Harper vs Québec

[August1991]

In the next federal election, all of the federal party leaders will be from Quebec except Harper. The federal NDP and federal Liberals have leaders in Quebec. (The BQ has Paillé, from Québec.)

In their recent anti-Liberal attack ad, the federal Conservatives made the point that Justin Trudeau was a Quebecer, not Canadian.

I understand that, to win elections, federal Liberals once ridiculed Albertans and people from BC.

But to ridicule Quebec voters in a federal forum, one plays with fire. There are various divides in Canada, region is the most obvious. But religion is another, and language the more obvious.

----

As I always say, Canada's federal politics is about region, not ideology.

Edited April 22, 2013 by August1991

[Bryan]

In their recent anti-Liberal attack ad, the federal Conservatives made the point that Justin Trudeau was a Quebecer, not Canadian.

That's ridiculous, they did no such thing.

[segnosaur]

In their recent anti-Liberal attack ad, the federal Conservatives made the point that Justin Trudeau was a Quebecer, not Canadian.

Minor point... I don't think the Conservatives were attacking Trudeau because "he was a Quebecer". I think they are attacking him over statements he made where he made statements suggesting Quebecers are somehow "better" than the rest of Canada.

[cybercoma]

Perception is reality in politics.

[Keepitsimple]

Funny thing about Harper and Quebec. Quebec has always complained of the paternalistic "Father knows best" attitude of the Federal government - especially Liberal governments - yet Harper respects the "juristiction" of the provinces more than any PM in history. So much so that in his Reform/Alliance days, he wrote the famous "firewall letter" which expresses much of the same frustration that Quebec has successfully tried to overcome. Harper's downfall in Quebec is that while he doles out respect - he refuses to pander to Quebec by throwing more targetted money at them - without applying it fairly to all provinces.

[PIK]

Could vote splitting between the libs and the NDP give harper some extra seats in quebec?

[Fletch 27]

Could vote splitting between the libs and the NDP give harper some extra seats in quebec?

And in BC.. IMO Harper will be picking up an additional 5-7 seats in 2015..

[BubberMiley]

And in BC.. IMO Harper will be picking up an additional 5-7 seats in 2015..

Nope... IMO he'll be losing seats... And I use three periods to end my sentences, so I win...

[segnosaur]

Could vote splitting between the libs and the NDP give harper some extra seats in quebec?

I think you'll more likely see an increase in Bloc seats as a result.

A more popular Liberal party will take federalist votes away from the NDP and probably allow the bloc to sneak in up the middle in a few ridings. I figure the difference in policies make it less likely that Quebec voters will switch too or from the Conservatives, whereas the Libs/NDP are closer ideologically to themselves and to the 'average' Quebec voter.

[The_Squid]

The Kits Bay coast guard fiasco will cost the Conservatives seats in BC.

[cybercoma]

Nope... IMO he'll be losing seats... And I use three periods to end my sentences, so I win...

in my opinion, if he runs again, Harper will pick up exactly 1 seat, just like he did in the last election. Edited April 22, 2013 by cybercoma

[g_bambino]

In the next federal election, all of the federal party leaders will be from Quebec

Elizabeth May isn't from Quebec.

[Argus]

Minor point... I don't think the Conservatives were attacking Trudeau because "he was a Quebecer". I think they are attacking him over statements he made where he made statements suggesting Quebecers are somehow "better" than the rest of Canada.

I don't think August will understand the distinction.

[The_Squid]

Elizabeth May isn't from Quebec.

And the BQ is hardly a federal party.... They are more akin to a lobby group that managed to get elected to government. To call them a federal party is generous to say the least....

[g_bambino]

And the BQ is hardly a federal party.... They are more akin to a lobby group that managed to get elected to government. To call them a federal party is generous to say the least....

Mmm.. Indeed.

[August1991]

I don't think August will understand the distinction.

I understand the point precisely. And I think that it's a big mistake.

That's ridiculous, they did no such thing.

That's exactly what the Conservative attack ad did.

It used a quote (out of context) where Justin Trudeau supposedly said that Quebecers were better than other Canadians. (In fact, Trudeau Jnr meant something entirely different. He meant to say, as his father often did, that Quebecers didn't need special status.)

On this point, I fear that the Conservative attack ad was designed to separate (some) Ontario voters from Quebec and Trudeau Jnr. It is designed to create a West/Ontario coalition rather than a Quebec/Ontario coalition.

----

Look, I know that the federal Liberals belittled the West to create an Ontario/Quebec coalition and win elections.

As I often argue: Canada's federal politics are regional, not ideological.

But I think that Harper is playing with fire to belittle Quebec to create an Ontario/West coalition. There are certain regional faultlines that are fundamental to Canada.

Moreover, Harper is playing with the fire of Toronto's 905 region.

Edited April 24, 2013 by August1991

[Argus]

I understand the point precisely. And I think that it's a big mistake.That's exactly what the Conservative attack ad did.

