List of children who have been killed by U.S. drones

[bush_cheney2004]

and 'we' attempt/presume to offer restitution for residential school treatment. You incessantly make reference to residential schools as just another expression of your own personal (country extended) insecurity and confidence lacking.

Yes, 'you' attempt/presume to paper over such transgressions while continuing to do the same by other Crown means. It's just too easy to point this stuff out to the smug types pretending to be 'morally superior" to the Americans. Wanna buy some more bombs for the next Libya ?

[waldo]

Yes, 'you' attempt/presume to paper over such transgressions while continuing to do the same by other Crown means. It's just too easy to point this stuff out to the smug types pretending to be 'morally superior" to the Americans.

right! Should one be surprised you would label a commission, a report, an agreement, and a formal government apology... "papering over"! It is just too easy to point out your own personal and by-country-proxy failed smugness and moral deficiencies concerning the treatment of Native-Americans.

[bush_cheney2004]

right! Should one be surprised you would label a commission, a report, an agreement, and a formal government apology... "papering over"! It is just too easy to point out your own personal and by-country-proxy failed smugness and moral deficiencies concerning the treatment of Native-Americans.

That is exactly what one would quite literally call "papering over", complete with a nice report. It's only appropriate that Canada would have such "truth commissions" as a return favor from South Africa, which learned how to set up a reserve system from Canada and Queen.

[waldo]

That is exactly what one would quite literally call "papering over", complete with a nice report. It's only appropriate that Canada would have such "truth commissions" as a return favor from South Africa, which learned how to set up a reserve system from Canada and Queen.

let's see just how desperate your association attempts are, hey? There have been 'truth commissions' initiated within, quite literally, dozens of countries, many predating the South African commission... but don't let that stop you fabricating a "return favour"! Let's see you weave your magic to frame Canada as the basis for Boer War 'black townships' - sure you can!

[bush_cheney2004]

let's see just how desperate your association attempts are, hey? There have been 'truth commissions' initiated within, quite literally, dozens of countries, many predating the South African commission... but don't let that stop you fabricating a "return favour"! Let's see you weave your magic to frame Canada as the basis for Boer War 'black townships' - sure you can!

No need to go back that far....but Canada certainly deserves all the credit it is due for subjugating the locals around the world.

[waldo]

No need to go back that far

and yet... you're the one that went back that far? I'll take your detracting reluctance as an admission that you can't make the associations you beaked off about. Good on ya!

....but Canada certainly deserves all the credit it is due for subjugating the locals around the world.

... but Canada doesn't hold a candle to deserved credit for your country's due, hey? USA! USA! USA!

[bush_cheney2004]

and yet... you're the one that went back that far? I'll take your detracting reluctance as an admission that you can't make the associations you beaked off about. Good on ya!

It was your association (Boer War)...not mine.

... but Canada doesn't hold a candle to deserved credit for your country's due, hey? USA! USA! USA!

No....it never could. It's the basis for a profound neurosis to this day.

Edited February 10, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

It was your association (Boer War)...not mine.

following your direct "Canada and Queen" reference, I gave you a significant precursor to "apartheid"... one with a British (Anglo-Boer War) attachment. Please feel free to offer your own qualification, one you feel is "less dated"... please feel free to keep digging your hole! Sure you can!

No....it never could. It's the basis for a profound neurosis to this day.

your claimed "profound neurosis" is the one bouncing around the inside of your head... the one that keeps you perpetually insecure and fixated with all that is Canada. By the by, are you planning a celebration when you hit 30K posts?

[bush_cheney2004]

following your direct "Canada and Queen" reference, I gave you a significant precursor to "apartheid"... one with a British (Anglo-Boer War) attachment. Please feel free to offer your own qualification, one you feel is "less dated"... please feel free to keep digging your hole! Sure you can!

Don't complain after you voluntarily take the bait.....I admit to using the finest baits available

your claimed "profound neurosis" is the one bouncing around the inside of your head... the one that keeps you perpetually insecure and fixated with all that is Canada. By the by, are you planning a celebration when you hit 30K posts?

