Goodbye Tom Flanagan! :)

[Argus]

Instead of setting up hypothetical strawmen - er - scenarios, why don't you research it and tell us?

I assume that's covered in legal definition of child porn, and in sentencing.

There is absolutely nothing hypothetical about what I posted. Those are specifically illegal under Canada's child porn laws and people have gone to jail because of them.

[Argus]

It is. No to the first one, if you don't distribute it. Not sure about the second, depends how it's distributed, i would guess. Definitely yes to the third - kids have been charged for sending pics of themselves, I believe.

Pedophiles that use materials that involved the harming of children should be imprisoned.

And what about where the materials don't involve pedophiles or the harming of children, as in someone looking at pictures of naked teenagers taken and sent by those teenagers? That's still child porn, you know.

[jacee]

And what about where the materials don't involve pedophiles or the harming of children, as in someone looking at pictures of naked teenagers taken and sent by those teenagers? That's still child porn, you know.

Who's in jail for that?

[Argus]

Who's in jail for that?

I don't follow things that closely. I recall, though, that that Bishop caught with 'child porn' at the airport out east and stripped of his robes (no pun intended) had pictures of teenage boys on his laptop. Not sure if he's come to trial yet.

[g_bambino]

I don't follow things that closely.

I don't know if this is the case that immediately came to mind, but a 17 year old was arrested for possession of child pornography: naked pictures of his own 14 year old girlfriend that she'd texted to him.

A Norwalk teenager charged with possession of child pornography after his 14-year-old Greenwich girlfriend "sexted" him nude photos to his cell phone, was granted special probation after spending the last three months in jail.

Norwalk teen granted probation in 'sexting' case

[shortlived]

I don't know if this is the case that immediately came to mind, but a 17 year old was arrested for possession of child pornography: naked pictures of his own 14 year old girlfriend that she'd texted to him.

Hey atleast she wasn't 5 years younger than him, just think if he was 19 he would have contracted a psychiatric illness.

as opposed to breaking social taboo.

Edited March 3, 2013 by shortlived

[jacee]

The girl told police that she felt forced to send the pictures, because if she did not she believed the boy would break up with her, the youth's four-page arrest affidavit said. There are no allegations that the youth inappropriately touched the girl when they dated.

The girl also said that the Norwalk youth wanted more pictures and even threatened to send the pictures to the place where the two met while working together over the summer.

Guess he won't do that again!

[jacee]

I don't follow things that closely. I recall, though, that that Bishop caught with 'child porn' at the airport out east and stripped of his robes (no pun intended) had pictures of teenage boys on his laptop. Not sure if he's come to trial yet.

Ya, I hope he's still in jail.

The court heard Mr. Lahey's collection included pornographic photos ...

They are graphic in the extreme, Crown attorney David Elhadad said of Mr. Lahey's collection of child porn.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-bishop-in-child-porn-case-tells-court-hes-truly-sorry/article1357467/?service=mobile

For all your catastrophizing, I think the laws are working well.

And so is the censure of civil society.

GOODBYE TOM FLANAGAN!

.

Edited March 4, 2013 by jacee

[Argus]

Ya, I hope he's still in jail.

The court heard Mr. Lahey's collection included pornographic photos ...

They are graphic in the extreme, Crown attorney David Elhadad said of Mr. Lahey's collection of child porn.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-bishop-in-child-porn-case-tells-court-hes-truly-sorry/article1357467/?service=mobile

For all your catastrophizing, I think the laws are working well.

And so is the censure of civil society.

GOODBYE TOM FLANAGAN!

.

As i recall, he had something like 20,000 pornographic images on his machine, of which a few hundred, it was decided, were of teenagers below the age of eighteen. There was no suggestion he had ever actually been sexually involved with any of them. He sounds, basically, like a gay man. I see no reason whatever why we should be paying large sums of cash to put a 71 year old ex-bishop in prison.

