bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 . just admit you failed... your two cites mismatched... one doesn't support the other!!! You tried to make hay with your CNIB quote. Sorry to steal your thunder! It's a shame you haven't the wherewithal to actually interpret and analyze, hey? Your cut&paste act let's you down, once again!!! Nope....the poorer performance graphic came from a parallel CBC story about wait times not improving despite more investment and procedures. It is cited in an earlier post. as you've been repeatedly told/advised, the Canadian wait list system is one designed around triage principals. Those with dire/emergency needs are prioritized. You can keep playing this same wait list game... the same BS game you continually trot out, thread after thread... while equally ignoring direct examples of U.S. wait lists/periods presented to you. All while you continue to ignore the greater "American health disadvantage"! Stupid long wait times in Canada has little to do with the United States, save for Canadians getting fed up with waiting and suffering for 'triage principles'. Why do Canadians have to wait so long for such simple procedures ? Why is the country so backward when it comes to managing health care resources that are so much less expensive than in the U.S. ? Why do provinces have official wait time web sites ? Why...why....why ??? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 24, 2013 Report Posted March 24, 2013 Nope....the poorer performance graphic came from a parallel CBC story don't back-pedal! Just accept your two cut&paste efforts contradicted each other!!! It's a shame you can't interpret/analyze - oh, the embarrassment! Stupid long wait times in Canada has little to do with the United States, save for Canadians getting fed up with waiting and suffering for 'triage principles'. Why do Canadians have to wait so long for such simple procedures ? Why is the country so backward when it comes to managing health care resources that are so much less expensive than in the U.S. ? Why do provinces have official wait time web sites ? Why...why....why ??? why do you keep asking the same questions, ad nauseum? While ignoring your own (claimed) country's wait lists/periods? You/your (claimed) country certainly has no standing to speak of any other country as "backward" - see the "American Health Disadvantage"... "dead last" buddy, dead last! The U.S. spends more than any country on its health system and realizes the worst return on that exorbitant investment - and you simply accept it. You're ok with it. Notwithstanding the millions of Americans that either have no health coverage, or are outright denied health coverage, or can't afford health coverage... what a system - the "American Health Disadvantage"! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 don't back-pedal! Just accept your two cut&paste efforts contradicted each other!!! It's a shame you can't interpret/analyze - oh, the embarrassment! Obviously you remain in denial while fellow Canadians face blindness. why do you keep asking the same questions, ad nauseum? While ignoring your own (claimed) country's wait lists/periods? You/your (claimed) country certainly has no standing to speak of any other country as "backward" - see the "American Health Disadvantage"... "dead last" buddy, dead last! The U.S. spends more than any country on its health system and realizes the worst return on that exorbitant investment - and you simply accept it. You're ok with it. Notwithstanding the millions of Americans that either have no health coverage, or are outright denied health coverage, or can't afford health coverage... what a system - the "American Health Disadvantage"! I am very much OK with it because the U.S. does not promise universal payer CommieCare to all citizens. Your continued attempts at deflection away from the original OP with regard to corneal transplant surgery...and now cataracts surgery...is noted. Tell me, do Canadians wear t-shirts that trumpet 'Triage Principles' the way you do ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 24, 2013 Report Posted March 24, 2013 Obviously you remain in denial while fellow Canadians face blindness. no - again, dire/emergency needs are prioritized within the Canadian health system. It is quite telling you're so focused on a few thousand Canadians while completely ignoring the dramatic vision loss attributed to the American Obesity Epidemic and diabetic complications associated with diabetic retinopathy. Quite telling, indeed! Obviously you remain in denial while fellow fat Americans face blindness. I am very much OK with it because the U.S. does not promise universal payer CommieCare to all citizens. Your continued attempts at deflection away from the original OP with regard to corneal transplant surgery...and now cataracts surgery...is noted. it took a while... usually you trot out the "CommieCare" tag much earlier than this. Don't shoulder that weight on your own (claimed) country's back... take solace in the fact that the U.S. is not alone - Mexico and Turkey are the only other countries within the 34 world's leading industrialized nations that haven't managed to provide universal health coverage to its citizens. Go with Mexico... and Turkey!!! