New Study Says Wind Turbines are Bad For The Health

[waldo]

Many people in Ontario are fed up with the costly boondoggles and direct costs to their "hydro" bills and taxes.

many! How much is a many? Like I said, the capital costs associated with the gas-plant moves are mice-nuts in relation to the overall capital costs principally associated with hydro expansion, transmission line costs, plant conversions, etc.. It's quite amusing to read the malcontents whining about the gas plant moves (moved given community resistance to the plants)... this from the same malcontents who proudly proclaim their townships are 'not willing to host' wind farms. Kind of a most selective nimbyism, wouldn't you say?

It doesn't matter who Wakefield is, so save the usual character attacks for another thread.

what character attacks??? There isn't any character to attack... like I said, the guy is a no-name blogger... you can't find out anything about the guy on his blog... I certainly can't find anything out about the guy anywhere else. I guess just another of your 'no name' go-to guys!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

what character attacks??? There isn't any character to attack... like I said, the guy is a no-name blogger... you can't find out anything about the guy on his blog... I certainly can't find anything out about the guy anywhere else. I guess just another of your 'no name' go-to guys!!!

You are purposely ignoring the larger issue of "groundswell" resistance to wind farm monstrosities of dubious short and long term value. Does everybody have to have (American) NASA or Goddard or EIA credentials to get your attention on what is largely a political front in Ontario? Didn't you guys factor such resistance into the grand "renewables" scheme to push out evil and dirty fossil fuels ?

Wind power blows....sometimes.

[scribblet]

Yawn....McGuinty is going to resign tomorrow because the green energy scandals have taken quite a toll. Many people in Ontario are fed up with the costly boondoggles and direct costs to their "hydro" bills and taxes. It doesn't matter who Wakefield is, so save the usual character attacks for another thread.

Good night.....sleep tight....hope the wind blows...tonight.

Good posts, excellent points. People are fed up, but with McGuinty resigning we might, that's a big might, see some changes. Premier Wynne said it's important that "local populations are involved from the beginning if there is going to be a gas plant or a wind plant in their hometown." Too bad she didn't say that while in cabinet. More people are beginning to get it.

from this link a letter

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/editorial/letters/2013-05-23/high-cost-wind-power

The weekend of May 11-12 was very windy in most of Ontario, from 7 p.m. on Friday, May 10 through to midnight of May 12. The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) showed wind produced 58,165 megawatts of power, beating the old production record several times.

This power cost taxpayers $135 per megawatt, totalling $7,852,276.

At the same time, because wind power has priority over cheaper forms of electricity production, Ontario had to export 127,361 megawatt hours at $20.40 per megawatt.

But by far the worst fact about that weekend is that OPG spilled (or wasted) clean renewable hydro power because of wind priority on the grid. Here in the Northwest, where 90 per cent or more of our power comes from water, you can be sure we were spilling water here too.

We could have generated the same amount of power from water for $1,186,500.

The auditor general has stated that wind power is produced out of sync with demand and that the government did not do a business case study for its renewable energy program. If they had, would it make any difference?

Most people understand dollars and cents. People may now realize that this whole energy fiasco will one day come home to roost. . . in our wallets.

Too little too late for many

http://wellingtontimes.ca/?p=8969

Province to give municipalities more say over industrial wind turbines—but only after thousands more are erected on Ontario’s skyline

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne is scrapping the Ontario government’s third renewable energy purchasing scheme in a decade—specifically those for large projects such as wind turbines proposed in South Marysburgh and multi-hectare solar projects like the pair stretching across about 200 acres on Burr Road near Highway 62.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....At the same time, because wind power has priority over cheaper forms of electricity production, Ontario had to export 127,361 megawatt hours at $20.40 per megawatt.

But by far the worst fact about that weekend is that OPG spilled (or wasted) clean renewable hydro power because of wind priority on the grid. Here in the Northwest, where 90 per cent or more of our power comes from water, you can be sure we were spilling water here too.

Simply mind-boggling that the longstanding hydroelectric advantage that Ontario (and other provinces) enjoy could be wasted in such a way, just to subsidize more costly wind farm development. "Build it and they will come" seems to have been the mindset.

