DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 So...do you take Genesis as how it all really started? The Earth formed before the stars, etc? Or even more extreme...do you believe it happened in 6 days some 6-7,000 years ago? This I need to know from you so as not to needlessly harp on things like dinosaurs and charnia, etc. Do you accept science's version of our Solar System's birth and early life? Continental drift...dinosaurs...early humanoids, etc etc?? Is God a watchmaker to you? Wind-up the Universe...evolution and all...and let 'er go? Can you explain your religion's version of Genesis in detail?* * Your words and understanding, if you could, please. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=22400&p=886442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=22400&p=886442That I speak positively about Intelligent Design should be answer enough. Here, let me give you the same answer I'd given to another recently: Perhaps that's why God probably gave us the very, very shortened version of creation in Genesis - to spare us all the boring nitty-gritty details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) That I speak positively about Intelligent Design should be answer enough. Here, let me give you the same answer I'd given to another recently: Perhaps that's why God probably gave us the very, very shortened version of creation in Genesis - to spare us all the boring nitty-gritty details. Did God do that? Where does it say a day is not a day? As well...I'm curious to know if you truly believe Earth was made by God before stars. Not to mention, how did our Pop I metal rich star end up being made before Pop II and Pop III stars? Edited March 10, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Did God do that? Where does it say a day is not a day? He was using metaphorical language to not confuse the old timey folks. How was God to know that new timey folks would take him literally? Mabye that's why He's not talking to people and giving them books to guide them anymore. Oh, wait, he did, 1300 years ago he talked to Mohammed and got him to write it all down. Guess God had given up on Christians by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Did God do that? Where does it say a day is not a day?If you want to know, then make the effort to read the Bible. It's there. Otherwise you're being dawkins - who mocks and criticize what he doesn't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 He was using metaphorical language to not confuse the old timey folks. How was God to know that new timey folks would take him literally? Mabye that's why He's not talking to people and giving them books to guide them anymore. Oh, wait, he did, 1300 years ago he talked to Mohammed and got him to write it all down. Guess God had given up on Christians by then. Noah apparently lived for hundreds of years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) If you want to know, then make the effort to read the Bible. It's there. Otherwise you're being dawkins - who mocks and criticize what he doesn't understand. If you are incapable of answering, just say so. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. If the ideas get too big and bad you can always refer me to the Bible, eh? I think YOU don't actually believe all that creation BS, either. Edited March 10, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) If you are incapable of answering, just say so. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. If the ideas get to big and bad you can always refer me to the Bible, eh? I think YOU don't actually believe all that creation BS, either. Anyway, see you around DOP. Edited March 10, 2013 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Not in church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Anyway, see you around DOP. A standard "win" in betsy's mind; don't answer a question, run away, instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 A standard "win" in betsy's mind; don't answer a question, run away, instead. Unfortunately not for long, then we all play the silly game again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) If you want to know, then make the effort to read the Bible. It's there. Otherwise you're being dawkins - *****(who mocks and criticize what he doesn't understand*****. Oh Betsy, Betsy, Betsy. Edited March 11, 2013 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 If you want to know, then make the effort to read the Bible. It's there. That doesn't answer his question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 What's wrong with YHWH anyway? 6 days to make the universe? STVJBS could do it in about an hour with a 3D printer. And PnnTllr could do it just by snapping their fingers. (I know, I know, no fair, there's two of them.) But seriously, why did it take God any time at all to create the universe? You'd think he'd just make it so in an instant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 That doesn't answer his question. Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. ---Ned Flanders http://toponday.com/mr-flanders-and-science/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) What's wrong with YHWH anyway? 6 days to make the universe? STVJBS could do it in about an hour with a 3D printer. And PnnTllr could do it just by snapping their fingers. (I know, I know, no fair, there's two of them.) But seriously, why did it take God any time at all to create the universe? You'd think he'd just make it so in an instant. William Craig claims that objects just popping into being is 'magic'. Apparently, he hasn't had any association with quantum physics. Hawking radiation, for example, produces, by 'magic', particles and anti-particles half of which radiates away and the other half goes down the black hole...more or less. He also presumes the Universe needs a 'cause' and uses some 'logic' mumbo jumbo regarding "timeless, spaceless and changless" yick yack to 'prove' this. Much less amusing than Wendy Wright vs Dawkins, by far. In that, she had Dawkins sending crippled children to be euthanized. Edited March 11, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. ---Ned Flanders Wow so true! Never thought of it that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Also to mention that new species are being found all the time. Some are defying classification. Some of these species are older than many on the planet, even much older than the 'flood'. And yet two of EVERYTHING was on the ark. However we could have an ark, but a technological one like presented in that flick Titan A.E. But even if we entertain that idea and that it all came from a space ark, who built the ark for earth? how did they manage to get and store the DNA of every living creature on the planet? God just might be aliens with