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 .... Quite telling, indeed! Obviously you remain in denial while fellow fat Americans face blindness. Heard in Canada, "Grandpa, why are you going blind?" "Hush my child, Grandpa is not going blind...he is waiting his turn because of triage principles". it took a while... usually you trot out the "CommieCare" tag much earlier than this. Don't shoulder that weight on your own (claimed) country's back... take solace in the fact that the U.S. is not alone - Mexico and Turkey are the only other countries within the 34 world's leading industrialized nations that haven't managed to provide universal health coverage to its citizens. Go with Mexico... and Turkey!!! And yet, they can perform corneal transplants faster than in Canada...amazing. Why ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 24, 2013 Report Posted March 24, 2013 And yet, they can perform corneal transplants faster than in Canada...amazing. Why? Canadians dire/emergency needs are being prioritized and met. and yet, why is there a comparable U.S. health disadvantage relative to other world's rich nations?...amazing. Why? why is there an unfavourable U.S. health comparison that exists across all ages of the U.S. citizenry - from birth to age 75?...amazing. Why? why does the U.S. health disadvantage also apply to advantaged Americans; those with health insurance, college educations, higher incomes, and healthy behaviors?...amazing. Why? why is it that advantaged Americans appear to be sicker than their peers in other rich nations?...amazing. Why? why is it that the U.S. is at or near the bottom in nine key areas of health: infant mortality and low birth weight; obesity and diabetes; heart disease; chronic lung disease; disability; injuries and homicides; teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections; prevalence of HIV and AIDS and drug-related deaths?...amazing. Why? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 Canadians dire/emergency needs are being prioritized and met. Don't 'third world' nations also have such dire emergencies ? Why can't Canada manage this simple resources management task for corneal transplant surgeries. What is the problem ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 24, 2013 Report Posted March 24, 2013 Don't 'third world' nations also have such dire emergencies ? Why can't Canada manage this simple resources management task for corneal transplant surgeries. What is the problem ? why do you continue to deny the health of fat Americans suffering increased rates of diabetic retinopathy? why do you continue to deny the abysmal state of your (claimed) country's health system? and yet, why is there a comparable U.S. health disadvantage relative to other world's rich nations?...amazing. Why? why is there an unfavourable U.S. health comparison that exists across all ages of the U.S. citizenry - from birth to age 75?...amazing. Why? why does the U.S. health disadvantage also apply to advantaged Americans; those with health insurance, college educations, higher incomes, and healthy behaviors?...amazing. Why? why is it that advantaged Americans appear to be sicker than their peers in other rich nations?...amazing. Why? why is it that the U.S. is at or near the bottom in nine key areas of health: infant mortality and low birth weight; obesity and diabetes; heart disease; chronic lung disease; disability; injuries and homicides; teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections; prevalence of HIV and AIDS and drug-related deaths?...amazing. Why? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 why do you continue to deny the health of fat Americans suffering increased rates of diabetic retinopathy? I haven't denied your attempts to derail the topic of corneal transplant surgery FAIL in Canada. Fat Americans have the right to be fat, while Canadians have the "right" to wait in long lines for 'triage principles'. why do you continue to deny the abysmal state of your (claimed) country's health system? Because Canadians love it based on cross border utilization by the provinces and private care. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 24, 2013 Report Posted March 24, 2013 I haven't denied your attempts to derail the topic of corneal transplant surgery FAIL in Canada. Fat Americans have the right to be fat, while Canadians have the "right" to wait in long lines for 'triage principles'. no, no, no - no derail... the focus was kept on vision related impairment/loss. You know, showcasing your failed attempt to compare a few thousand Canadians being managed within the Canadian health system and the millions of Americans at increased risk for vision loss/impairment associated with obesity-to-diabetes-to diabetic retinopathy complications. Because Canadians love it based on cross border utilization by the provinces and private care. we could go there again... we could revisit out-of-country medical care, if you'd like! But really, I would have thought your bruises would still be relatively fresh - yes? accurate real numbers (from the Ontario Health Ministry) for OHIP approved/covered Out Of Country applications: 2011-12: 176* (1st. quarter) 2010-11: 1,076 2009-10: 3,161 2008-09: 3,177 2007-08: 2,463like I said, "mice-nuts" numbers representing health ministries approving Canadians for healthcare in the U.S.... Ontario numbers - you know, the most populated province in Canada with more than 40% of the country's population. "Mice-nuts", hey?... particularly in relation to this handy graphic showing U.S. numbers/projections of Americans 'forced' to seek healthcare outside the U.S.. Wouldn't you say, hey?. . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) no, no, no - no derail... the focus was kept on vision related impairment/loss. You know, showcasing your failed attempt to compare a few thousand Canadians being managed within the Canadian health system and the millions of Americans at increased risk for vision loss/impairment associated with obesity-to-diabetes-to diabetic retinopathy complications. No, the failure of Canada's corneal transplant surgery "system" is plain to see as reported by Canadians to Canadians by Canada's state sponsored, financed, and controlled media. Flopping about over Mexico, or Turkey, or fat people in the USA does not change the obvious system fail for what many other third world nations manage with ease. Something is inherently wrong with the "system" for such a longstanding FAIL to be tolerated so long. Touting a six month wait as admirable becomes ludicrous in such context. we could go there again... we could revisit out-of-country medical care, if you'd like! But really, I would have thought your bruises would still be relatively fresh - yes? . No.....you have run out of distractions, with no answers for the OP's damning numbers. Even fat Americans (and fat Canadians) can see that. Edited March 24, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 24, 2013 Report Posted March 24, 2013 Touting a six month wait as admirable becomes ludicrous in such context. no - now you're flat out making shyte up. You quoted the CNIB 6 month statement... the statement that has absolutely nothing to do with wait times. That was your fail - your mistake in attempting to correlate that quote with wait times... the Canadian benchmark reference for Cataract surgery is 112 days. But bloody hell, you can't even keep your failed talking points straight... now you're conflating corneal and cataract surgery!!! No.....you have run out of distractions, with no answers for the OP's damning numbers. Even fat Americans (and fat Canadians) can see that. no distractions offered. Again, you prefer to focus on a relatively few thousands number of Canadians at risk (albeit managed risk within the Canadian health system's triage approach), while ignoring the significantly greater vision loss/impairment risk to millions of Americans - the risk associated with the U.S. Obesity Epidemic, increasing diabetes and increasing risk for vision loss/impairment related diabetic complications. . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Posted March 24, 2013 no - now you're flat out making shyte up. You quoted the CNIB 6 month statement... the statement that has absolutely nothing to do with wait times. No, too late to back pedal....touting 180 day benchmarks as laudable because of "triage principles" just doesn't cut it, not even in third world nations. Something has gone terribly wrong in this case....why ? no distractions offered. Again, you prefer to focus on a relatively few thousands number of Canadians at risk (albeit managed risk within the Canadian health system's triage approach), while ignoring the significantly greater vision loss/impairment risk to millions of Americans - the risk associated with the U.S. Obesity Epidemic, increasing diabetes and increasing risk for vision loss/impairment related diabetic complications. . The CBC story is about Canada's dismal FAIL when it comes to corneal transplant surgery, not fat Americans. Keep trying though, it is good for my post count. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) No, too late to back pedal....touting 180 day benchmarks as laudable because of "triage principles" just doesn't cut it, not even in third world nations. Something has gone terribly wrong in this case....why ? no - the back pedal is yours... I'm coming at you, head on. The only benchmark referenced is the 112 days for cataract surgery. The 6 month-180 days reference was your big time fail in attempting to correlate a CNIB quote to cataract wait times... a cataract wait time you didn't have the wherewithal to recognize and/or understand in your linked graphics context. . The CBC story is about Canada's dismal FAIL when it comes to corneal transplant surgery, not fat Americans. Keep trying though, it is good for my post count. no - let's recap! Under the auspices of your "greater CanAm dynamic" trolling premise you openly touted your pettiness and ultra-sensitivity to MLW members having the audacity to speak of, as you said, "U.S. Failings" in health/healthcare. Those past MLW threads showcasing the failings of the U.S. health system must really have burnt you bad, real bad, big time! So, of course, in your forever net scouring mode, you deliver up another of your ta-da's where you first start out emphasizing the CNIB utilizes a U.S. testing protocol! Imagine!!! Wow! You scored big time! Even you couldn't stifle your own embarrassment over the trivialness of that gem... so you scoured further to zero in on a shortage of corneas! of course, all of your fake "concern" for the measured risk of vision loss/impairment to Canadians is one balanced against the realities of numbers. The reality of a few thousand Canadians at measured risk (measured within the wait time management of Canada's health system)... balanced against the more significant numbers of millions of Americans at increased risk for vision loss/impairment related to the American Obesity Epidemic/increased diabetes/increased rates of complications relative to diabetes retinopathy, macular degeneration and cataracts. A few thousand Canadians at measured risk versus millions of Americans at increased risk! Clearly, your pettiness and trolling shines mightily through... well done! equally though, this is par for your course. A course where you ignore the greater failings to troll over the lesser significance. Of course, you did exactly the same thing in the relatively recent MLW thread that showcased the greater U.S. Failings in your (claimed) country's "American Health Disadvantage". so you're keen to bump up your post count, hey? Bring it on... I've unlimited cycles ready to continue to zero in on your ultra-sensitivity, pettiness, trolling and avoidance of the greater U.S. Failings. Bring it on! . Edited March 25, 2013 by waldo Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) ...so you're keen to bump up your post count, hey? Bring it on... I've unlimited cycles ready to continue to zero in on your ultra-sensitivity, pettiness, trolling and avoidance of the greater U.S. Failings. Bring it on! OK.....and ignoring your predictable tap dances, MPs have started to get organized around this corneal transplant FAIL: Minister, doctors push for national corneal registry Wait times could be eliminated, say experts Nova Scotia's minister of health says it's time for a national registry and more provincial co-operation when it comes to a procedure that could help hundreds of Atlantic Canadians regain their full sight. Edited March 25, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Posted March 25, 2013 A doctor in Saskatchewan explains just how bad the corneal transplant problem is and that it is completely unnecessary in a developed country like Canada. Waiting two years for a procedure is complete systematic incompetence: http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Saskatchewan/ID/2351045137/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) The CBC reader's Your Community Blog reports strong reactions from Canadians speaking out about the outrageous corneal transplant surgery system. Apparently they do not accept "triage principles" when they are going FRICKIN' BLIND !! Readers share frustrations with cornea transplant system In the comments of our story, two stories in particular stood out: "I have had two transplants, however it took over four years for both tobe completed. It is life-changing as I was completely blind. Waitingfour years to be able to see again can destroy your life. You can't work, you can'tdrive, you can't do anything."Trying to get your life back after four years is impossible. Do you think for five minutes that your job will be there? I don't think so. And then trying to get back into the labour force at 50? Good luck. This could have been avoided if thesystem was fixed," ..... http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2013/03/readers-share-frustrations-with-cornea-transplant-system.html Edited March 25, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 ... when they are going FRICKIN' BLIND !! speaking of... in recent years, the U.S. Obesity Epidemic has been a most topical and high-profiled health concern, leading to a dramatic increase in Americans with diabetes and it's accompanying vision loss/impairment related complications. And now... Americans with diabetes is being elevated to that same epidemic classification! U.S. Diabetes Rates Soaring: CDC Diabetes epidemic brings spike in related eye disease The nation's rising level of diabetes is driving another health problem: a significant jump in adults with vision problems from a related condition called diabetic retinopathy. From 2000 and 2010, there was an 89% increase in the number of people with diabetic retinopathy, which affects the tiny blood vessels of the retina. The most severe forms can impair vision if not treated. About 7.7 million people ages 40 and older have diabetic