Bill Clinton: "Nicole Brown could have been my daughter."

[August1991]

“Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago,” said Obama, not just acknowledging but slaying the elephant in the room.

Toronto Star

This kind of statement harms the US. When Simpson was found innocent, Clinton merely upheld the judicial system.

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IMV, Americans still don't understand how a respectful society of various communities operates. America has not brought in blacks to its "melting pot".

Edited July 20, 2013 by August1991

[Guest American Woman]

According to you, Clinton merely upheld the judicial system, so why are you attributing Obama's reaction to "America/Americans?" Why not Clinton's?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[cybercoma]

IMV, Americans still don't understand how a respectful society of various communities operates. America has not brought in blacks to its "melting pot".

Oh great. This is just BC/AW bait.

[scribblet]

I don't think the President should participate in race baiting and should've upheld the judicial system.

[-TSS-]

Obama says "It could have been me 35 years ago". Interesting! The President can picture himself as a youngster banging a white guy's head against the pavement.

[Guest American Woman]

Obama says "It could have been me 35 years ago". Interesting! The President can picture himself as a youngster banging a white guy's head against the pavement.

I don't think that's what he was saying. I think he was saying it could have been him walking through such a neighborhood and getting such a reaction.

[cybercoma]

I don't think the President should participate in race baiting and should've upheld the judicial system.

Race baiting? Really? The president explained what it's like being a black man in America, so that white and other non-black Americans could hopefully glean some understanding of what their lived experience is like and you call it race baiting? It's pretty shameful that you would be so dismissive of his and many others' experiences that way. Edited July 20, 2013 by cybercoma

[Guest American Woman]

Race baiting? Really? The president explained what it's like being a black man in America, so that white and other non-black Americans could hopefully glean some understanding of what their lived experience is like and you call it race baiting? It's pretty shameful that you would be so dismissive of his and many others' experiences that way.

Obama's experience as a Black in America is going to Harvard and being elected POTUS. Not too shabby.

The OP raises a good point - Clinton could have just as easily said that Nicole Brown could have been his daughter. If OJ were not Black, he would not have been acquitted.

[cybercoma]

Obama's experience as a Black in America is going to Harvard and being elected POTUS. Not too shabby.

Which makes what he's saying even worse. Unless you're claiming he's lying about his experiences.

[Guest American Woman]

Which makes what he's saying even worse. Unless you're claiming he's lying about his experiences.

How does it make it even worse? A Black gets into Harvard and elected POTUS, and that's a terrible thing? And what do his experiences, whatever they may have been, 35 years ago have to do with the here and now? And what about Nicole Brown's killer being acquitted? I see you ignored the "Bill Clinton could have said...." part of my response/this thread - and there's a point being made there.

[cybercoma]

How does it make it even worse? A Black gets into Harvard and elected POTUS, and that's a terrible thing?

That's not what I'm saying at all. You're the one that invoked the fact that he went to Harvard as part of this discussion. So if that's irrelevant to what he's saying, then let's move on. What I was saying in my last post is that despite the fact that he went on to go to Harvard and become the POTUS, he was still treated differently (read: like crap) because he's black and so are many other people. Despite the fact that he has had an exceptional life by any standards, people still treated him like a criminal and with suspicion because of his race. So that's what makes it worse. It's worse that he was treated that way, in spite of the fact that he would go on to become president one day.

[Guest American Woman]

That's not what I'm saying at all. You're the one that invoked the fact that he went to Harvard as part of this discussion. So if that's irrelevant to what he's saying, then let's move on. What I was saying in my last post is that despite the fact that he went on to go to Harvard and become the POTUS, he was still treated differently (read: like crap) because he's black and so are many other people. Despite the fact that he has had an exceptional life by any standards, people still treated him like a criminal and with suspicion because of his race. So that's what makes it worse. It's worse that he was treated that way, in spite of the fact that he would go on to become president one day.

Ummmm, no.... it doesn't make it worse. It's a good thing that one can have that background - and still grow up to be accepted at Harvard and be elected POTUS. From all accounts, his life wasn't "exceptional" when he was Martin's age. Have you read his book? I have.

Barack Obama candidly discussed his youthful drinking and drug use with high school students Tuesday, prompting at least one teen to conclude that such experimentation won't automatically ruin a young person's future.

"I made some bad decisions that I've actually written about," he said. "There were times when I, you know, got into drinking, experimented with drugs. There was a whole stretch of time where I didn't really apply myself a lot."

Obama, 46, wrote about his drinking and marijuana and cocaine use in his autobiography, "Dreams from My Father," and has talked about it in interviews.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/barack-obama-tells-n-h-kids-alcohol-drug-teen-years-article-1.259274#ixzz2ZbsnTqbL

So one can have a less than stellar youth and still achieve great things in this country. But again, his experiences 35 years ago aren't exactly relevant today. When discussing race, discrimination, criminal sentencing - you think it's relevant to go back and give examples from 35 years ago in regards to how things are today? I would think not.

[-TSS-]

It seems to me that Obama has allowed his personal feelings get the better of him, which is understandable for an average citizen but inexcusable for the President of the United States.

[cybercoma]

you think it's relevant to go back and give examples from 35 years ago in regards to how things are today? I would think not.

Right. Because racism is over in America. I forgot. At least the fundamentalist Right would like us to stop talking about. Edited July 20, 2013 by cybercoma

[Guest American Woman]

Right. Because racism is over in America. I forgot. At least the fundamentalist Right would like us to stop talking about.

Good grief. So racism either has to be what it was 35 years ago - or over? There's no in between?