Most definitely, but since you are going down the path of personal attacks (again) that have drawn the pointed disapproval of our moderator host, I will disengage until you cool off. Please try to refrain from such personal attacks in the future for your own sake as a suspended or banned member.

Edited February 10, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Don't complain after you voluntarily take the bait.....I admit to using the finest baits available

I most certainly am not complaining - I relish each and every opportunity to showcase your inability to support your claims.

Most definitely, but since you are going down the path of personal attacks (again) that have drawn the pointed disapproval of our moderator host, I will disengage until you cool off. Please try to refrain from such personal attacks in the future for your own sake as a suspended or banned member.

this is... should be beneath you! You were not attacked - unless you consider your own reference to, as you stated, "a profound neurosis", an "attack". Speaking of, as you say, 'cool'... your attempting to play the ref is not... cool.

[bush_cheney2004]

this is... should be beneath you! You were not attacked - unless you consider your own reference to, as you stated, "a profound neurosis", an "attack". Speaking of, as you say, 'cool'... your attempting to play the ref is not... cool.

The "profound neurosis" is well documented by Canadian authors at a national, not personal level. There is simply no reason to descend to such a personal attack at the member level when an opposing view is presented. It is not only un-cool, but unwise given the clear direction provided by this site's moderator.

Drone attacks on children (or adults for that matter) are most certainly personal.

[waldo]

The "profound neurosis" is well documented by Canadian authors at a national, not personal level. There is simply no reason to descend to such a personal attack at the member level when an opposing view is presented.

no - again, you were not attacked... you are not being attacked. Unless you consider your self-proclaimed MLW raison d'etre, your perpetual want/need to attempt to leverage and exploit, to a most personal level, your claimed "profound neurosis".

[bush_cheney2004]

no - again, you were not attacked... you are not being attacked. Unless you consider your self-proclaimed MLW raison d'etre, your perpetual want/need to attempt to leverage and exploit, to a most personal level, your claimed "profound neurosis".[/size]

The "inside" of my head is personal, as is yours. This thread is about neither, but yet you persist. Do you have anything to offer about personal drone attacks ?

Discussions that wander in and out of a U.S. existence and framework may (at times) invite an American response. Imagine that.

[jbg]

That's a pretty sad way of trying to shift responsibility here! Translation in modern real life would be 'accept your 2nd class or 3rd class status and do not anger your foreign overlords or the dictator they've installed to rule over you. Any resistance will be met with robot bombers from the sky.'

I give up. How should we fight shadowy groups who attack from out of nowhere and melt into the background or die during the attack?

[PIK]

I would like to see the list of children killed by the islamics, taliban, in suicide bombings and just killing girls for the sake of being girls. That list would go on forever. But it seems a childs life is only worth anything when killed by the americans.

[Pliny]

Yes, the national socialist german workers party were big right-wingers.

They were removed from the "socialist" ranks because they violently opposed communism which was thought by Hitler to be a Jewish conspiracy, and placed by Stalin on the extreme opposite of the political spectrum. In fact, they belong on the left. But it would be better understood if we just adopted a more realistic and pragmatic political spectrum that went from zero government to total government. It would be easy to see from that how Fascism and Nazism are so closely related to socialism and communism. Reading the planks of the Communist Manifesto is not all that different than reading the manifesto of the National Socialist Worker's Party co-authored by Hitler.

[Pliny]

I would like to see the list of children killed by the islamics, taliban, in suicide bombings and just killing girls for the sake of being girls. That list would go on forever. But it seems a childs life is only worth anything when killed by the americans.

That's because American's place a value on life, even women and children. They get blamed terribly when they abandon the moral principle that human life has value and it hurts, whereas the Taliban can't be hurt by that criticism.

[Guest American Woman]

I would like to see the list of children killed by the islamics, taliban, in suicide bombings and just killing girls for the sake of being girls. That list would go on forever. But it seems a childs life is only worth anything when killed by the americans.

Yep. If the Americans didn't do it, it's not on a lot of people's radar. Just not worth their time.

