Cornea Transplant System Broken

bush_cheney2004 · March 22, 2013

from your single (claimed) American’s perspective… through your highlighting of a shared testing protocol… you’re exploring and discovering misunderstood aspects of CanAm relations!!! And no, obviously, all you’re showcasing is nothing more than an ongoing, year over year, display of your juvenile trolling – package it any way you’d like, call it anything you want… it’s trolling, nothing more, nothing less!

I am a guest on this forum, subject to the same rules as any other member. Your continued whinings about trolling (which really means anybody you disagree with) have been reviewed and summarily dismissed by our host and mods. Please ignore this thread if you find the topic / content to be objectionable and/or not in keeping with your 'sensitivities'.

We all want your MLW experience to be interesting, delightful, and rewarding..... as we take this journey through virtual life....together.

Edited March 22, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

guyser · March 22, 2013

"Ontario patients wait, on average, 18-to-24 months for the surgery."

Wonderful! We have acknowledged this at least 50 times now. No one has dismissed this at any time for any reason.

Shall I speak slow for you? Understanding the question is paramount.

What issues / problems /concerns are there with the actual cornea surgery performed in Canada.

Afterall, we have similar results once performed. You have opined time and time again that we have horrible results, yet not one link cite post whathaveyou that suggests thats the truth.

Now stay on key here and answer one easy question as pointed out above. Think that be too hard ?

My...do I have to post photos of the actual surgery and wasted tissue in a medical waste receptacle ?

I see , you cannot refute , thus you have a stab at humour.

Pathetic is being kind.

No, I embrace them as examples in liberty, and the U.S. system still manages to replace corneas 'mo better than in Canada.

Did anyone say otherwise? Holy F you are dense. Edited March 22, 2013 by guyser

guyser · March 22, 2013

I am a guest on this forum, subject to the same rules as any other member. Your continued whinings about trolling (which really means anybody you disagree with) have been reviewed and summarily dismissed by our host and mods.

You actually have no idea about that since they do not discuss it with you nor anyone else that isnt a mod.

The troll thing just to get a rise is pathetic, but it has become part of your shtick.

Dont answer questions, just make horrible attempts to find hot button issues/words...IOW...a troll. YOu have not offered one single attempt to find any solution to any problem, so what is your purpose , scratch that, you already answere you do troll on these issues.

Fine, just dont expect anyone to lay down while you peddle your bullshit.

bush_cheney2004 · March 22, 2013

Wonderful! We have acknowledged this at least 50 times now. No one has dismissed this at any time for any reason.

Shall I speak slow for you? Understanding the question is paramount.

Excellent...we now agree that there are problems with corneal transplant surgeries and system in Canada compared to "developed" and even some "undeveloped" nations.

...What issues / problems /concerns are there with the actual cornea surgery performed in Canada.

Sir, I am not an opthamologist, but I have read MAD Magazine. The issues seem to be long ass wait times, wasted donor tissue, poor cross-provincial coordination of resources, and non-standardization across provinces. Canada manages hockey tickets better than donor corneas.

Afterall, we have similar results once performed. You have opined time and time again that we have horrible results, yet not one link cite post whathaveyou that suggests thats the truth.

"Once performed" is only the beginning of the gap(s). Access to a wait list is not access to health care - Supreme Court of Canada

Now stay on key here and answer one easy question as pointed out above. Think that be too hard ?

I don't think I like your tone, and make no apologies for posting a thread about a very serious problem for many Canadians needing corneal surgery.

.... I see , you cannot refute , thus you have a stab at humour.

Pathetic is being kind.

Did anyone say otherwise? Holy F you are dense.

You are still angry and continue to pout. I am going to change my donor card to say my organs (including corneas) can go to anybody, even in Canada, except for a guy named......

bush_cheney2004 · March 22, 2013

....Dont answer questions, just make horrible attempts to find hot button issues/words...IOW...a troll. YOu have not offered one single attempt to find any solution to any problem, so what is your purpose , scratch that, you already answere you do troll on these issues.

The solution(s) are obvious....as stated in the original piece that sent you into a hateful rant. Besides, the solutions should come from within Canada from Canadians, not smart ass Americans. Stop looking so much to the U.S. for solutions, as this is part of the problem.

Fine, just dont expect anyone to lay down while you peddle your bullshit.

