Guest American Woman Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 What about the new tech. of finding the truth if the woman is/was lying. A lie detector test, even talking to the woman can reveal if she's lying or not. No, it cannot. There's a reason why the results of lie detector tests aren't allowed in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Interesting point though, about beating the charge. I did assume with my question that the report would result in a guilty verdict. Assuming guilty verdict... my first instinct was to say I would rather be accused of rape since I can't fathom what it would be like but I can imagine the nightmare of being raped. Then I thought about going to jail for any period of time and that would seem like a pretty bad nightmare too. Especially for a crime I did not do. As to which I would *prefer*... it all depends on the severity of the sentence and the severity of the rape. On the extreme case of both, I would rather do 10-15 years for a rape I did not do vs. being held captive and brutalized for days (or months) on end. After all, I would know that I'm not going to die, I would have a good idea of when my nightmare will be over and I would have my basic needs taken care of. On the low end of each scenario, for example an Assange-type of rape vs. a few months in jail, I would take the rape. So I guess the short answer is... it's all relative. Edited January 28, 2013 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Since a women can't rape a man, I have to say being raped is worse. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/15/world/africa/zimbabwe-sperm/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 "Police in Zimbabwe on Friday charged three women found in possession of 33 condoms containing semen with 17 counts of aggravated indecent assault in a case that may be a break in a string of sex attacks over the past two years by women targeting male hitchhikers." So yes, women are capable of raping men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Unless the rape resulted in severe permanent physical injury/disability/mutilation, I'd much rather take the rape than 10+ years in prison. A false accusation of rape can ruin someone's life as much (if not moreso) than a rape can, and the punishment for such a false accusation should be just as severe. And, just as there is a registry for sex offenders, there should be a registry for false rape accusers, so potential victims can steer clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Is that a reason to treat it more lightly? Looking at both scenarios, in one instance an innocent man, purposely accused, may be convicted. If women are hesitant to report rape because of this, potentially, more rapists would remain on the streets. Should that be a factor? Seems to me there's no easy answer where one or the other isn't unfairly affected. The punishment for false accusation of rape should obviously be for purposefully doing so, not for doing so by accident, such as in a case of mistaken identity on a police lineup or whatever. And while a man may be found not guilty of rape in a particular case because there is not sufficient evidence to convict him, that doesn't necessarily mean the woman would be charged with or convicted for false accusation, since there may not be evidence for that either. A woman who was, in fact, raped, should have no fear of reporting that to the police nor reason to fear punishment. But it might indeed deter some of the women who consensually sleep with a guy and later regret it for whatever reason filing rape allegations, and that is nothing but a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Yeah, because it's all women's fault for being raped, not reporting rape, falsely reporting rape etc etc.... But anyway, I heard last week on CBC radio a story about a kid who was living with his mother and step-dad who made false allegations against his step-dad (under duress from his biological father). Sad story, but sometimes people do terrible things. Apparently the step-dad got out after doing his full 8 year sentence despite the step-son admitting that the accusations were false about 2 years or so into the sentence. Getting raped is worse than being falsely accused of rape but raping someone (i.e. being the perpetrator) is better than both since one's odds of getting away with it are so high (something like 98%). I don't think false accusation syndrome is anywhere near being one of the reasons for getting away with it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) This is why when a person accuses someone of rape we have KGB statements to try and convince someone not to falsely accuse someone. And ther is a record of people who get convicted of making false KGB statements, it's called a criminal record. Edited January 28, 2013 by blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 The punishment for false accusation of rape should obviously be for purposefully doing so, not for doing so by accident, such as in a case of mistaken identity on a police lineup or whatever. And while a man may be found not guilty of rape in a particular case because there is not sufficient evidence to convict him, that doesn't necessarily mean the woman would be charged with or convicted for false accusation, since there may not be evidence for that either. A woman who was, in fact, raped, should have no fear of reporting that to the police nor reason to fear punishment. I realize that punishment should obviously be for purposely doing so, but what if a falsely identified man feels as if prejudice played into his being picked out of a line-up, for example; or if I woman fears that the person they pick could have that reaction? What if that is the reaction - should such an accusation automatically be dismissed? Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of date rape, which I didn't really get into. A woman may be less likely to report a date rape if she fears she could be charged with falsely accusing the alleged rapist. But it might indeed deter some of the women who consensually sleep with a guy and later regret it for whatever reason filing rape allegations, and that is nothing but a good thing. That would be a good thing, but if it prevents some women from reporting rape, that's not a good thing, which was my only point. I have to wonder just how many women do sleep with a guy and then cry rape because they later regretted it, though; I would think that such accusations constitute a very small percentage of rape charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I realize that punishment should obviously be for purposely doing so, but what if a falsely identified man feels as if prejudice played into his being picked out of a line-up, for example; or if I woman fears that the person they pick could have that reaction? What if that is the reaction - should such an accusation automatically be dismissed?Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of date rape, which I didn't really get into. A woman may be less likely to report a date rape if she fears she could be charged with falsely accusing the alleged rapist. Something that unfairly ruins a man's life is just as bad as something that unfairly ruin's a woman's life. The justice system should be about just that: justice. If someone commits an act that ruins (or has the potential to ruin) someone else's life, they should be punished accordingly. This should be independent of any impact this may or may not have on the reporting rates for other crimes by other people. So frankly I don't see the relevance of that concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Something that unfairly ruins a man's life is just as bad as something that unfairly ruin's a woman's life. I agree. I've already acknowledged that. The justice system should be about just that: justice. If someone commits an act that ruins (or has the potential to ruin) someone else's life, they should be punished accordingly. I couldn't agree more. This should be independent of any impact this may or may not have on the reporting rates for other crimes by other people. So frankly I don't see the relevance of that concern. It is a concern. If a man who commits date rape can intimidate the woman, keep her from pressing charges by threatening to accuse her of falsely accusing him, if she's afraid that she could end up being charged, that is a concern. I think it's terrible when women falsely cry rape and have clearly said as much - but bcsapper has raised questions regarding this issue, and I do believe this is a legitimate concern. When/if a man is found innocent of rape charges, say for lack of evidence, can he then turn around and accuse the woman of falsely accusing him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Since there are some here implying equivalency of rape and rape-accusations, I'm thinking once again that this board is too much of a sausagefest to have an informed, sensible discussion on issues that primarily affect women! Maybe if there was more female participation on these forums, there would be a lot more sensible discussion on these and all sorts of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I agree. I've already acknowledged that. I couldn't agree more. It is a concern. If a man who commits date rape can intimidate the woman, keep her from pressing charges by threatening to accuse her of falsely accusing him, if she's afraid that she could end up being charged, that is a concern. I think it's terrible when women falsely cry rape and have clearly said as much - but bcsapper has raised questions regarding this issue, and I do believe this is a legitimate concern. When/if a man is found innocent of rape charges, say for lack of evidence, can he then turn around and accuse the woman of falsely accusing him? Yes it's called public mischief and is clearly stated in the criminal code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Rape, or falsely accusing someone of rape? http://www.telegraph...er-husband.html Both violate multiple Ten Commandments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Since there are some here implying equivalency of rape and rape-accusations, I'm thinking once again that this board is too much of a sausagefest to have an informed, sensible discussion on issues that primarily affect women! AW and BC_chick seem to have had no problem contributing constructively to this thread, unlike yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 AW and BC_chick seem to have had no problem contributing constructively to this thread, unlike yourself. And how many clowns like you are making a phony equivalency between rape and being accused of rape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) And how many clowns like you are making a phony equivalency between rape and being accused of rape? And how many clowns like you are downplaying the devastation that can come from being imprisoned for a crime you didn't commit, and at the same time losing your job, family and friends. Oh, just you. Edited January 30, 2013 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 And how many clowns like you are downplaying the devastation that can come from being imprisoned for a crime you didn't commit, and at the same time losing your job, family and friends. Oh, just you. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, being imprisoned for a crime you did not commit would be a nightmare... but to be fair, you really are comparing apples and oranges. Thousands of women are raped every day throughout the world (those are just the reported figures too) but the figures for the false accusations are nowhere even close to fraction of that. It takes a sick individual to rape and a sick individual to falsely accuse others of rape but the difference is that the rapist can rape hundreds of women whereas the woman can't keep the crime going. Just that fact alone makes the stats very disproportionate. I agree that on a personal level the repercussions would be somewhat similar, but WIP makes a great point about trying to compare the two together. It is somewhat distasteful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 As I mentioned earlier on this thread, being imprisoned for a crime you did not commit would be a nightmare... but to be fair, you really are comparing apples and oranges. Thousands of women are raped every day throughout the world (those are just the reported figures too) but the figures for the false accusations are nowhere even close to fraction of that. It takes a sick individual to rape and a sick individual to falsely accuse others of rape but the difference is that the rapist can rape hundreds of women whereas the woman can't keep the crime going. Just that fact alone makes the stats very disproportionate. I agree that on a personal level the repercussions would be somewhat similar, but WIP makes a great point about trying to compare the two together. It is somewhat distasteful. If, on a personal level the repercussions would be similar, how is comparing them distasteful? Or Apples and Oranges? The numbers are not relevant to the crime. I'm only concerned about the personal details. The crime of rape is universally recognised as reprehensible. The crime of falsely accusing someone of rape is also reprehensible. It's just not recognised as such, based on the news I have read about what the courts hand down for it. WIP's point is deliberately disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 And how many clowns like you are downplaying the devastation that can come from being imprisoned for a crime you didn't commit, and at the same time losing your job, family and friends. Oh, just you. Does the devastation of being imprisoned compare to having to endure rape? Unless you get raped in prison NO! Does losing your job, family and friends compare? Can't you figure out which is worse? If you can't, go buy a clue! I'd like to know why you consider these crimes equivalent? Is murder and being accused of murder also equivalent in your world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Since I, like most men, have never had to experience rape, I don't have a testimonial or personal story to tell on the subject; but there are others who do. This would be a good place to start if you want to educate yourself a little on the subject: Dancing In The Darkness: Survivor's stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Does the devastation of being imprisoned compare to having to endure rape? Unless you get raped in prison NO! Does losing your job, family and friends compare? Can't you figure out which is worse? If you can't, go buy a clue! I'd like to know why you consider these crimes equivalent? Is murder and being accused of murder also equivalent in your world? Okay, now I see the problem, disagreement at the most basic level. The answer to your first question for me would be, yes, absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think there's a problem in asking if "being accused" rather than "being convicted" is ""worse than" rather than "just as bad as" being raped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I guess. We should just ask questions that are nice. Who do you fancy for the Superbowl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I guess. We should just ask questions that are nice. Who do you fancy for the Superbowl? Since the Packers aren't in the Superbowl, I really don't fancy anyone in particular. But it's not a matter of asking questions that are "nice;" how would you answer if the question were 'would you rather have a hand cut off or be accused of cutting someone's hand cut off?' or 'would you rather lose your life earnings forever or be accused of swindling someone out of their life earnings forever?' Reality is, it diminishes the crime/act when it's suggested that being accused of the act can be worse than being a victim of the act. Edited February 1, 2013 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I acknowledged that I had posed the question clumsily. It is meant to include the repercussions for the person accused if found guilty. Some, like WIP, would rather spend 10 - 15 years in the can for something they didn't do than be raped. Not me. But I'm a man. A woman may think differently. The intent of the OP was not to make light of rape, rather to suggest that the false accusation be regarded more seriously than it seems to be. Edited February 2, 2013 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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