DogOnPorch Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 Why not? If that's how they can create a "one-state" country, just by naming it Israel, I don't see why they would not avail themselves of the opportunity. Yeah...Fatah and Hamas REALLY want to keep the Jewish name...lol. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 I would have no clue. Well you certainly got that part right... Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
TheNewTeddy Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 Yeah...Fatah and Hamas REALLY want to keep the Jewish name...lol. Again: if it brings peace, why not? Especially if they can create an Islamic state out of it. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Guest American Woman Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Again: if it brings peace, why not? Especially if they can create an Islamic state out of it. You think creating an Islamic state out of Israel is going to bring peace? Edited January 14, 2013 by American Woman Quote
Bonam Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 Again: if it brings peace, why not? Especially if they can create an Islamic state out of it. How would 6 million Jews being sent to extermination camps in an Islamic state bring peace exactly? Just what kind of "peace" are we talking about? Quote
TheNewTeddy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 I'm making the point that the argument is not about Israel, it's about a Jewish Israel. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Bonam Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 I'm making the point that the argument is not about Israel, it's about a Jewish Israel. Israel is Jewish. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Israel is Jewish. Both Fatah's and Hamas's charters are VERY clear as to their goals: no Jews. Not one. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
TheNewTeddy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Fatah and Hamas are just political parties. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Guest American Woman Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Fatah and Hamas are just political parties. As was the Nazi party. I fail to see your point. Quote
TheNewTeddy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Most Palestinians want a single-state solution. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
jbg Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 How would 6 million Jews being sent to extermination camps in an Islamic state bring peace exactly? Just what kind of "peace" are we talking about? The peace of the grave. The left wingers here will be very mournful of the Jews' extermination, but oppose any effort to prevent that. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Hudson Jones Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 The crocodile cries of "driving Jews into the sea" and "the extermination of Jews" are once again being used to derail any kind of rational talk about the fact that Palestinians also deserve their own state and self-determination. The land that Israel wants to annex does not belong to Israel. The Palestinians have every right to settle in their own land. It doesn't matter if Israel was able to beat someone in a war. The reason it doesn't matter is because international law has already determined what Israel's border is. This is why the Jewish settlements beyond the 1967 border are considered to be illegal by the international community. This includes Israel's closest allies; the United States and Canada. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Bonam Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Which is all fine, and most reasonable people support a two state solution. A "one state solution" which subjugates Jews to live in an Islamic tyranny is obviously unacceptable however, despite some people's fantasies. Quote
Canuckistani Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Which is all fine, and most reasonable people support a two state solution. A "one state solution" which subjugates Jews to live in an Islamic tyranny is obviously unacceptable however, despite some people's fantasies. Several unreasonable people on this forum don't. A one state solution that drives the Palestinians into the Jordan is also unacceptable, despite some people's fantasies. Quote
jbg Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Several unreasonable people on this forum don't. A one state solution that drives the Palestinians into the Jordan is also unacceptable, despite some people's fantasies. Why?There are dozens of Arab states, almost all underpopulated and underdeveloped. The resource money of course goes elsewhere, Why should the "solution" come out of Israel's hide? Why not give the Six Nations a chunk of North York while we're at it? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 So exactly what is the problem with Palestinians building on Palestinian land? I still don't have an answer for that. Quote
jbg Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 So exactly what is the problem with Palestinians building on Palestinian land? I still don't have an answer for that. That land is now ruled by Israel and Israel makes the laws. Does that clarify things? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 That land is now ruled by Israel and Israel makes the laws. Does that clarify things? Not exactly. Why would one object to Palestinians building on Palestinian land? Why is it ok for Jewish settlements to be built on Palestinian land? If one believes that the whole region belongs to the Jews and want to get rid of the other population, then that is no better than the stance others have put forth about the Palestinians wanting to clear all the Jews out of the same area. This to me just goes around and around, a nice perpetual state of conflict between two peoples who may not even deserve the land they are supposedly fighting for. Both sides are stubborn. Palestine gets recognition, Israel builds more settlements there. I fail to see how this is right and the other is wrong. Quote
jbg Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Not exactly. Why would one object to Palestinians building on Palestinian land? Why is it ok for Jewish settlements to be built on Palestinian land? If one believes that the whole region belongs to the Jews and want to get rid of the other population, then that is no better than the stance others have put forth about the Palestinians wanting to clear all the Jews out of the same area. The Israelis have been waiting since 1948 for the local Arab population to has out the details of coexistence within the area. What they have gotten are wars, terrorism or "guerrilla warfare" as it was once called, and non-serious negotiation positions involving flooding post 1948 Armistice Israel with the alleged descendants of Arab refugees. This state of limbo cannot endure forever. This to me just goes around and around, a nice perpetual state of conflict between two peoples who may not even deserve the land they are supposedly fighting for. Both sides are stubborn. Palestine gets recognition, Israel builds more settlements there. I fail to see how this is right and the other is wrong. See above. The Palestinians' position has been that they will not accept a permanent Jewish state within any boundaries. And Israel's position is that any Jewish state must include Jerusalem. Further, it would likely cede the rest of the West Bank if there were true disarmament and peace. The Arabs call that solution the creation of "Bantustans." Go figure. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Canuckistani Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Why? There are dozens of Arab states, almost all underpopulated and underdeveloped. The resource money of course goes elsewhere, Why should the "solution" come out of Israel's hide? Why not give the Six Nations a chunk of North York while we're at it? As I was saying. If that's the attitude, why not just give the shitty little state of Israel to the Arabs then, and let the Jews emigrate to Western countries? They'll do well there, and can live in peace. Lots of religious/ethnic groups don't have their own state, so it's no big deal. No more fuss and fighting. Quote
Bonam Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) If that's the attitude, why not just give the shitty little state of Israel to the Arabs then, and let the Jews emigrate to Western countries? They'll do well there, and can live in peace. History shows otherwise. Many Jews fled to Israel precisely because they could not in fact live in peace in Western countries, whether it was 1940s Europe or 1990s USSR. But violence and discrimination against Jews in Western countries is not limited to the 20th century, it has existed for thousands of years. And there is absolutely no reason to believe that this will not continue to be the case in the future. The past, too, had periods of relative tolerance and peacefulness, as we have today, but such periods were short-lived and always returned to hatred and violence, and none can say with assurance that this could not happen again in the future. Edited January 15, 2013 by Bonam Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 As I was saying. If that's the attitude, why not just give the shitty little state of Israel to the Arabs then, and let the Jews emigrate to Western countries? They'll do well there, and can live in peace. Lots of religious/ethnic groups don't have their own state, so it's no big deal. No more fuss and fighting. Any ideas as to why Jews want a state of their own to begin with? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Canuckistani Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 History shows otherwise. I look at Canada, the US, western Europe, and Jews do exceptionally well. And live in peace, certainly compared to Israel. I notice you chose to address my comment following jgb's, but not his. Just how reasonable and two state solution oriented are you, when you only respond in that fashion, don't address Israel pushing the Palestinians out of the West Bank? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 They should have been pushed out in 1967. Just like a pack of Germans. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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