Shady Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I knew that Chavez was a pretty bad apple, but I had no idea just how insidious some of his actions actually were. What I find amazying, as does the writer, is that so many people "of the left" admire and defend this man. All under the guise of his help for the poor. It's simplely Orwellian. Some interesting facts regarding Mr. Chavez... * His closest allies were bloody-handed dictators: Ahmadinejad, Bashar al-Assad, Fidel Castro, and, formerly, Gaddafi. * His anti-Semitism over his 14-year rule drove two thirds of Venezuela’s Jewish community into exile. * He muzzled the media, shutting down television stations that were critical of him, and denied the opposition access to the state news networks. * He tolerated unions only if they were official, and he allowed strikes only if controlled by the regime. * He prosecuted, criminalized, and threw into prison independent trade unionists who, like Ruben Gonzalez, the representative of the Ferrominera mineworkers, refused to wait for Bolivarism to be fully realized before demanding decent working conditions, protection against mining accidents, and fair wages. * His the repression of the Yukpa Indians of the Sierra de Perija, carried out in the name of “cultural integration”; the targeted assassinations, covered up by the regime, of those of their chiefs like Sabino Romero in 2009. * He repealed family law provisions, one protecting women victims of domestic violence, and one protecting the rights of divorced women. * As for the good souls who remind us that Chávez’s national populism had “at least” the benefit of feeding the hungry, caring for the most vulnerable, and reducing poverty, they neglect to mention that these reforms were made possible only by budgetary recklessness, itself funded by colossal oil revenue inflated by the high price of crude. The result has been that the real economy of the country, the modernization of its infrastructure and equipment, and the formation of businesses capable of creating sustainable wealth were heedlessly sacrificed on the altar of a form of Caesarism designed more to buy social peace than to build the Venezuela of tomorrow. * Rather than take the trouble to expand domestic production, he imported 70 percent of the bread he distributed to the people, without ever wondering what might happen if the price of a barrel of crude, now about $110, were to fall back down to near $20, where it was the year he came to power. This is the policy of the ostrich or the cicada. Very simply it is a policy of mortgaging the future. * Increases in the minimal wage, today about $250 a month, have, over 14 years, been overtaken by inflation. Half of the active population still just scrapes by, often by doing odd jobs on the margin of the formal economy. As a result, it is not unlikely that this long decade of oil-supported socialism will show a net deficit for those segments of the population who were supposed to benefit most. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/12/bernard-henri-levy-on-the-idiotic-posthumous-cult-of-hugo-chavez.html It seems as though, as with other socialists, his so-called "good intentions" trump his means to achieve them, and the end results themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I knew that Chavez was a pretty bad apple, but I had no idea just how insidious some of his actions actually were. What I find amazying, as does the writer, is that so many people "of the left" admire and defend this man. All under the guise of his help for the poor. It's simplely Orwellian. Yeah he was pretty bad for doing the following: - reversing the U.S backed military coup. - brings the country out of debt. - drastically reduced the poverty rate by from 52% to 27% and extreme poverty from 49% to 9%. - grew the GDP by 87%. - reducing unemployment rate from 17% to 7% (created jobs at 3 times the rate of U.S). - access to education and healthcare has been greatly expanded for the poor. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Yeah he was pretty bad for doing the following: - reversing the U.S backed military coup. - brings the country out of debt. - drastically reduced the poverty rate by from 52% to 27% and extreme poverty from 49% to 9%. - grew the GDP by 87%. - reducing unemployment rate from 17% to 7% (created jobs at 3 times the rate of U.S). - access to education and healthcare has been greatly expanded for the poor. - You didn't read the facts. And anyone that thinks Venezuela has a lower unemployment rate than Canada does, it's worth discussion this with. You're part of the cult of King Hugo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Sounds like this Chavez character,during his posthumous career has really been a thorn in your side Shady. Just admit it that Chavez did a job that needed to be done in his country. More than likely,those that follow him will continue on the path that he started his country on and many other nations will follow his example. Even the US will start adopting more socialist reforms.It's only a matter of time. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) You didn't read the facts. And anyone that thinks Venezuela has a lower unemployment rate than Canada does, it's worth discussion this with. You're part of the cult of King Hugo. Who said I didn't read it? Beside it was your narrow minded interpretation that everything Hugo did was evil and bad. Mind you that nearly every world leaders have criticisms of their own. There are no 'perfect' leaders. By the way shady, do you know what a cult is? hmm? Edited March 16, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Sounds like this Chavez character,during his posthumous career has really been a thorn in your side Shady. Just admit it that Chavez did a job that needed to be done in his country. More than likely,those that follow him will continue on the path that he started his country on and many other nations will follow his example. Even the US will start adopting more socialist reforms.It's only a matter of time. WWWTT Oh, he certainly did a job on the country. Not for the good of the long term though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Not for the good of the long term though. I would say he did with the increased access to education, healthcare and the reduction in the poverty and unemployment rate. It'll help the country move forward into the future. Edited March 16, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Oh, he certainly did a job on the country. Not for the good of the long term though. Oh sorry Shady I forgot,only deep corporate profits and wildly high bonuses for CEO will bring a stronger future?!?!? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Oh sorry Shady I forgot,only deep corporate profits and wildly high bonuses for CEO will bring a stronger future?!?!? WWWTT False choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Seems to work for you and the right. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 False choice. I guess you don't know what a cult is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I guess you don't know what a cult is. I do. You and the previous poster are a perfect example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) I do. You and the previous poster are a perfect example. Cults are not people who disagree with you Edited March 17, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) According to data compiled by the UK Guardian, Chavez’s first decade in office saw Venezuelan GDP more than double and both infant mortality and unemployment almost halved. Then there is a remarkable graph from the World Bank that shows that under Chavez’s brand of socialism, poverty in Venezuela plummeted (the Guardian reports that its “extreme poverty” rate fell from 23.4 percent in 1999 to 8.5 percent just a decade later). In all, that left the country with the third lowest poverty rate in Latin America. Additionally, “college enrollment has more than doubled, millions of people have access to health care for the first time and the number of people eligible for public pensions has quadrupled.” Not bad as far as accomplishments. He has empowered the people to build a better nation. Investment in people is investment in the nation. I especially like that college enrollment has doubled. It takes time for a country that was broken for so many years due to the control of multinationals and puppet governments, to heal. Increase in education which is directly connected to people coming out of poverty, is a sign of a succeeding nation. It's an investment into the future of the country. An example of the process is the increase in education and how it makes more Venezuelan doctors becoming available, so that doctors from other countries would not be needed to be imported anymore. Edited March 17, 2013 by Hudson Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Oh and as usual, the anti-semite label against anyone who doesn't follow the agenda of the corporatists who deny being corporatists, but simply fight their battles by feeding on jargons that makes them feel emotional and like that they're fighting for a special belief. Using anti-semite has become meaningless due to the improper use of it. It's just a way to battle resistance and shut down criticism on a number of issues, including issues that have nothing to do with racism. About Chavez being anti-semite; Here is the head rabbi of Venezuela telling everyone about how much of a Jew hater and anti-semite Chavez was: The Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Venezuela, Isaac Cohen, on Wednesday night sent condolences to the family and friends of President Hugo Chavez, who died on Tuesday, saying, “This is pain for the family and for all the people of Venezuela.” Cohen had visited Chavez several times at the Miraflores presidential palace in Caracas. On Wednesday night he said, “We were always received with great respect, and our requests and statements were positively received by him.” Edited March 17, 2013 by Hudson Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) According to data compiled by the UK Guardian, Chavez’s first decade in office saw Venezuelan GDP more than double and both infant mortality and unemployment almost halved. Then there is a remarkable graph from the World Bank that shows that under Chavez’s brand of socialism, poverty in Venezuela