It used a quote (out of context) where Justin Trudeau supposedly said that Quebecers were better than other Canadians. (In fact, Trudeau Jnr meant something entirely different. Hemeant to say, as his father often did, that Quebecers didn't need special status.)

Trudeau junior has made it fairly clear for some years now that he is a Quebecer first and foremost, and then a Canadian. In that context the ad was entirely fair.

That you don't understand why that would irk others is due to the fact you share a similar sentiment.

[August1991]

Trudeau junior has made it fairly clear for some years now that he is a Quebecer first and foremost, and then a Canadian. In that context the ad was entirely fair.

That you don't understand why that would irk others is due to the fact you share a similar sentiment.

Fine, let Harper run on this point. (The fact that it's questionable is not an issue apparently... )

-----

If Harper wants to win a federal election by dividing French and English Canada, dividing Quebec from the rest of Canada, then let's see where this strategy leads.

Justification A) Maybe Harper intends to call Quebec's bluff... (Put up or shut up.)

Justification B ) Or maybe Harper means to say: We don't need Quebec anymore. (Electorally.)

And presumably, Harper believes that either justification will work in English-Canada. Presumably, his "I'm tired of Quebec" strategy will win him votes in the rest of Canada, enough to win a majority.

=====

I frankly think that if Harper runs on this strategy (whatever the justification), his children will not have breakfast in 24 Sussex in 2016, and they may suffer worse when they go to university in 2017.

Edited May 1, 2013 by August1991

[August1991]

Elizabeth May isn't from Quebec.

True, but she's attempted to be regional. She's an American who was once a candidate in NS, and now she's in BC.

PS. I have no problem with American candidates in Canadian elections.

Edited May 1, 2013 by August1991

[PIK]

Canadian born people only for the PM.

[guyser]

Canadian born people only for the PM.

Ok. How about Prime Minister Khadr ? He was born here.

Bye Bye Sir John A , McKenzie , Powell and John Turner.

Why so xenophobic?

[August1991]

QUEBEC – Stephen Harper says people are “fed up” with the old constitutional battles that have been around his entire life.

The prime minister was making his first official visit to Quebec on Friday since allegations surfaced that Supreme Court of Canada justices intervened in the patriation of the Constitution.

When asked by a reporter about the controversy, Harper said his government’s priority is the economy of the 21st century and not the constitutional disputes of the 1980s.

“I think that the whole population is fed up with this discussion,” Harper said shortly after he announced 55 clean-energy projects at a hotel in Quebec City.

“We’ve lived with this for all my life, all our lives.”

Global News

Harper is encouraging the divide between English and French Canada. I think that this is a grievous, strategical mistake.

The interpretation in Quebec and English Canada is that Harper is "fed up" of Quebec.

Edited May 5, 2013 by August1991

[Muddy]

Harper passed a motion in Parliament that Quebec was a nation if my memorey is correct. Cost Michael Chong his cabinet seat when he disagreed. Chong,a very brave and true Canadian. Harper on the other hand did what young Trudeau in the ad is accused of.

[Argus]

Fine, let Harper run on this point. (The fact that it's questionable is not an issue apparently... )

Almost everything political people accuse their opposition of is questionable to some degree. I don't think it's really very seriously questioned that Trudeau thinks of Quebec before Canada.

--If Harper wants to win a federal election by dividing French and English Canada, dividing Quebec from the rest of Canada, then let's see where this strategy leads.

Are you joking? Quebec has been divided from English Canada for decades. And Quebec based politicians revel in it, always pandering to Quebecers sense of victimhood and telling them how the rest of Canada doesn't understand them, doesn't respect them, doesn't treat them right, and only THEY can FIGHT for Quebec. Harper did everything he could to win Quebecers over in his earlier years and Quebecers, for the most part, ignored him because he's not French. Quebecers will never vote for an anglo given a French alternative. And it doesn't matter how good his French is or how much he bows to them and gives them more money and toys and respect. Ultimately, Quebecers are a parochial and 'provincial' people who are entirely inward focused and don't trust anyone who is not a French Quebecer. They've always been that way. The difference is that with the population shifting westward Harper has shown he can form a majority without Quebec. Good on him. Screw Quebec.

[August1991]

Almost everything political people accuse their opposition of is questionable to some degree. I don't think it's really very seriously questioned that Trudeau thinks of Quebec before Canada.

Well then, let Harper (a WASP) try to use that same argument to get people in the 905 to vote Conservative against a minority francophone federalist.

"Trudeau only thinks about Quebecers; but I think about you."

Are you joking? Quebec has been divided from English Canada for decades.

....

Screw Quebec.

And screw those swarthy immigrants too.

-----

Many people have come to Canada precisely because they want to live in civilized peace.

If anglophone Stephen Harper can't get along with francophone Quebecers, indeed if Harper's strategy is to win a federal election on sectarianism, then he will have trouble in Toronto's suburbs.

If Trudeau Jnr, a member of Canada's linguistic minority community is apparently and credibly popular among the majority, then Harper (and more certainly Mulcair, a Catholic anglophone) will face trouble in the so-called allophone communities.

Edited May 8, 2013 by August1991