[WIP]

I give up. How should we fight shadowy groups who attack from out of nowhere and melt into the background or die during the attack?

Well, how many times have we heard "draining the swamp" tossed up as the analogy for combating the underlying conditions that feed terrorism and insurgencies! I would say that 'draining the swamp' is impossible as long as the U.S. is a colonial power that uses its military as its main tool for diplomacy and thinks it can "regime change" any dictators that step out of line. And how many new terrorists will these drone attacks create? Think about it for a second: you're living in northern Pakistan or southern Yemen....location isn't important....and then one day when you hear this buzzing noise that you've learned is the signature of a robot-guided plane up in the sky, a missile is fired that takes out your family as 'collateral damage' in an attack on a terrorist suspect that was on one of Obama's baseball cards that the President is presented on these 'terror tuesday' briefings....that were supposedly top secret....but leaked to the public without any consequences....unlike the leaks on corruption and use of torture, secret detentions, and deaths of suspects in those secret prisons, which were hunted down and prosecuted under the Espionage Act.

Anyway, because President Obama happened to pick the baseball card of someone who may have only been in close proximity to your family, they're dead! So, what do you do? Jump up in the sky at them? Shoot any gun you might happen to have at them, in a futile attempt to take down one of the drones. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how people affected by this kind of 'collateral damage' can soon become next year's terrorist recruit! Psychologists....including many Israeli psychologists....who have profiled terrorists and terrorist suspects find the common features are feelings of loss of pride and futility. It's not that they're Muslim as all you Neocons try to paint as the picture. There were terrorists before Al Qaeda and Hamas came along....the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka may still have the record for all I know....it's using your life and your own body as the weapon against enemies and perceived enemies. Therefore, these drone attacks are the seeds that will sprout as future suicide bombers....unfortunately, it may occur further along in the future, as a new president will be blamed for it, rather than the one presently sitting in the White House, looking through his stacks of baseball cards for his next target!

And, I want to mention before I forget it again, that every law and tactic that has been created with a specific group in mind, can be turned against anyone else in the future. So, now that the U.S. has created a situation where a president can be judge, jury and executioner on any American citizen....he doesn't have to have a beard and an Arab surname....will any American, regardless of where they live, be safe from this kind of tyranny?

Edited February 11, 2013 by WIP

[GostHacked]

Awesome post WIP. But no matter how many times this is brought up, it's glazed over by the usually with a response of 'I don't know what you are talking about' ..... keep them ears plugged while screaming LALALALALAL ... Then describing the term blowback and how it relates does not seem to garner any understanding either..

So we have people here who simply ignore information like this. Will-full ignorance. Kind of like how the US government loves to run on plausible-deniability. And changing terms like invasion to 'kinetic military action'.

[jbg]

I would like to see the list of children killed by the islamics, taliban, in suicide bombings and just killing girls for the sake of being girls. That list would go on forever. But it seems a childs life is only worth anything when killed by the americans.

Perfect.

To these people any act that advanced Western societies take to defend themselves is by definition bad.

[WIP]

Awesome post WIP. But no matter how many times this is brought up, it's glazed over by the usually with a response of 'I don't know what you are talking about' ..... keep them ears plugged while screaming LALALALALAL ... Then describing the term blowback and how it relates does not seem to garner any understanding either..

So we have people here who simply ignore information like this. Will-full ignorance. Kind of like how the US government loves to run on plausible-deniability. And changing terms like invasion to 'kinetic military action'.

Yes, and we should also note that the public is complacent and largely disinterested because drone attacks are seen as something that happens over there. But that will all change as soon as Iran gets a bunch of drones, or starts building their own, and flies them over here to assassinate enemies on their list.

[GostHacked]

Yes, and we should also note that the public is complacent and largely disinterested because drone attacks are seen as something that happens over there. But that will all change as soon as Iran gets a bunch of drones, or starts building their own, and flies them over here to assassinate enemies on their list.

We don't have to wait. The USA plans to use up to 30,000 drones in the continental USA by 2020. Police departments are already using them, and some are now even armed. Iran would have to hurry up their drone production to even match the USA.