[jacee]

As i recall, he had something like 20,000 pornographic images on his machine, of which a few hundred, it was decided, were of teenagers below the age of eighteen. There was no suggestion he had ever actually been sexually involved with any of them. He sounds, basically, like a gay man. I see no reason whatever why we should be paying large sums of cash to put a 71 year old ex-bishop in prison.

I do.

Read it again: "young boys"

So ... are you going to stand at a podium and declare support for the child porn industry publicly like Tom Flanagan did?

Edited March 4, 2013 by jacee

[Big Guy]

Some thoughts on gay, straight and the
problem of pedophilia:






Children are sexually assaulted by two
major groups of deviants:






Child Molesters – these are people
who prefer adults but are willing to sexually assault children.
These are the vast majority of offenders and the crime is as much one
of power and control as it is of a sexual nature. There are no
definite figures on the number of these molesters in Canada but the
assumption is that it is in the hundreds of thousands. While the
recidivism rate is fairly high, many find outlets in adult
relationships.






Pedophiles – are simply born with
sexual desire for children. Canada had roughly 40,000 pedophiles who
have been convicted over a 20-year period. Convictions can be
difficult to obtain so one can only surmise the actual total,
including those that have not been convicted and those who are able
to control their desires and are not active. About 4,000 are
currently considered high-risk offenders who are expected to offend
again.






Every year about 5,000 children 6 to 13
are victims of sexual assault and most abusers arer relatives. These
figures only indicate the number that are reported and investigated.






Some pedophiles learn to live with
their compulsion without acting on it but others can’t and don’t.
Their psychological and physical attraction to children is the same
kind of attraction that others have to the opposite sex and the same
sex - and is just as strong.






In heterosexuals this attraction is
considered normal, in homosexuals it has become accepted by the
majority and in pedophiles this is considered aberrant and dangerous.
There is no way that a child could be considered consensual in
sexual relationships so that any facilitation of pedophiles sexual
needs is not only disgusting but also illegal.






If that strong pedophile sexual
attraction is indeed in the manner described then perhaps it is time
to approach this problem from another perspective.






The genetic materials that we pass on
in each generation are still a mystery to us. Only recently have we
been able to unravel DNA and the markers that are specific to each
individual on earth. Already in studies, there are many researchers
who now feel that homosexuality may be a physiological predisposition
that can be triggered through environmental stimulus. Approximately
5 to 7% of our population is gay.






What if many of us really do carry some
combination of genetic materials that could be triggered during
puberty making us attracted to the other or the same sex? This
environmental trigger does exist because studies have indicted a
similarity of parental and living conditions for people who are gay.






Before I am inundated by angry
responses – I am NOT equating pedophilia with homosexuality or
heterosexuality. I am stating that research indicates that the
“feeling of attraction” for the target group is just as strong in
all three groups.






What then if the specific genetic
combination for predisposition to pedophilia is also present in a
large proportion of the population? What then if it can also
triggered by some environmental or living condition? It has been
proven that very many of those who are molesters, themselves become
molesters. Could this then explain the phenomena?






As to how to deal with this growing
problem? We could apply the “vampire” solution:






A vampire needs human blood to survive.
To get human blood he must maim or kill other humans thereby making
them vampires. Therefore, the only solution is to kill off all
vampires.






With 40,000 convicted pedophiles in
Canada, that would be a lot of executions. That would also not
include any of the pedophiles that have been able to control their
desires and needs but who may, in the future, succumb to temptation
and attack.






What then if through advances in
technology we were able to isolate the genetic combination that makes
one predisposed to pedophilia? Would this be grounds for instant
abortion of the predisposed fetus? Would any children having this
specific combination be segregated and sent to special
“indoctrination” classes so that predisposition not be triggered?






Perhaps the future will give us more
solutions than the questionably effective physical or chemical
castrations. Mandatory lobotomies may provide another solution but
have a tendency to result in “zombies” who are very expensive to
maintain.






