But it's pretty unique that a single shooting spawns 3 separate investigations. That can't all be due to pressure from a fringe group of anti-police activists.

And independent investigation has come to the conclusion that there's enough evidence to charge the officer in question with second degree murder.

Do you have any evidence to suggest there is not good reason for them to lay those charges?

[Black Dog]

Exactly. Yet so many are (jumping to conclusions). In a country that prides itself on "due process."

My point is that perhaps second degree murder charges should never have come about, and the charge is just to pacify the 'YouTube crowd' that seems to think the video is all they need to convict the officer. Then there are those who are actually making claims as to why he did it - without any evidence whatsoever.

So I have to wonder if this officer is being made to take the fall for problems within the department, such as problems with training, as I said. There is so much noise being made, and without all of the evidence, that I wonder if the powers-that-be are throwing this officer to the wolves to pacify the masses. If that's the case, what's to be solved? If other issues are the real problem, will they be addressed now, or is it simply just a matter of throwing this cop to the wolves, the masses are happy, and that's the end of it? I would hate to see that happen.

Beauty.

[Guest American Woman]

Beauty.

Do you know what "perhaps" means? And "wonder?" Because from your response, it doesn't appear as if you do.

Edited August 19, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

Beauty.

Listen what I say! This time we are AW, this time we are.

[Boges]

Do you know what "perhaps" means? And "wonder?" Because from your response, it doesn't appear as if you do.

And "perhaps" they tazed him in an attempt to cover up the need to shoot Yatim 9 times.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Boges