Spending over $500 million for gas plants that won't be built is just more insult on top of that. So now it looks like some previously complacent Canadians are mad as hell, and won't take it anymore. Now they know why it is called "green" energy...as in "greenbacks".

[waldo]

Premier Wynne said it's important that "local populations are involved from the beginning if there is going to be a gas plant or a wind plant in their hometown."

when the moratorium comes off offshore development, the township "we're not willing" bleets will mean little... Wynne shouldn't patronize you anti-wind malcontents!

but hey now, good on ya for including a mention of gas plants. As I said a few posts back, you'll need to pull-back on your selective nimbyism over the couple of gas plant moves... if the government responded to those communities that weren't accepting to the gas plants (i.e. moved them), it hardly seems you have a basis for whining about the cost of those moves... not when, as you state, your township formally adopted opposition to wind.

[waldo]

The weekend of May 11-12 was very windy in most of Ontario, from 7 p.m. on Friday, May 10 through to midnight of May 12. The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) showed wind produced 58,165 megawatts of power, beating the old production record several times.

At the same time, because wind power has priority over cheaper forms of electricity production, Ontario had to export 127,361 megawatt hours at $20.40 per megawatt.

But by far the worst fact about that weekend is that OPG spilled (or wasted) clean renewable hydro power because of wind priority on the grid. Here in the Northwest, where 90 per cent or more of our power comes from water, you can be sure we were spilling water here too.

aside from you (and your enabler) continuing to offer up nothing but anti-wind blogger gems... or an 'anonymous letter' in this case... I suggest, "don't eat that Elmer, that there's horse-shyte!"

but yes, it was a record for wind production... but there's no way to distinguish those generated MWh from any other generation source. More pointedly, if you check the IESO adequacy reports, there is daily/hourly (for months and months on end) surplus being created... and it's principally being attributed to the two nuclear plants that were (relatively) recently brought out of mothballs. The handling of this ongoing surplus, when baseload generation exceeds Ontario demand, reflects upon the IESO policy of relying on exports to manage the surplus. In the most rarest of exception events, the IESO is required to intervene when the baseload extends beyond the ability of IESO to manage the surplus simply by relying on exports. In these most rare intervention events, the stated policy of IESO is to curtail nuclear generation and imports - not hydro! In 2011 there were 3 interventions required where baseload exceeded demand... in 2012 1 intervention was required and in 2013 (year to date) 3 interventions have been required.

but... most pointedly, most significantly: beginning this fall, IESO upgrades will allow wind generators to be a part of these rare events where intervention is required. In this regard, the upgrades will allow the IESO to dispatch wind generators from the grid (along with cutting imports and curtailing nuclear generation).

[Pliny]

Now they know why it is called "green" energy...as in "greenbacks".

Ahhh...you learn something new everyday on the forum.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Pliny

[bush_cheney2004]

Uh-oh.....the "impossible" has happened:

Transport Canada has ordered the removal of eight wind turbines near the Chatham-Kent Municipal Airport in southwestern Ontario because they exceed height restrictions for the area and could pose a risk to pilots.

Transport Canada has stated it is willing to work with the company that owns the turbines to set a practical deadline for removal, but the agency insists the turbines must eventually come down.

..."The sentiment at the meeting was clear. The community is an unwilling host," Nicholls said.

"What’s happening in Chatham is unprecedented. Nowhere in the province of Ontario has a wind turbine company been told they must take down their turbines," he said in an email to CBC Windsor.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2013/06/18/wdr-wind-turbines-chatham-kent-transport-canada.html

[waldo]

Uh-oh.....the "impossible" has happened:

oh man! That's a zinger - well done. So... ok'd by Transport Canada... ordered removed by Transport Canada - seems like a no-brainer here. Don't fret... it's only 8 out 300 in the immediate area!

[Topaz]

As the wind company has said those turbines have been up for 9 months and no one said anything, not the group against wind turbines, not Transport Canada, who probably didn't its job by the looks of things. local government or the local MP. So now they have a mess and and the locals are worried they will have to pay. I'm told 500,000 up to put up one , so how much to take down 8?? Then there's the contracts the company has with the landowners. The courts will be busy as to who should pay to take them down.

[scribblet]

Uh-oh.....the "impossible" has happened:

Transport Canada has ordered the removal of eight wind turbines near the Chatham-Kent Municipal Airport in southwestern Ontario because they exceed height restrictions for the area and could pose a risk to pilots.

