BubberMiley Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 People rarely die on wait lists in Canada because wait lists are reasonable and reserved for non-life-threatening issues. But 45,000 people die in the U.S. "waiting" for health care they don't have and will never get. That's what they mean by "dead" last. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
guyser Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Well, at the end of the day we in the north have no concerns about some idiot flunky in an insurance cubicle is denying treatment . Or worry about going broke. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) People rarely die on wait lists in Canada because wait lists are reasonable and reserved for non-life-threatening issues. But 45,000 people die in the U.S. "waiting" for health care they don't have and will never get. That's what they mean by "dead" last. Yes, I get all that, but Americans (and Canadians with other options) don't have to wait patriotically with pain and suffering just for the "national dream". People do die in Canada on wait lists, same as in the USA. Then there is the lost productivity, medical bankruptcies due to lost income, disability, etc., etc. same as in the USA. Health care is not a right...not even in Canada. Edited June 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Still nothing? For someone that has so much to say, you sure don't say much. If youre expecting that guy to be part of a real honest discussion, you just put yourself on the longest waiting list ever. Edited June 10, 2014 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
BubberMiley Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 People do die in Canada on wait lists, same as in the USA.But many, many more of them, per capita, are in the U.S. That's the point. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
On Guard for Thee Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I have a little experience with Air Ambulance services. In Canada they are funded by the taxpayer, and menat to get the patient into care quicker. In the US they are menat to get the patients care card into the scanner quicker. I am aware of at least one state that has a law that makes it an offence to overfly a suitable medical facility to get to the facility which owns the aircraft. Even the pilot can be charged in such a case. Quote
guyser Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 medical bankruptcies due to lost income, disability, etc., etc. same as in the USA.Except its not the same as in the USA. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Except its not the same as in the USA. No not the same at all. In the US you may well be bankrupt before you even get out of the hospital. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) But many, many more of them, per capita, are in the U.S. That's the point. Okay...your money or your life...so what ? The US has made no false promises about universal access and "free" health care for political advantage...at least not until recently, and even then it is not universal and has means tests. If I have the cash and/or insurance, I am not going to wait like a patriot in CHA Canada. Eff that.... Edited June 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 If youre expecting that guy to be part of a real honest discussion, you just put yourself on the longest waiting list ever. That's true....three of these guys are on ignore and I have no idea what they are barking about. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 If youre expecting that guy to be part of a real honest discussion, you just put yourself on the longest waiting list ever. bingo! For the thread win!!! . Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Okay...your money or your life...so what ? The US has made no false promises about universal access and "free" health care for political advantage...at least not until recently, and even then it is not universal and has means tests. If I have the cash and/or insurance, I am not going to wait like a patriot in CHA Canada. Eff that.... Correct. The US has certainly made no such promise. So it remains "your money or your life" down there. eff that! Quote
waldo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 just another of the great deflector's dodge grouping I summarized earlier! "No promise of universiality exists in the U.S. system"... which, to the great deflector, simply means he turns a blind eye to the (still) approximate 15% of Americans without insurance coverage... which means he also turns a blind eye to the inherent constrainst the >50+ million Americans with Medicaid coverage are subject to... which means he also turns a blind eye to Americans who forego medical care due to cost (19% of Americans per that Commonwealth Fund survey... who consequently don't end up on the American waiting lists)... etc.. Quote
guyser Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 No sense bothering waldo. You will never get an honest answer but more deflection, smarminess, trolling and outright bullshit like we have all had to put up with for eons now. Not worth it. Quote
waldo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 so true! It is heartening to read that, apparently... 3 of us are on the great deflectors ignore list! That's always a good comeback when the heat is on - just say you're ignoring your inconvenient challengers! It would appear the ignored winning triumvirate would be you... OGFT... and moi! Quote