Despite your tirade, I remain in good spirits, as Wisconsin has lost to Ole Miss....you know...where those "poor black people" live.

waldo · March 23, 2013

You gloss over any problems in the US health system I have brought up....no one wonders why of course.
no, no, no... he's too busy claiming to explore a larger dynamic... the greater aspects of CanAm relations! Why would he ever want to acknowledge and speak to the problems within the American Health Disadvantage? That's crazy talk!

But you insisted that I stay on topic.....and the topic is dismal corneal transplant surgery/system in Canada. You wouldn't go off topic, would you?

no, no, no... I'm exploring a larger dynamic! The one where you refuse to acknowledge and discuss the "U.S. Failings" associated with the American Health Disadvantage. Instead, your pissant self reaches for your tried-and-true troll, scours about and finds some trivial reference to a shared testing protocol... one of your greater aspects of CanAm relations. :lol:

instead of you having the wherewithal to even attempt to challenge American references written by Americans for Americans, your extreme sensitivity to having MLW members speak to a "U.S. Failing" sees your juvenile trolling one-trick pony show come forward. Of course, this is simply another extension of your deflecting deflector act we saw in the recent main event... the MLW thread, "The American Health Disadvantage":

Apparently... the deflecting deflectors are loath to actually read the report. You know... the report/study from the U.S. National Research Council and the U.S. Institute of Medicine... the report/study sponsored by the U.S. National Institutes of Health and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The report/study that compared the U.S. to 16 peer nations -- affluent democracies that include Australia, Canada, Japan, and many western European countries.

The report/study that concludes there is a comparable U.S. health disadvantage relative to these other world's rich nations. The report/study that shows that the unfavourable U.S. health comparison exists across all ages of the U.S. citizenry - from birth to age 75. The report/study that finds the conclusion also applies to advantaged Americans; those with health insurance, college educations, higher incomes, and healthy behaviors -- that these advantaged Americans appear to be sicker than their peers in other rich nations. The report/study that concludes that the U.S. is at or near the bottom in nine key areas of health: infant mortality and low birth weight; obesity and diabetes; heart disease; chronic lung disease; disability; injuries and homicides; teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections; prevalence of HIV and AIDS and drug-related deaths.

Apparently, the deflecting deflectors within this thread don't recognize evaluating/measuring/comparing health compromises many avenues... health care, disease, injury, behaviour, underlying social values and economic conditions, public policies, physical environments, etc. Go figure!

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

no, no, no... I'm exploring a larger dynamic!

Given your recent protests and umbrage at such off topic things, I think it best we stay on point here. Please start another thread if you wish to explore the larger dynamic in all its CanAm glory.

waldo · March 23, 2013

oh no - this is clearly on point, on topic. It's a/the foundation for your trolling best! I'll see your trivial shared testing protocol and raise you the report you refuse to acknowledge/accept: from that recent MLW thread's OP, the thread discussing the "American Health Disadvantage":

New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last ... how does that stack up against your shared testing protocol!!!

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

oh no - this is clearly on point, on topic. It's a/the foundation for your trolling best! I'll see your trivial shared testing protocol and raise you the report you refuse to acknowledge/accept: from that recent MLW thread's OP, the thread discussing the "American Health Disadvantage":

And yet there is a serious gap for specific procedures and testing in Canada.....this thread focuses on but one of them....corneal transplant surgery.

New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last ... how does that stack up against your shared testing protocol!!!

It's not 'shared' at all, but adopted by the provinces and poorly executed, underfunded, and lacking wide donor participation. Let me guess...you think that NASA and Goddard are 'shared" too, right ?

waldo · March 23, 2013

And yet there is a serious gap

you bet... the serious American Health Disadvantage gap - you know, as identified within the report you refuse to acknowledge:

U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

CBC radio program about the pressing corneal transplant surgery issue in Canada:

Solution to cornea shortage in Canada

Cornea transplants are often a person's last hope to save their vision. But
eye doctors in Canada say those who need the surgery are waiting far too
long to get it. The problem is a shortage of donor tissue in this
country. There appears to be a solution. The CBC's John Archer explains.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Shows/Alberta/Calgary+Eyeopener/ID/2254496145/?page=5&sort=MostRecent

Edited March 23, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

you bet... the serious American Health Disadvantage gap - you know, as identified within the report you refuse to acknowledge:

U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health

If you say so, yet I can get a corneal transplant much faster than most Canadians (doesn't include Canadians traveling to the U.S. for health care).

