Margaret Thatcher 1925-2013

[Guest American Woman]

And the MK Umkhonto we Sizwe were certainly terrorists.

To be fair, the people they were fighting against were rather 'terrorist-like,' too; however, as the president they were fighting against pointed out, Thatcher did not support apartheid. In that regard, I'm waiting to hear if WWWTT supported the sanctions against Iraq - and spoke out against those who didn't.

[WWWTT]

And the MK Umkhonto we Sizwe were certainly terrorists.

And according to Thatcher,so was Mandella.

Also she thanked a fascist dictator who led a violent military coup and killed tens of thousands of Chileans for politics for bringing democracy to Chile!

And she was against gay rights!

Perhaps you like her because maybe you share her views?

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Good Lord.Again comments are hardly "facts"

That Thatcher tried to get Mandela released from prison isn't a "comment," it's a fact.

That Thatcher was critical of apartheid isn't a "comment," it's a fact.

So again. Did you, or did you not, support the sanctions against Iraq? Did you, or did you not, criticize and speak out against those who did not support the sanctions?

[Guest American Woman]

DogOnPorch, on 10 Apr 2013 - 19:46, said:

And the MK Umkhonto we Sizwe were certainly terrorists.

And according to Thatcher,so was Mandella.

Mandela founded the MK.

[DogOnPorch]

To be fair, the people they were fighting against were rather 'terrorist-like,' too; however, as the president they were fighting against pointed out, Thatcher did not support apartheid. In that regard, I'm waiting to hear if WWWTT supported the sanctions against Iraq - and spoke out against those who didn't.

That really doesn't matter. They chose the route of pure terror.

For example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Street_bombing

...but, sure...freedom fighters.

Mandela was one of the founding members. In order to defeat the dragon, they became the dragon. Let's not pretend they were of higher moral substance if they're willing to kill women and children at bus stops.

[Guest American Woman]

Mandela was one of the founding members. In order to defeat the dragon, they became the dragon. Let's not pretend they were of higher moral substance if they're willing to kill women and children at bus stops.

I didn't mean to imply that they were of higher moral substance; just that those they were fighting against weren't of high moral substance themselves. Edited April 11, 2013 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

And according to Thatcher,so was Mandella.

Also she thanked a fascist dictator who led a violent military coup and killed tens of thousands of Chileans for politics for bringing democracy to Chile!

And she was against gay rights!

Perhaps you like her because maybe you share her views?

WWWTT

The world is grey...not black and white. For every Pinochet there's an Allende. I also doubt anyone today would actually support something as Draconian as Section 28. But, if you do some looking, it's interesting as to WHO supported it back then.

[DogOnPorch]

I didn't mean to imply that they were of higher moral substance; just that those they were fighting against weren't of high moral substance themselves.

Of course not. But like the Arab-Israeli conflict, the history of South Afrika isn't 1-2-3 easy-breezy to figure out. Leon Uris wrote an excellent book on the South Afrika called "The Covenant". Worth a look.

[Guest American Woman]

WWWTT -

Did you, or did you not, support the sanctions against Iraq? Did you, or did you not, criticize and speak out against those who did not support the sanctions?

Why are you not answering? It's a simple question.

[Guest American Woman]

Of course not. But like the Arab-Israeli conflict, the history of South Afrika isn't 1-2-3 easy-breezy to figure out. Leon Uris wrote an excellent book on the South Afrika called "The Covenant". Worth a look.

I agree. Again, I just didn't want to be critical of just the one side ...

I think it's worth pointing out that Mandela and the president of South Africa at the time received the Nobel Peace Prize.

The Nobel Peace Prize 1993 was awarded jointly to Nelson Mandela and Frederik Willem de Klerk "for their work for the peaceful termination of the apartheid regime, and for laying the foundations for a new democratic South Africa"

[DogOnPorch]

I agree. Again, I just didn't want to be critical of just the one side ...

I think it's worth pointing out that Mandela and the president of South Africa at the time received the Nobel Peace Prize.

The Nobel Peace Prize 1993 was awarded jointly to Nelson Mandela and Frederik Willem de Klerk "for their work for the peaceful termination of the apartheid regime, and for laying the foundations for a new democratic South Africa"

And that's the joke.

[g_bambino]

I'll take facts...

Only selectively and in a vacuum of context.

[Guest]

Actually, not according to the rules. Teacher!

It stimulated discussion...

[DogOnPorch]

It stimulated discussion...

I checked it out....

[WWWTT]

WWWTT -

Did you, or did you not, support the sanctions against Iraq? Did you, or did you not, criticize and speak out against those who did not support the sanctions?

Why are you not answering? It's a simple question.

What are you talking about lady???

Am I supposed to run to my computer because you have some way out there hysterical question?

Maybe you should try breathing in a paper bag for a bit.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Only selectively and in a vacuum of context.