.................................................................

Good news, thanks for posting this. Maybe there is hope yet as more communities are fighting back.

http://manverswindconcerns.wordpress.com/

Again, can't trim the pic. out of the post...

[bush_cheney2004]

.... The courts will be busy as to who should pay to take them down.

How does this happen without completely incompetent planning, regulation, public hearings, and review ? Wind turbines so close to a municipal airport? No wonder wind turbine development is out of control in Ontariariario.

[waldo]

No wonder wind turbine development is out of control in Ontariariario.

hyperbole much! By the by, are there no turbine siting problems in your (claimed) country? Nowhere? None? Try a googly, hey? Or... how about all that FAA concern/investigation over presumably improperly cited wind turbines messing with the navaid intended to support smaller planes in at least a dozen different airports (by the account I read)? Perhaps try another googly on that one too, hey? My gawd!!! It's outa control down there!

[bush_cheney2004]

Nice try.....but for the first time the renewables gangsters in Ontario are being forced to remove wind turbines:

More questions than answers remain following Transport Canada’s decision late last week ordering the removal of eight wind turbines from the area surrounding the Chatham-Kent municipal airport.

“It is unprecedented,” says Chatham-Kent-Essex MPP Rick Nicholl. “Nowhere in the province of Ontario has a wind turbine company been told to take down their turbines.”

Nicholls believes concerns over the airport turbines were long standing and he is pleased the issue has been addressed.

“We’re seeing it as a victory, a small victory, but a victory none the less,” says Nicholls.

[waldo]

Nice try.....

get a grip - it's a safety issue given proximity to the airport. Surely you advocate for pilot safety... yes?

but really... "renewables gangsters"??? You really don't need to be so brazen with your trolling - I'm typically stupid enough to engage you without you reaching to such extremes! Does your super-duper font size really mean anything?

by the by - how are you making out with your googlies... just how, as you say, "out of control" are the turbine siting problems in your (claimed) country?

[Topaz]

There a very good chance , we may have another mayor in trouble over this one. Why are so many mayors getting into trouble like the provincial and federal politicians?

[bush_cheney2004]

get a grip - it's a safety issue given proximity to the airport. Surely you advocate for pilot safety... yes?

but really... "renewables gangsters"??? You really don't need to be so brazen with your trolling - I'm typically stupid enough to engage you without you reaching to such extremes! Does your super-duper font size really mean anything?

Then how did they ever get sited there in the first place? How could you let an American firm do this? Oh wait...you love American stuff....right....like constant references to googling.....NASA....Goddard....etc.

The posting hysterics are just for fun.....a mocking tease about saving our poor earth from Big Wind.

[waldo]

Then how did they ever get sited there in the first place?

do not know, do not care! I will leave the minutia for you. How are you doing in identifying all the siting problems in the U.S.? Need some help?

How could you let an American firm do this? Oh wait...you love American stuff....right....like constant references to googling.....NASA....Goddard....etc.

how could I? Huh! Is it an American firm? Did not know that... do not care either. I guess it must mean something to you, hey? Just how much mileage are you going for over a Transport Canada safety related order to remove 8 wind turbines given proximity to an airport? About those siting problems in the U.S., particularly those related to airports? Like I said, need any help identifying those?

The posting hysterics are just for fun.....a mocking tease about saving our poor earth from Big Wind.

I have no problem with you, yourself, labeling the trolling phrase you used, "renewables gangsters", as, as you say, your "posting hysterics".

[Topaz]

The Transportation Board of Canada has come out a slammed Transport Canada for not doing a better job of protecting Canadians . There has been 3 different ministers in the last 7 and it doesn't look like any of them are doing their job. The blame will probably fall on the 3 levels of government and the wind company itself and in the end, it will be the taxpayer picking up the tab at all three levels for this community.

[bush_cheney2004]

do not know, do not care! I will leave the minutia for you. How are you doing in identifying all the siting problems in the U.S.? Need some help?

As for "siting problems" in the U.S., here is one that was recently resolved by the planning and review process: NO WINDS TURBINES:

The eagles in Goodhue County won a victory Thursday.