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Then why do you keep responding ? Because you presented an argument and I'm waiting for you to back it up. You've been asked repeatedly to support your argument and you haven't yet. It's really starting to look like you can't. Oh and you may not want to talk about out-of-country medical care, since it's so prolific in the states a term was made for it there: medical tourism. Or haven't you heard? Edited June 10, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 $6000 is chump change for a life threatening circumstance. Of course it is and that's what makes the US healthcare system so damn unethical. Those who can afford it survive. Those who can't die or put off getting care until it's incurable. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 People rarely die on wait lists in Canada because wait lists are reasonable and reserved for non-life-threatening issues. But 45,000 people die in the U.S. "waiting" for health care they don't have and will never get. That's what they mean by "dead" last. This thread should have been locked after this post. Discussion's over after this one. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Because you presented an argument and I'm waiting for you to back it up. You've been asked repeatedly to support your argument and you haven't yet. It's really starting to look like you can't. Not true...I have provided OECD reports for wait times as of 2010, and other supporting evidence in previous posts / threads. Your own country has demonstrated the need for improvements in wait times that has still not been achieved (benchmarks). Oh and you may not want to talk about out-of-country medical care, since it's so prolific in the states a term was made for it there: medical tourism. Medical tourism only supports my public/private position, free of the collectivist limitations imposed in Canada for insurance and scheduled procedures. Again, the USA has no mandate for universal access or coverage. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Of course it is and that's what makes the US healthcare system so damn unethical. Those who can afford it survive. Those who can't die or put off getting care until it's incurable. And why is this a problem ? Nothing I have stated precludes a public/private system. Liberty will not tolerate the "unethical" limits on one's labour and choices imposed by the collectivist "CommieCare". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) This thread should have been locked after this post. Discussion's over after this one. Sure...nobody ever dies in Canada while wait listed....it's a MIRACLE ! The Koshal report came on the heels of the death of Diane Gorsuch, who died after waiting two years for surgery. The report said there was "an inappropriate eight-month waiting list for echocardiography" in Winnipeg and the problem needed to be addressed. The wait time in 2010 was nine months, according to the Liberals. Last week, the Free Press reported 12 people had died while awaiting cardiac surgery in Winnipeg over the past three years. They had been waiting for surgery, on average, for more than 50 days. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Cardiac-surgery-wait-times-on-rise-Liberals-117583024.html Edited June 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 This thread should have been locked after this post. Discussion's over after this one. of course! You now have the great deflector claiming he's actually provided wait time lists data for U.S. elective surgeries... that criteria point he harped on forevah! Where is it??? To-date nothing has been provided that speaks to those U.S. wait times, inclusive of all U.S. government and private coverage options... or those 7 million Massachusetts Americans with what he labels the U.S. version of Commie Care coverage... or reflects upon those millions of Americans that aren't included within wait times since they either don't have insurance and/or can't pay for medical care... as in, again, "they don't wait for something that isn't coming", etc.. you now have the great deflector, once again, pulling out one of his tried and true deflections - universiality; aka what he labels "CommieCare"! his just provided statements are quite telling: "the USA has no mandate for universal access or coverage"... "Liberty will not tolerate the "unethical" limits on one's labour and choices imposed by the collectivist "CommieCare"". Apparently, with this universiality dodge, the great deflector simply wants to... deflect away from including all those inconvenient Americans who so elevate the comparative failings of U.S. health care, the failings of U.S. health outcomes! unfortunately for the great deflector, health care universiality doesn't allow for his dodge from acknowledging and/or discussing the American Health Disadvantage; the comparative failure of American health, of American health outcomes relative to other representative countries... the U.S. 'dead last/near the bottom rankings', as evidenced through all the comparative country studies presented within this thread. Or, in the deflector's world, are there degrees of being an American? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 The Fraser Institute...keeping it real in Canada: Wait times for health care in Canada may be linked to increase in female death ratesVANCOUVER—Canada’s growing wait times for health care may have contributed to the deaths of 44,273 Canadian women between 1993 and 2009, concludes a new study released today by the Fraser Institute, an independent, non-partisan Canadian public policy think-tank. The study, The Effect of Wait Times on Mortality in Canada, examines the relationship between mortality rates and lengthy wait times for medically necessary care in Canada. As wait times between referral (from a general practitioner) and treatment increase, finds the study, so does the rate of female mortality. “Deaths resulting from delayed medical care are unacceptable. Canadian taxpayers fund one of the developed world’s most expensive universal access health care systems, yet delays for emergency care, primary care, specialist consultation and elective surgery are among the longest in the world,” said Nadeem Esmail, study author and Fraser Institute senior fellow. http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/news-releases/Wait-times-for-health-care-in-Canada-may-be-linked-to-increase-in-female-death-rates/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 Nothing the Fraser institute produces is of much value. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 Nothing the Fraser institute produces is of much value. The same can be said of many American sources cited in this thread. Agenda...agenda...agenda. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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