the power of terraforming worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 William Craig claims that objects just popping into being is 'magic'. Apparently, he hasn't had any association with quantum physics. Hawking radiation, for example, produces, by 'magic', particles and anti-particles half of which radiates away and the other half goes down the black hole...more or less. He also presumes the Universe needs a 'cause' and uses some 'logic' mumbo jumbo regarding "timeless, spaceless and changless" yick yack to 'prove' this. Much less amusing than Wendy Wright vs Dawkins, by far. In that, she had Dawkins sending crippled children to be euthanized. The easy rebuttal to the universe needing a cause is what caused the cause? But let's say there is some eternal causitive force that gives rise to the big bang - it it doesn't require an intelligence, and if there is some intelligence to it (ie the coherence of natural forces) it's a very removed intelligence. No guy in the sky, no son to take on human form, etc. Just an "intelligence" that makes the universe work. Not much to pray to, no heaven to go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 The easy rebuttal to the universe needing a cause is what caused the cause? But let's say there is some eternal causitive force that gives rise to the big bang - it it doesn't require an intelligence, and if there is some intelligence to it (ie the coherence of natural forces) it's a very removed intelligence. No guy in the sky, no son to take on human form, etc. Just an "intelligence" that makes the universe work. Not much to pray to, no heaven to go to. Religion...all religion including myths and such...had the advantage of being first on the scene before science started giving real answers to the questions of the Universe. Sits deep in the lizard portion of the brain...lol. Plus, the lure of an eternal life certainly helps. Hell and damnation...certainly an useful foil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Religion...all religion including myths and such...had the advantage of being first on the scene before science started giving real answers to the questions of the Universe. Sits deep in the lizard portion of the brain...lol. Plus, the lure of an eternal life certainly helps. Hell and damnation...certainly an useful foil.Think I'll throw on a lecture of Neil DeGrasse Tyson to ease my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Wow so true! Never thought of it that way The Simpsons could be a religion. As well as consulting the other holy books of Family Guy, American Dad, etc. Think I'll throw on a lecture of Neil DeGrasse Tyson to ease my mind. Dr Craig is a good enough fellow, but he's literally an unmovable force. He baffles folks with a lot of 'logical' runaround that would have the uncritical listener nod in enthusiastic agreement. But, really all it boils down to is having faith that religion...his particular version of it, that is...is correct and science is ultimately got it wrong. No matter the pesky rhamphorhynchus fossil...etc. One of my favs...Charnia. Neither plant nor animal. Extinct since the Ediacaran period...slightly Pre-Cambrian on the time scale chart. Edited March 11, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Religion...all religion including myths and such...had the advantage of being first on the scene before science started giving real answers to the questions of the Universe. Sits deep in the lizard portion of the brain...lol. Plus, the lure of an eternal life certainly helps. Hell and damnation...certainly an useful foil.That's it in a nutshell. We crave answers and so gods were invented (and reinvented and reinvented) to fill in the gaps. Those that spoke on behalf of the gods wielded power...and power was good. Despite incredible levels of scientific ignorance the average person now has better, evidence and observation based answers. That's why religiosity is in decline. The number of people who claim to be atheist/agnostic or have 'no belief' are continuously rising; but, the reduction in commitment among believers is even more impressive. Less than 20% of Americans attend church services and a large amount of the belief that people claim to have has eroded down to essentially deism. Traditional religion is like the VCR blinking '12:00'. It met a need for quite some time, but we now have something better and those that still use one are fewer and older. Edit: Forgot to include my link - "Clearly, a disconnect between what Americans say and what they actually do has created a sense of a resilient church culture when, in fact, it may not exist." http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html Edited March 12, 2013 by Mighty AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think there's more to it than you guys are willing to acknowledge. People, most of us, seek a sense of oneness, have a sense of a deeper connection with the world than just thru their senses analysed by logic. Many people will have this sense with nature or music or love or what have you. Spirituality, the deeper part of religion addresses this, or tries to anyway. And many people are open to this without having to deny science or somebody else's beliefs. The problem is when the religions that arise from this spirituality try to move beyond it to being a political or power system, or a pacifier for people who can't handle the unknown and unstateable and then try to lay that on everybody else. But the materialist crowd does the same at times, by denying this deeper connection. Because it is like Coyote walking out over the cliff. Can be scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think there's more to it than you guys are willing to acknowledge. People, most of us, seek a sense of oneness, have a sense of a deeper connection with the world than just thru their senses analysed by logic. Many people will have this sense with nature or music or love or what have you. Spirituality, the deeper part of religion addresses this, or tries to anyway. And many people are open to this without having to deny science or somebody else's beliefs. The problem is when the religions that arise from this spirituality try to move beyond it to being a political or power system, or a pacifier for people who can't handle the unknown and unstateable and then try to lay that on everybody else. But the materialist crowd does the same at times, by denying this deeper connection. Because it is like Coyote walking out over the cliff. Can be scary. Most folks that claim 'spirituality' do not know an SO from an SBb. So I do wonder how good a grip on reality* they actually have. * the real world...not like they're crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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