Racism isn't over anywhere, but we are certainly evolving. As far as I'm concerned, if Obama wants to talk about how rough he had it 35 years ago, he should be willing to address the advantages that helped get him where he ended up - and that includes Harvard. There's nothing to indicate that he had the grades et al to get into Harvard without Affirmative Action, and that's including his own narrative of his early years. There's a reason he won't put the transcript of his grades out there, and I have no problem with that, but this one sided "racism" talk is ridiculous and counterproductive.

There's nothing - absolutely nothing - to indicate that "racism" had anything to do with this case, but as I pointed out, it's the general consensus that OJ got off because of his race. You once again ignore a major point of this thread - Clinton didn't come out with statements like "Nicole could have been my daughter." Where's the outrage over that?

Yes, there are race issues in the U.S., but they are not what they were 35 years ago - and they are not the basis for every crime that isn't Black on Black.

And fyi, your "fundamentalist Right" comment is about as partisan as it gets at best. Are you implying that the "fundamentalist Right" is racist? - wants to keep Blacks in their place? Wants people let off for killing Blacks? I have no idea what point is supposedly being made with a comment like that.

[August1991]

I don't think the President should participate in race baiting and should've upheld the judicial system.

That's my thinking too. There is no major policy issue in this case. It's simply a tragic case now sadly divided along racial lines. When Obama chose to wade into this case with his own comments (I read Obama's impromptu statement), he said nothing about Zimmerman or his family.

[August1991]

Oh geez... Cybercoma, it's an Internet forum.

Oh great. This is just BC/AW bait.

Race baiting? Really? The president explained what it's like being a black man in America, so that white and other non-black Americans could hopefully glean some understanding of what their lived experience is like and you call it race baiting? It's pretty shameful that you would be so dismissive of his and many others' experiences that way.

Zimmerman is Hispanic. What's it like being Hispanic in America today? Heck, what's it like to be an Asian walking down the street in America?

-----

During a similar emotional debate in Canada (that divided along linguistic lines), I recall Trudeau telling "Westerners to turn the box around" if they didn't like seeing French. That was a far better response to an emotionally charged, policy issue than Obama's statement on this case.

It's Obama's inability to bridge this fundamental American divide that I find sad in his administration.

[cybercoma]

Zimmerman is Hispanic. What's it like being Hispanic in America today? Heck, what's it like to be an Asian walking down the street in America?

You're making a very obvious false equivalency.

[-TSS-]

A very similar case 4 years ago:

http://radioviceonline.com/media-roderick-scott-not-guilty-manslaugter-self-defense-shooting-chris-cervini/

Where was the media? Where was Obama? Where was Jackson?

Edited July 22, 2013 by -TSS-

[GostHacked]

You're making a very obvious false equivalency.

I think it's fair. Zimmerman is hispanic. This is quite rare where racism is called and whitey is not even involved.

The political spectrum is sure using this to their advantage. Obama, Sharpton, Jackson are all heavily politicizing and heavily polarizing these two groups. Creating a nice divide and rift through these communities. This is a systematic divide and conquere tactic in my view. Pit the blacks against hispanics to detract them from the crimes of their leaders who can remain leaders as long as you buy into the racism and the division and be completely distracted.

[August1991]

You're making a very obvious false equivalency.

How so?

Do you mean that unlike Africans, Asians were never enslaved in America? Well, some Asian-Japanese lost everything. And there were similar Jim Crow laws for Chinese-Americans. Yet today, in America, no one crosses a street to avoid an Asian. And no asks where Chinatown is because they want to avoid going there. But if you're driving on Martin Luther King Blvd, you're in the wrong end of town.

Obama attempted to explain the experience of American blacks, descendants of slaves, to the general American population. I question whether that's a useful exercise. I figure that Obama should work to involve black Americans into the melting pot.

As Trudeau famously said: "Some people want to put Quebec in its place. Well, I think Quebec's place is within Canada."

Replace that phrase with "blacks", "America" and "Obama".

=====

Maybe Obama's presidency, like Laurier's election over 100 years before, is simple statement enough. (I recall reading that Oprah Winfrey told Obama after his first election in 2008: "Don't screw this up.") I suspect that in 1896, when Laurier took office in Ottawa, he heard similar advice from other federalist Quebecers. As it turns out, Laurier was the single francophone in his first cabinet.

Finally, as comparisons go, while Laurier may have been Canada's first francophone PM, he was not its first Catholic PM. And Laurier, a French Catholic, was elected within 150 years or so of a colonized New France.

Edited July 23, 2013 by August1991

[August1991]

I think that what I am saying is that Obama should be speaking to Black Americans - he has to move them to be part of the American Dream. After all, he (and in particular his wife) have enjoyed its benefits.

[Guest American Woman]

I think that what I am saying is that Obama should be speaking to Black Americans - he has to move them to be part of the American Dream. After all, he (and in particular his wife) have enjoyed its benefits.

Why "in particular his wife?"

[August1991]

Why "in particular his wife?"

There you go. Been there, done that.

Obama's mother is white American, and his father is a Kenyan. Barack Obama is like Robert Rumilly. But his wife is like Margaret Sinclair. Then again. As you Americans say, "Gimme break".

Edited July 23, 2013 by August1991

[Guest American Woman]

There you go. Been there, done that.

Obama's mother is white American, and his father is a Kenyan. Barack Obama is like Robert Rumilly. But his wife is like Henri Bourassa. Then again, As you Americans say, "Gimme break".

Huh? We Americans say that? Who knew. I'm still not sure what you're getting at. Many Blacks are "part of the American Dream."