retinopathy, the new estimates say. The numbers emerge from an analysis, out today, by a group of researchers and sponsored by Prevent Blindness America and the National Eye Institute. "The number we are most alarmed about is the increase in diabetic retinopathy, which is largely due to the diabetes epidemic," says Jeff Todd, chief operating officer of Prevent Blindness America. Thomas W. Gardner, M.D., of Penn State College of Medicine in Hershey, Pa., and Robert A. Gabbay, M.D., Ph.D., note that by 2050 there will be an estimated 16 million Americans with diabetic retinopathy... The cost burden of diabetic ocular disease will be immense, the authors note, as Medicare expenditures for those with non-proliferative diabetic retinopathy are 63 percent higher than the costs for those without retinopathy, and are 400 percent higher for those with proliferative retinopathy. of pointed concern to the U.S. health system is the direct correlation between the lack of universal health care and the absence of insurance making it more difficult for patients to access preventive care... resulting in a most significant presence of undiagnosed diabetes in the U.S. population - estimated as high as 2.8% of the entire population having diabetes and not knowing it! Given the significant absence of preventive care in the United States, one can only surmise many of those Americans with an accompanying diabetes vision loss/impairment complication may realize their diabetic condition based solely on... their degenerating eye sight... as you say, " ... when they are going FRICKIN' BLIND !!" . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Posted March 25, 2013 The CBC stories report the U.S. health care system (and Spain's) as leaders in eradicating corneal blindness. Canada's doctors and health ministers are calling for measures to improve the 'dismal' state of provincial corneal transplant surgery system(s). Canada may end up having to import cut corneas from the U.S., as there is also a lack of donors on top of wasting tissues already provided. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 those increasing numbers of (millions of) Americans with vision loss/impairment... increases attributed to greater risks relative to the U.S. Obesity Epidemic and the U.S. Diabetes Epidemic: Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Posted March 26, 2013 Canada recognized the dismal corneal transplant system years ago, but little has been done to implement recommendations: Demographics of corneal transplantation in Canada in 2004... Recommendations include standardizing the criteria for acceptable donortissue across all eye banks in Canada to increase efficiency ofdistribution, introducing and properly implementing mandatory referraland request legislation to increase donor rates, and increasingavailability of operating room time for corneal transplant surgeons,especially in Ontario. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17224948 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 26, 2013 Report Posted March 26, 2013 annual vision loss/impairment cost to the U.S. economy, inclusive of diabetic complications associated with the U.S. Obesity/Diabetic Epidemics: Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Posted March 26, 2013 The Lion's Eye Bank of Manitoba and Northwest Ontario is getting pressure to spend money to import corneas and reduce the stupid long waits for transplant surgery. It's hard to believe that Manitobans wait and go blind over a measly $900,000 per year. http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Manitoba/ID/2352354389/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted March 26, 2013 Report Posted March 26, 2013 clearly millions of Americans are being forced to seek healthcare outside the U.S.... whether as a result of having no health insurance coverage, denied coverage, expensive costs, etc..increasingly, Americans are being forced to seek corneal transplantation surgery in such lower cost destinations as Mexico, Costa Rica, India, Jordan, Singapore, etc.. A booming brokerage industry exists packaging all inclusive options that include medical/travel/accommodation charges at a fraction of the expensive U.S. costs. . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Posted March 26, 2013 Sadly, one of the contributing factors to the shortage of donor tissues and organs is Canada's low donor rate: Canada's organ-donation rate among world's worstCanada consistently has one of the worst organ donor rates ofindustrialized countries: about 13 donors per million people, comparedwith 20 per million in the U.S., and more than 31 per million in Spain. In 2005, 1,905 organ transplants were performed in Canada, according to the Canadian Institute for Health Information. That same year, 275 Canadians died while on a waiting list of almost 4,000 potential recipients. http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=0600888f-3f4b-4b8a-ba4e-68009688da5d Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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