[Pliny]

Well, how many times have we heard "draining the swamp" tossed up as the analogy for combating the underlying conditions that feed terrorism and insurgencies! I would say that 'draining the swamp' is impossible as long as the U.S. is a colonial power that uses its military as its main tool for diplomacy and thinks it can "regime change" any dictators that step out of line. And how many new terrorists will these drone attacks create? Think about it for a second: you're living in northern Pakistan or southern Yemen....location isn't important....and then one day when you hear this buzzing noise that you've learned is the signature of a robot-guided plane up in the sky, a missile is fired that takes out your family as 'collateral damage' in an attack on a terrorist suspect that was on one of Obama's baseball cards that the President is presented on these 'terror tuesday' briefings....that were supposedly top secret....but leaked to the public without any consequences....unlike the leaks on corruption and use of torture, secret detentions, and deaths of suspects in those secret prisons, which were hunted down and prosecuted under the Espionage Act.

Anyway, because President Obama happened to pick the baseball card of someone who may have only been in close proximity to your family, they're dead! So, what do you do? Jump up in the sky at them? Shoot any gun you might happen to have at them, in a futile attempt to take down one of the drones. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how people affected by this kind of 'collateral damage' can soon become next year's terrorist recruit! Psychologists....including many Israeli psychologists....who have profiled terrorists and terrorist suspects find the common features are feelings of loss of pride and futility. It's not that they're Muslim as all you Neocons try to paint as the picture. There were terrorists before Al Qaeda and Hamas came along....the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka may still have the record for all I know....it's using your life and your own body as the weapon against enemies and perceived enemies. Therefore, these drone attacks are the seeds that will sprout as future suicide bombers....unfortunately, it may occur further along in the future, as a new president will be blamed for it, rather than the one presently sitting in the White House, looking through his stacks of baseball cards for his next target!

And, I want to mention before I forget it again, that every law and tactic that has been created with a specific group in mind, can be turned against anyone else in the future. So, now that the U.S. has created a situation where a president can be judge, jury and executioner on any American citizen....he doesn't have to have a beard and an Arab surname....will any American, regardless of where they live, be safe from this kind of tyranny?

Well, I have heard the phrase "draining the swamp" mostly referenced to Washington DC. Famous swamp drainer Nancy Pelosi is still working on that but doesn't realize she is part of the problem.

As for jbg's lament about what should be done. The way to win over or engage the enemy is to stay strong yourself, meaning keeping your own economy strong not rob it to build million dollar drones, keep your citizens happy meaning not robbing them of their earnings. And then slowly, through trade and spreading the wealth raise the living standards of a few citizens despite the complaints of the immorality of materialism until those citizens become numerous enough to start to demand change, less tyranny from their government and better living standards for everyone. It means having modern plumbing, heating/airconditioning, and electricity. I know that sounds horrible to the left who would want to keep development to a minumum because the Earth can't afford it anymore but that is the way for all of us to head to the tyranny of the welfare state. We have never been a species to adjust to our environment, as this type of thinking suggests we do, we always face the challenge of adjusting the environment to ourselves. Anyone thinking the other way already believes all is lost and men need to be controlled or the environment will destroy them.

But back to the enemy. They really aren't an enemy. Improving the living standards of a percentage of their citizens will bring demand for change from tyranny and they will bring down their own tyrants. So the war is fought on an economic front not a military front. The problem with most third world countries is there is no "equality" of opportunity, the ruling class more or less controls the flow of wealth. I think opening the eyes of women and children to the fact they should have basic human rights is the best approach to progressive change in the power structure in the mid-east.

Drones? Pure idiocy promulgated by bullies that hold narcissitic views of themselves and believe the masses to be comprised of repugnant dullards that can only thrive through their benevolence.

[GostHacked]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21439830

The issue of civilian deaths caused by Nato strikes has been one of the greatest sources of tension between the US and Afghan officials, with President Karzai frequently speaking out in anger over deaths.

It is with complete respect that the USA ignores Afghanistan's leader in order to carry out drone strikes in Afghanistan.