How can this be ?

Edited March 23, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

waldo · March 23, 2013

The US Health Disadvantage Relative to Other High-Income Countries - Findings From a National Research Council/Institute of Medicine Report

The United States spends more on health care than does any other country, but its health outcomes are generally worse than those of other wealthy nations. People in the United States experience higher rates of disease and injury and die earlier than people in other high-income countries. Although this health disadvantage has been increasing for decades, its scale is only now becoming more apparent.

A new report¹ from the National Research Council and Institute of Medicine (NRC/IOM) documents that US males and females in almost all age groups—up to age 75 years—have shorter life expectancies than their counterparts in 16 other wealthy, developed nations: Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom. The scope of the US health disadvantage is pervasive and involves more than life expectancy: the United States ranks at or near the bottom in both prevalence and mortality for multiple diseases, risk factors, and injuries.

how do you like those American Health Disadvantage apples, hey?

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

The US Health Disadvantage Relative to Other High-Income Countries - Findings From a National Research Council/Institute of Medicine Report

how do you like those American Health Disadvantage apples, hey?

I like them fine....you are under an erroneous assumption. Do you have anything to offer on the topic of improving corneal transplant surgeries in Canada ? They are not a problem in the U.S. with its "health disadvantage"....in fact...U.S. corneas are imported by provinces, only to be wasted in many cases.

waldo · March 23, 2013

New York Times editorial: America’s Health Disadvantage

It is no secret that the United States spends a lot more on health care than any other country yet ranks far behind other advanced nations in keeping its citizens healthy. This has been well documented in studies of older people and of newborn infants. It is now shockingly clear that poor health is a much broader and deeper problem than past studies have suggested.

An authoritative report issued by the Institute of Medicine this week found that, on average, Americans experience higher rates of disease and injury and die sooner than people in other high-income countries. That is true at all ages between birth and 75 and for even well-off Americans who mistakenly think that top-tier medical care ensures that they will remain in good health. The study found that even upper-income Americans with health insurance and college educations appear to be sicker than their peers in other rich nations.

waldo · March 23, 2013

Do you have anything to offer

yes, yes I do: U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health

The United States is among the wealthiest nations in the world, but it is far from the healthiest. For many years, Americans have been dying at younger ages than people in almost all other high-income countries. This health disadvantage prevails even though the U.S. spends far more per person on health care than any other nation. To gain a better understanding of this problem, the NIH asked the National Research Council and the IOM to investigate potential reasons for the U.S. health disadvantage and to assess its larger implications.

No single factor can fully explain the U.S. health disadvantage. It likely has multiple causes and involves some combination of inadequate health care, unhealthy behaviors, adverse economic and social conditions, and environmental factors, as well as public policies and social values that shape those conditions. Without action to reverse current trends, the health of Americans will probably continue to fall behind that of people in other high-income countries. The tragedy is not that the U.S. is losing a contest with other countries, but that Americans are dying and suffering from illness and injury at rates that are demonstrably unnecessary.

clearly, your false/fake narrative concerning the "greater dynamic and aspects of CanAm relations" is an easier troll outlet for you... much easier than you having to take stock over the failings of your (claimed) country's health system - yes?

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

....clearly, your false/fake narrative concerning the "greater dynamic and aspects of CanAm relations" is an easier troll outlet for you... much easier than you having to take stock over the failings of your (claimed) country's health system - yes?

No....trolls don't need health care, do they ? But if they did, I'm sure they would fly to the U.S.A. for treatment, just like Chretien, Stronach, and Williams.

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

Manitobans wait for corneal transplant surgery:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xybwec_thousands-of-patients-in-canada-waiting-for-cornea-transplants-can-wait-anywhere-from-five-months-to_news

waldo · March 23, 2013

No....trolls don't need health care, do they ? But if they did, I'm sure they would fly to the U.S.A. for treatment, just like Chretien, Stronach, and Williams.

don't forget about Sarah Palin, as she said, 'hustling across the Canadian border for healthcare'... apparently, Russia was too far... even though she could see it!

speaking of vision problems tied to the American Health Disadvantage, the U.S. Obesity epidemic and the resulting significant rise of diabetes in the U.S. (#1 in the world), John Hopkins University researchers have recently highlighted an associated dramatic U.S. escalation in vision impacting Diabetic Retinopathy. Is this related at all to the CNIB testing protocol? :lol:

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2013

don't forget about Sarah Palin, as she said, 'hustling across the Canadian border for healthcare'... apparently, Russia was too far... even though she could see it!