plummeted (the Guardian reports that its “extreme poverty” rate fell from 23.4 percent in 1999 to 8.5 percent just a decade later). In all, that left the country with the third lowest poverty rate in Latin America. Additionally, “college enrollment has more than doubled, millions of people have access to health care for the first time and the number of people eligible for public pensions has quadrupled.” Careful, Shady will accused you of being part of the most horrifying cult on Earth like he did to me and WWTTT Edited March 17, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 So whos facts are true then? Hudson Jones 's research clearly shows some very positive contributions to the Venezuelan society.Even debunking a myth about jewish people. Whereas Shady provides a link that paints a different picture. A couple of facts I clearly know is true,is that Chavez won several fair and openly democratic elections. Also that over 9 million people attended his funeral!!! With so many paying their respect to Chavez,it is clear that what he did was for the good of his country! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 According to data compiled by the UK Guardian, Chavez’s first decade in office saw Venezuelan GDP more than double and both infant mortality and unemployment almost halved. Then there is a remarkable graph from the World Bank that shows that under Chavez’s brand of socialism, poverty in Venezuela plummeted (the Guardian reports that its “extreme poverty” rate fell from 23.4 percent in 1999 to 8.5 percent just a decade later). In all, that left the country with the third lowest poverty rate in Latin America. Additionally, “college enrollment has more than doubled, millions of people have access to health care for the first time and the number of people eligible for public pensions has quadrupled.” Not bad as far as accomplishments. He has empowered the people to build a better nation. Investment in people is investment in the nation. I especially like that college enrollment has doubled. It takes time for a country that was broken for so many years due to the control of multinationals and puppet governments, to heal. Increase in education which is directly connected to people coming out of poverty, is a sign of a succeeding nation. It's an investment into the future of the country. An example of the process is the increase in education and how it makes more Venezuelan doctors becoming available, so that doctors from other countries would not be needed to be imported anymore. You're not addressing any of the specifics. Yes, progress was made, but at a huge cost of budgetary recklessness, and without any notion of a real and sustainalbe economy. Regardless, his so-called good intentions aren't an excuse of human rights abuses, and the dictator-like manner in which he governed. It's a false choice to suggest one has to choose between multi-national corporations and puppet governments, or with Hugo Chavez. There's a middle ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) So whos facts are true then? Hudson Jones 's research clearly shows some very positive contributions to the Venezuelan society.Even debunking a myth about jewish people. Whereas Shady provides a link that paints a different picture. A couple of facts I clearly know is true,is that Chavez won several fair and openly democratic elections. Also that over 9 million people attended his funeral!!! With so many paying their respect to Chavez,it is clear that what he did was for the good of his country! WWWTT Wow, 9 million attended his funeral. So what? Saddam Hussein receieved 99% of the vote during his so-called elections. Big deal. And many more than 9 million attended Kim Jong Il's funeral. Edited March 17, 2013 by Shady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I don't recal hearing about international election officers giving Iraq(Saddam) elections fan fare reviews??? I don't recall hearing about a funeral that had more than 9 million people in Korea??? I would think that if someone came out to a funeral,that person cares. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the largest funeral attendance in the world history as "so what"! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Slow day for the 'Cult of Bashing Obama'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Slow day for the 'Cult of Bashing Obama'? Ad hominem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Ad hominem. Ad hominem isn't necessary a bad thing you know. Edited March 17, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ad hominem isn't necessary a bad thing you know. His point completely neglects the subject of the discussion. In the same way it would if I were to ask him, shouldn't he be busy trying to blame Mitt Romney for something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 His point completely neglects the subject of the discussion. In the same way it would if I were to ask him, shouldn't he be busy trying to blame Mitt Romney for something? Romney faded into the background, Romney is no longer relevant. No need to bash him anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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