The Minnesota Public Utilities Commission pulled the plug on a controversial wind energy project that was stalled for years by a fierce and well-organized local opposition that successfully used its potential impact on eagles to help derail it.

Concerns about the eagles and other wildlife emerged late in the development process, well after the PUC had given the company legal authority and a permit to build. But it’s an example of how concerns about wildlife and other environmental issues have become a concern nationally. Once largely ignored, the impact on birds and bats, which die by the thousands when they run into turbine blades, has now become a focus for both the industry and conservation groups nationally.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/212398821.html

Don't you care about the birds, the bats, or maybe even the people living in close proximity to Big Wind ? Don't you care....or are you just a Big Apologist for Big Wind and renewables at any cost ?

Edited June 21, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Don't you care about the birds, the bats, or maybe even the people living in close proximity to Big Wind? Don't you care....or are you just a Big Apologist for Big Wind and renewables at any cost?

your trolling will not prevail... "from earlier in this same thread"...

[Topaz]

As for "siting problems" in the U.S., here is one that was recently resolved by the planning and review process: NO WINDS TURBINES:

The eagles in Goodhue County won a victory Thursday.

The Minnesota Public Utilities Commission pulled the plug on a controversial wind energy project that was stalled for years by a fierce and well-organized local opposition that successfully used its potential impact on eagles to help derail it.

Concerns about the eagles and other wildlife emerged late in the development process, well after the PUC had given the company legal authority and a permit to build. But it’s an example of how concerns about wildlife and other environmental issues have become a concern nationally. Once largely ignored, the impact on birds and bats, which die by the thousands when they run into turbine blades, has now become a focus for both the industry and conservation groups nationally.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/212398821.html

Don't you care about the birds, the bats, or maybe even the people living in close proximity to Big Wind ? Don't you care....or are you just a Big Apologist for Big Wind and renewables at any cost ?

IF we could just point the turbines south, and speed them up, we could send all that air pollution coming across !

[Sandy MacNab]

your trolling will not prevail... "from earlier in this same thread"...

The question made you squirm, didn't it? Wind turbines are killers, an abomination.

[scribblet]

It doesn’t matter how many birds, bats or whatever are killed because the turbines are ‘green’ doncha know. Wind farms also threaten species by displacing habitats not to mention harming people. But none of that matters when it comes to Big Wind. Oh the irony.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/wind-power-8216terrorising8217-rural-communities-rally-hear/story-fncynjr2-1226665907053

More unwilling hosts ..
http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2013/06/20/live-wind-turbines-at-regional-council

50 Shades of Green
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1275521/wind_farms_threaten_endangered_whooping_crane/
Wind Farms Threaten Endangered Whooping Crane Yet US Fish & Wildlife Service continue to approve more wind farms in that migration corridor

http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/releases/windfarms-bird-mortality-cover-up-in-the-uk.html

Meanwhile in the U.K., a move forward for the people.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336594/Residents-given-power-kill-new-wind-turbines-Tories-claim-end-controversial-onshore-developments.html
No longer will councils and communities be bullied into accepting developments because national energy policy trumps local opinion. Meeting our energy goals is no excuse for building wind turbines in the wrong places.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10146135/Birdwatchers-see-rare-swift-killed-by-wind-turbine.html
Dozens of birdwatchers who travelled to a Scottish island to see an extremely rare swift have been left distraught after it was killed by a wind turbine.

Shades of Ontario
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/10122850/True-cost-of-Britains-wind-farm-industry-revealed.html
A new analysis of government and industry figures shows that wind turbine owners received £1.2billion in the form of a consumer subsidy, paid by a supplement on electricity bills last year. They employed 12,000 people, to produce an effective £100,000 subsidy on each job.

and in Spain
http://www.seo.org/2012/04/24/el-grupo-local-seo-burgos-localiza-12-avutardas-muertas-bajo-un-tendido-electrico-en-la-zona-de-castrojeriz/
PAIN: 40 to 60 great bustards killed by the power lines of the Villasilos windfarm.

Edited July 2, 2013 by scribblet

[waldo]

The question made you squirm, didn't it? Wind turbines are killers, an abomination.

Hardly! I simply pointed you back to the original reply I provided earlier in this thread... in fact, a reply to you! I note you couldn't muster anything in response then - or now!