Until those new technologies give us
more options, I am afraid that we will have to continue to jail those
pedophiles that offend and keep a very, very close eye on our
children. They must be given the tools very early in life to protect
themselves from those ever-present out-of-control predators who are
unable to control their actions and attack the weakest in our
society.






Do you know where your kids are?

[Michael Hardner]

Your post is not rooted in reality. You propose (somehow) implementing capital punishment for those convicted of this crime in the past, and then conclude by saying 'until new technologies give us options' we have to continue jailing them.

[shortlived]

As i recall, he had something like 20,000 pornographic images on his machine, of which a few hundred, it was decided, were of teenagers below the age of eighteen. There was no suggestion he had ever actually been sexually involved with any of them. He sounds, basically, like a gay man. I see no reason whatever why we should be paying large sums of cash to put a 71 year old ex-bishop in prison.

Maybe he was just assembling a list of people to save, you know get a good look so he can recognize them if he spots them somewhere, so he knows to get into salvation delivery mode. Or he felt he had failed and so saved them. Cause preists are always accepting of people who really are without all the makeup and style, always out there to save people and protect them from abuse.

Sorry.

Edited March 8, 2013 by shortlived

[shortlived]

Some thoughts on gay, straight and the

problem of pedophilia:

Children are sexually assaulted by two

major groups of deviants:

Child Molesters – these are people

who prefer adults but are willing to sexually assault children.

These are the vast majority of offenders and the crime is as much one

of power and control as it is of a sexual nature. There are no

definite figures on the number of these molesters in Canada but the

assumption is that it is in the hundreds of thousands. While the

recidivism rate is fairly high, many find outlets in adult

relationships.

Pedophiles – are simply born with

sexual desire for children. Canada had roughly 40,000 pedophiles who

have been convicted over a 20-year period. Convictions can be

difficult to obtain so one can only surmise the actual total,

including those that have not been convicted and those who are able

to control their desires and are not active. About 4,000 are

currently considered high-risk offenders who are expected to offend

again.

Every year about 5,000 children 6 to 13

are victims of sexual assault and most abusers arer relatives. These

figures only indicate the number that are reported and investigated.

Some pedophiles learn to live with

their compulsion without acting on it but others can’t and don’t.

Their psychological and physical attraction to children is the same

kind of attraction that others have to the opposite sex and the same

sex - and is just as strong.

In heterosexuals this attraction is

considered normal, in homosexuals it has become accepted by the

majority and in pedophiles this is considered aberrant and dangerous.

There is no way that a child could be considered consensual in

sexual relationships so that any facilitation of pedophiles sexual

needs is not only disgusting but also illegal.

If that strong pedophile sexual

attraction is indeed in the manner described then perhaps it is time

to approach this problem from another perspective.

The genetic materials that we pass on

in each generation are still a mystery to us. Only recently have we

been able to unravel DNA and the markers that are specific to each

individual on earth. Already in studies, there are many researchers

who now feel that homosexuality may be a physiological predisposition

that can be triggered through environmental stimulus. Approximately

5 to 7% of our population is gay.

What if many of us really do carry some

combination of genetic materials that could be triggered during

puberty making us attracted to the other or the same sex? This

environmental trigger does exist because studies have indicted a

similarity of parental and living conditions for people who are gay.

Before I am inundated by angry

responses – I am NOT equating pedophilia with homosexuality or

heterosexuality. I am stating that research indicates that the

“feeling of attraction” for the target group is just as strong in

all three groups.

What then if the specific genetic

combination for predisposition to pedophilia is also present in a

large proportion of the population? What then if it can also

triggered by some environmental or living condition? It has been

proven that very many of those who are molesters, themselves become

molesters. Could this then explain the phenomena?

As to how to deal with this growing

problem? We could apply the “vampire” solution:

A vampire needs human blood to survive.

To get human blood he must maim or kill other humans thereby making

them vampires. Therefore, the only solution is to kill off all

vampires.

