kimmy Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Another false assumption....do you think all "Black Panthers" vote/support Democrats ? I don't profess to know. But if you're placing a bet, that's where the smart money would be. It's kind of like how Governors Kasich and Haley and Pence can sign laws that will target college voters, knowing that while it'll cost Republicans some college votes, it will cost the Democrats a lot more college votes. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 I don't profess to know. But if you're placing a bet, that's where the smart money would be. Bad bet....the Black Panther movement is/was about revolutionary socialism, not cuddling up with Brand X or Y majority parties in the U.S. College voting and residency rules are ripe for voting fraud. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
guyser Posted July 2, 2013 Report Posted July 2, 2013 . The reason the DoJ doesn't have statistics is precious little is kept track of for any stats to exist one way or the other. . DoJ link was already pasted here. They say very very little fraud occurs. This isnt about fraud. All said, the take that ID isnt unreasonable is valid, but the push for ID is. Quote
jbg Posted July 2, 2013 Report Posted July 2, 2013 I think kimmy has got to the heart of it. Even though ID is a reasonable requirement, the integrity of the system is not the real reason its biggest champions are pushing it. Let's get to the heart of the issue. It's not fraud that's the problem; it's the push by populist-type politicians of low-information voters to the polls. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bryan Posted July 2, 2013 Report Posted July 2, 2013 DoJ link was already pasted here. They say very very little fraud occurs. This isnt about fraud. I read it. No one is keeping stats that would document how much or how little there is. DoJ is not reporting stats that show anything, they are reporting a lack of stats. Huge difference. It is about fraud, and giant whole that exists to perpetrate it without anyone even having any mechanism to know that it's even happening. Asking for ID is the bare minimum you'd have to do to even be able to track how much (or how little) fraud there is. Quote
guyser Posted July 2, 2013 Report Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) I read it. No one is keeping stats that would document how much or how little there is. DoJ is not reporting stats that show anything, they are reporting a lack of stats. Huge difference. It is about fraud, and giant whole that exists to perpetrate it without anyone even having any mechanism to know that it's even happening. Asking for ID is the bare minimum you'd have to do to even be able to track how much (or how little) fraud there is. Oh you read it? Did you miss this part? Despite many instances of electoral fraud internationally, in the U.S. a major study by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2007[2] showed of the 300 million votes cast in that period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud – and of those few cases, most involved persons who were simply unaware of their ineligibility 86 out of 300 million. Huuuuuuge problem huh? It isnt about fraud... Edited July 2, 2013 by Guyser2 Quote
jbg Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 Let's get to the heart of the issue. It's not fraud that's the problem; it's the push by populist-type politicians of low-information voters to the polls. 86 out of 300 million. Huuuuuuge problem huh? It isnt about fraud... First of all that's only convictions. For obvious reasons prosecutors don't find those kind of prosecutions politically advantageous. More to the point, as I said, the serious issue in my mind is the push by demagogues (I was kind when I called them "populists") to get voters to the polls, en masse, who frankly couldn't care about the outcome, and don't understand the issues. While I believe in universal suffrage I consider this to be a serious problem. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bryan Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 Oh you read it? Did you miss this part? Despite many instances of electoral fraud internationally, in the U.S. a major study by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2007[2] showed of the 300 million votes cast in that period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud – and of those few cases, most involved persons who were simply unaware of their ineligibility 86 out of 300 million. Huuuuuuge problem huh? It isnt about fraud... Exactly my point. The oversight is so lacking that no one even gets caught. Quote
Wilber Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 Exactly my point. The oversight is so lacking that no one even gets caught. Of course, it has to be a problem because they can't find it. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
guyser Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 Exactly my point. The oversight is so lacking that no one even gets caught. Wow, those goalposts are on wheels huh? Quote
guyser Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 Of course, it has to be a problem because they can't find it. Ridiculous assertion,accurate and funny to boot ! Quote
Bryan Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 Wow, those goalposts are on wheels huh? My position has not moved at all. Quote
guyser Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 My position has not moved at all. First it was no DoJ info, then when a study they did surfaces you change to lack of oversight. DoJ says, very little fraud. Wanna argue, take it up with them. Quote
guyser Posted July 3, 2013 Report Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) First of all that's only convictions. For obvious reasons prosecutors don't find those kind of prosecutions politically advantageous. Fair enough and easily understood. But , one has to wonder where are the prosecutors for the obvious 10Million or so fraudsters that' sky is falling' chicken shits worry about Edited July 3, 2013 by Guyser2 Quote
kimmy Posted July 4, 2013 Report Posted July 4, 2013 I'm still asking the same question as earlier in this thread: why is it that the states who are so concerned about voter ID laws apparently have no concern at all over things like day-long line-ups at polls in "minority" areas, or indiscriminate voter-roll purges that inexplicably wipe minorities off the rolls at higher rates than the rest of the population, or attempts to make it difficult for college students to vote? If Defending Democracy!!! is the objective, it seems like all of those things should be higher priority than statistically insignificant numbers of people casting multiple ballots or voting at the wrong polling station. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Wilber Posted July 4, 2013 Report Posted July 4, 2013 I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I don't see a requirement for identification to be unreasonable. On the other, I don't think those claiming rampant abuse have made their case. A society that believes in democracy would go out of it's way to make sure that those who are entitled to vote, are allowed to vote. The jury is out. I think that individual states determining how citizens are entitled to elect their federal representatives is bizarre and that's being polite. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Bryan Posted July 4, 2013 Report Posted July 4, 2013 First it was no DoJ info, then when a study they did surfaces you change to lack of oversight. DoJ says, very little fraud. Wanna argue, take it up with them. I did not change anything. It's exactly the same position. It's not my problem you lack basic reading comprehension. Quote
guyser Posted July 4, 2013 Report Posted July 4, 2013 I did not change anything. It's exactly the same position. It's not my problem you lack basic reading comprehension. Ok....DoJ did a study with no data , no info, just pulled stuff out of their arse. Makes sense now huh? Quote
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