Ya that's right.

Supporting a fascist dictator that killed tens of thousands of political opponents.

Thank you for bringing democracy to Chile!

That's cherry picking in all it's glory!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Here some more "vacuum" opinions

[WWWTT]

Can millions of people be living in a vacuum???

[WWWTT]

Here's some more vacuum politics

[Hudson Jones]

Thatcher represented some of the worst of the 21st century colonial power. She supported some of the worst dictators in the past 50 years, ranging from Pinochet, Ian Smith of Zimbabwe (Rhodesia), to Pieter Botha of South Africa. She was instrumental in extending the suffering of millions of people in South Africa and Latin America. She called the worst dictators her friends and freedom fighter like Mandela a terrorist.

Why should there be any excuse given to a person who gave Pinochet amnesty? A dictator who was tried and convicted for crimes against humanity?

Followers of the late Chilean dictator Augusto Pinocher published two obituaries in the country’s leading newspaper expressing their condolences on the death of the former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, whom they describe as “an extraordinary stateswoman” and friend of Chile “in very difficult moments in recent history”

Link

These diabolic colonialists and their supporters should be pointed out and shamed. Look at what her son was up to less than 10 years ago:

Sir Mark Thatcher has left South Africa after pleading guilty over his involvement in an alleged coup plot in Equatorial Guinea.

Link

It's quite amusing and telling watching people like American Woman try to excuse Thatcher's support for some of the worst dictators in the past 50 years, who created so much human suffering. It is no wonder why American Woman and most other Thatcher supporters also try to excuse Israel's apartheid like behaviour towards the Palestinians.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[Guest American Woman]

What are you talking about lady???

Am I supposed to run to my computer because you have some way out there hysterical question?

Maybe you should try breathing in a paper bag for a bit.

Generally speaking, when someone goes on a rant like this instead of answering the question, it's because they are pleading the fifth. I'm sure this is no exception.

I would imagine your refusal to answer the question is because you didn't support the sanctions against Iraq - as you criticize Thatcher for not supporting the sanctions against South Africa, for the same reasons. Quite telling.

Edited April 11, 2013 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

It's quite amusing and telling watching people like American Woman try to excuse Thatcher's support for some of the worst dictators in the past 50 years, who created so much human suffering. It is no wonder why American Woman and most other Thatcher supporters also try to excuse Israel's apartheid like behaviour towards the Palestinians.

I'll ask you the same thing that I asked WWWTT, Hudson. Did you support the sanctions against Iraq? Did you criticize and speak out against those who did not support the sanctions? And what about Mandela Nelson thanking her for trying so hard to get him released from prison - and his thanking her for helping end Apartheid - how do you feel about that? - Do you also accuse him of supporting some of the worse dictators in the past 50 years because of it?

[DogOnPorch]

Generally speaking, when someone goes on a rant like this instead of answering the question, it's because they are pleading the fifth. I'm sure this is no exception.

I would imagine your refusal to answer the question is because you didn't support the sanctions against Iraq - as you criticize Thatcher for not supporting the sanctions against South Africa, for the same reasons. Quite telling.

All these various 'pics with quips' remind me of posters from the USSR days.

[Hudson Jones]

I'll ask you the same thing that I asked WWWTT, Hudson. Did you support the sanctions against Iraq? Did you criticize and speak out against those who did not support the sanctions?

The situations were different. The parties were different. The sanctions were different.

You can't draw a parallel between them. Saddam was a dictator who had always been a dictator, even during his great friendship with the U.S. Even during the years where it used chemical weapons against the Kurds and Iranians. This dictator suddenly became an enemy because he decided not to be a puppet to the U.S. While the S.A. apartheid government was a colonialist government who practised apartheid against those who it had colonised.

Not to mention that the type of sanctions imposed on Iraq were different. They continued to make the oil flow, while they mostly effected the people of the country by starving them of food and depriving them of medicine and common goods.

Your superficial comparison doesn't add up and it fails to take attention away from Thatcher being on the wrong side of history.

And what about Mandela Nelson thanking her for trying so hard to get him released from prison - and his thanking her for helping end Apartheid - how do you feel about that?

Please back this up with some links. If it was posted in this thread, I must have missed it.

- Do you also accuse him of supporting some of the worse dictators in the past 50 years because of it?

Huh? What?

Okay.

Now answer these questions:

Was it okay for Thatcher to support Pinochet? To call him a friend and give him amnesty after being convicted for crimes against humanity? Was it okay for Thatcher to support Ian Smith? Was it okay for Thatcher for supporting Botha?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[WWWTT]

All these various 'pics with quips' remind me of posters from the USSR days.

People that are out on the street expressing their loss for a great leader and people on the street expressing their joy over the loss of someone whom they feel was oppressive reminds you of propaganda posters????

Ok, if you say so

WWWTT