It is refreshing to read Gov. Palin compared to Canada's finest....she has certainly earned such respect. She also didn't have a universal health care program to flee from in Alaska.

speaking of vision problems tied to the American Health Disadvantage, the U.S. Obesity epidemic and the resulting significant rise of diabetes in the U.S. (#1 in the world), John Hopkins University researchers have recently highlighted an associated dramatic U.S. escalation in vision impacting Diabetic Retinopathy. Is this related at all to the CNIB testing protocol?

It's a good thing that requisite care is far more readily available with shorter waits than in Canada.

waldo · March 24, 2013

speaking of vision problems tied to the American Health Disadvantage, the U.S. Obesity epidemic and the resulting significant rise of diabetes in the U.S. (#1 in the world), John Hopkins University researchers have recently highlighted an associated dramatic U.S. escalation in vision impacting Diabetic Retinopathy. Is this related at all to the CNIB testing protocol?

of course, the U.S. Obesity epidemic is more than just a contributor to the dramatic rise in vision impairement/loss associated with diabetes retinopathy... the significant numbers of fat Americans are also increasingly at risk for other causes of sight loss - macular degeneration and cataracts.

bush_cheney2004 · March 24, 2013

In general, very long wait times for health care procedures in Canada include a 'quality of life' surcharge and sometimes permanent debilitation that would not have otherwise occurred The CNIB says:

Waiting longer than six months for cataract surgery leads to vision
loss, an increased rate of falls and a reduced quality of life, say
experts in a report published in the Canadian Medical Association
journal.

waldo · March 24, 2013

The CNIB says:

Waiting longer than six months for cataract surgery leads to vision

loss, an increased rate of falls and a reduced quality of life, say

experts in a report published in the Canadian Medical Association

journal.

:lol: it's a shame your graphic benchmark for Cataracts @112 days doesn't match... doesn't support... your CNIB quote for vision loss concern > 180-186 days! Notwithstanding the Canadian triage aspect for emergency versus wait listing, using your CNIB quote, at least 90% of all Canadians across Canada proper are receiving Cataract surgery within the CNIB's described 'concern period'. Keep trying, lil' buddy - keep trying!

.

bush_cheney2004 · March 24, 2013

it's a shame your graphic benchmark for Cataracts @112 days doesn't match... doesn't support... your CNIB quote for vision loss concern > 180-186 days! Notwithstanding the Canadian triage aspect for emergency versus wait listing, using your CNIB quote, at least 90% of all Canadians across Canada proper are receiving Cataract surgery within the CNIB's described 'concern period'. Keep trying, lil' buddy - keep trying!

In Canadaspeak, this is just 'sad'....sad than an entire nation could be convinced that waiting no more than six months for routine medical procedures is not only acceptable, but the benchmark to aspire to.

What are Canadians waiting for ? Why do they have to wait so long in a universal access health care system ?

waldo · March 24, 2013

it's a shame your graphic benchmark for Cataracts @112 days doesn't match... doesn't support... your CNIB quote for vision loss concern > 180-186 days! Notwithstanding the Canadian triage aspect for emergency versus wait listing, using your CNIB quote, at least 90% of all Canadians across Canada proper are receiving Cataract surgery within the CNIB's described 'concern period'. Keep trying, lil' buddy - keep trying!

In Canadaspeak, this is just 'sad'....sad than an entire nation could be convinced that waiting no more than six months for routine medical procedures is not only acceptable, but the benchmark to aspire to.

What are Canadians waiting for ? Why do they have to wait so long in a universal access health care system ?

.

just admit you failed... your two cites mismatched... one doesn't support the other!!! You tried to make hay with your CNIB quote. :lol: Sorry to steal your thunder! It's a shame you haven't the wherewithal to actually interpret and analyze, hey? Your cut&paste act let's you down, once again!!!

as you've been repeatedly told/advised, the Canadian wait list system is one designed around triage principals. Those with dire/emergency needs are prioritized. You can keep playing this same wait list game... the same BS game you continually trot out, thread after thread... while equally ignoring direct examples of U.S. wait lists/periods presented to you. All while you continue to ignore the greater "American health disadvantage"!