With 40,000 convicted pedophiles in

Canada, that would be a lot of executions. That would also not

include any of the pedophiles that have been able to control their

desires and needs but who may, in the future, succumb to temptation

and attack.

What then if through advances in

technology we were able to isolate the genetic combination that makes

one predisposed to pedophilia? Would this be grounds for instant

abortion of the predisposed fetus? Would any children having this

specific combination be segregated and sent to special

“indoctrination” classes so that predisposition not be triggered?

Perhaps the future will give us more

solutions than the questionably effective physical or chemical

castrations. Mandatory lobotomies may provide another solution but

have a tendency to result in “zombies” who are very expensive to

maintain.

Until those new technologies give us

more options, I am afraid that we will have to continue to jail those

pedophiles that offend and keep a very, very close eye on our

children. They must be given the tools very early in life to protect

themselves from those ever-present out-of-control predators who are

unable to control their actions and attack the weakest in our

society.

Do you know where your kids are?

I don't believe this bs it is all paraphilia. People can fk pussy if they get around to it. Same goes for but and small stuff. Its all just fancy. Tons of lamers out there (no offence to people I know) will settle for polyurethane and those synthoskins. Its just pervsion man, gay and pedo illnesses are just made up.

Its just preference. People just need to learn to like it. Its like having sex with a fat woman and not liking fat women. Lots of people end up with "less than optimal mates"

Thats what bags and porn are for in the first place.

You can look to nature and figure out that this is all just culture or a non specific sexual lust that is behaviourally programmed.

It is just feeble mindedness and preference, even macaques seem to molest children..

http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=887

Edited March 4, 2013 by shortlived

[left_alberta]

This has been some good discussion on l'affaire Flanagan. Best that I've seen on the internet, in fact.

I do find it interesting that, in the last fifteen years, two Alberta conservative bigwigs, Stockwell Day and Tom Flanagan, have been brought down by the child pornography issue. What's especially odd is that they were saying pretty much the polar opposite thing from each other.

[PIK]

I do.

Read it again: "young boys"

So ... are you going to stand at a podium and declare support for the child porn industry publicly like Tom Flanagan did?

Now you are really ging over board on this one. How many people have pics of thier kids, are they now criminals.

[Argus]

I do.

Read it again: "young boys"

So ... are you going to stand at a podium and declare support for the child porn industry publicly like Tom Flanagan did?

Young boys as in teenagers.

And you do because your position arises out of mindless, hysterical hate, not thought.

As for Flanagan, your hysteria is making you libel the man, as he never did any such thing.

[BubberMiley]

Mobs sure can be scary things.

[jacee]

Young boys as in teenagers.

And you know that how?

Do you have access to the bishop's laptop?

The article says "young boys". Did you read it?

And you do because your position arises out of mindless, hysterical hate, not thought.

As for Flanagan, your hysteria is making you libel the man, as he never did any such thing.

Unh ... yes he did defend viewers of child porn ... you know, the customers without whom there would be no industry.

So why do you defend the child porn industry so hysterically?

You do comprehend the concept of 'age of consent'?

Edited March 8, 2013 by jacee

[Argus]

And you know that how?

Do you have access to the bishop's laptop?

The article says "young boys". Did you read it?

I read of accounts. Basically, almost all the pictures were adults, but there were some which were underage. The psychiatric report said he had a thing for young men but was not a pedophile. He wasn't interested in children.

Unh ... yes he did defend viewers of child porn ... you know, the customers without whom there would be no industry.

There IS no 'industry'. And the viewers are not 'customers' since they don't pay anything.

So why do you defend the child porn industry so hysterically?

You do comprehend the concept of 'age of consent'?

If you check back you'll find me arguing in favor of raising the age of consent when it came up. As for hysterical, that's you, sweety. I'm just using cold logic. You're the one gnashing your teeth, pulling out your hair, and running around screaming "Witch! Witch! Burn the witch!"

[Hudson Jones]

Now he is ready for Harper to make him a senator.