waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 Thanks for the review...but we have already established that the so called "health disadvantage" is largely associated with American lifestyle choices and culture, measurement bias, "universality" agenda, etc. We have also established that the U.S. "disadvantage" is chosen by more emigres than any other nation (including Canada), and that other nationals take advantage of the supporting U.S. healthcare system when their own systems fail to meet individual needs in a timely or effective manner (including some very high profile Canadians). you're deluded... you've established nothing. Remember, it's the study you won't have anything to do with! nice wording on the "emigres"! Nice to see you've accepted the schooling I gave you and won't refer again to "rate of emigres"... cause rate doesn't fit your false narrative, does it? how special of you to highlight, 'nationals taking advantage of the U.S. healthcare system'... as compared to the hundreds of thousands of Americans (750,000/2007) traveling outside the U.S. for their medical care, as your own country's system (following your words above), "fails to meet individual needs in a timely or effective manner". Quote
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 What I am saying is clearly stated above. ObamaCare preserves the basic elements of the U.S. healthcare market by legislating the insurance model for more Americans and adding funding mechanisms (taxes) for means tested benefits, electronic records, MediCare Advantage offsets, reductions in MediCare hospital payments, etc. ObamaCare soundly rejected attempts by progressives to adopt a single payer system, which would have constituted the much hated "Canadianization" of American health care. just answer the questions on whether the right-wing/GOP attacks on Obamacare were all false/manufactured... is there a problem? Have another look at that Heritage Foundation link I provided you. If you'd like I can find direct GOP attributed attacks on Obamacare - let me know. so... you're saying all the attacks against Obamacare were false/manufactured? You're saying, for example, the Heritage Foundation impacts of Obamacare I just linked to are false? You're saying all the Republican attacks against the impacts of Obamacare these last recent years, this recent U.S. Presidential election campaign were false?... etc.. Is that what you're saying?... that Obamacare will have no impacts on the American healthcare 'system'? Really? That's what you're saying? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 you clearly didn't know. Like I said a few posts back... you're made aware of private options and suddenly you're an authority. You said it was just you being a 'quick learner', right? No - it was nothing more than interest; your 'appeal' phrasing presumes on need... a need I don't presently have and don't anticipate to have (if ever) for a decade+. The point (and petulance) still stands regardless of my MAI epiphany. Clearly you contemplated a solution outside of the CHA religion. like I said, let's see what level of petulance you rise to! Huh! "Province sending patients to the U.S. for knee replacements"??? Is this your latest fabrication? Don't you remember... just a few posts back... your charade was busted. You went into a colour font, bold emphasized tissy pumping incorrect OHIP Out-Of-Country approvals. I burst your bubble, showing the current rate of OOC approvals is less than a thousand a year... from Canada's most populated province, representing >40% of the country's population numbers. Such a huuuuuge number for you to bark over! One thousand per year for OHIP is laughable given the number of preferred provider contracts in place. Why the hell would Ontariario contract such an extensive OOC network for so few OOC referrals ? There were 1660 referrals just for bariatric surgery alone in 2008, so many in fact, that Ontario slowed/shut down the "underground railroad" for morbidly obese Canadians to make a run for the border to 18 American providers, as it was costing too much money. Get back in the WAITLIST line, fat people !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 just answer the questions on whether the right-wing/GOP attacks on Obamacare were all false/manufactured... is there a problem? Have another look at that Heritage Foundation link I provided you. If you'd like I can find direct GOP attributed attacks on Obamacare - let me know. No, as you are wasting my time for ground already covered here and in other threads. The Obamacare debate and subsequent court rulings were readily reported in U.S. media. No such debate is politically possible in Canada, since the CHA is actually a religion. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 The point (and petulance) still stands regardless of my MAI epiphany. no, the point doesn't stand... but thanks for acknowledging you didn't know what you've talking about for a brazillion posts in this thread prior to your epiphany schooling! Clearly you contemplated a solution outside of the CHA religion.no - again you choose words that only fit your false narrative. Your 'contemplated solution', again, presumes on need. The need doesn't exist... and may not exist ever. Quit making shyte up!One thousand per year for OHIP is laughable given the number of preferred provider contracts in place. Why the hell would Ontariario contract such an extensive OOC network for so few OOC referrals ? There were 1660 referrals just for bariatric surgery alone in 2008, so many in fact, that Ontario slowed/shut down the "underground railroad" for morbidly obese Canadians to make a run for the border to 18 American providers, as it was costing too much money. Get back in the WAITLIST line, fat people !! I gave you current/actual numbers of approved OOC procedures (from the Ontario Ministry of Health). I pointed out your numbers were not accurate (that if anything they represented application numbers... and by your provided dates, they would include applications that weren't from a medical specialist. In recent years, Ontario only accepts applications directly from specialists... I told you this. Of course, you ignore it all and continue to push the incorrect numbers, as minuscule as even your numbers are. since you again mention bariatric surgery: again, per the Ontario Ministry of Health, in the 2010/2011 fiscal year, 1842 bariatric procedures were performed in Ontario... while 220 were performed out-of-country. Again, will you quit making up shyte. By the way, if you'd like to resurrect the MLW 'Fat Americans' thread, we could have another go at the state of your country's obesity epidemic. Your call. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 no - again you choose words that only fit your false narrative. Your 'contemplated solution', again, presumes on need. The need doesn't exist... and may not exist ever. Quit making shyte up! I made nothing up...and anybody who would be so foolish as to admit to wanting a private option does not bolster the case for continued CommieCare. I gave you current/actual numbers of approved OOC procedures (from the Ontario Ministry of Health). I pointed out your numbers were not accurate (that if anything they represented application numbers... and by your provided dates, they would include applications that weren't from a medical specialist. In recent years, Ontario only accepts applications directly from specialists... I told you this. Of course, you ignore it all and continue to push the incorrect numbers, as minuscule as even your numbers are. Stop arguing about the numbers which are obviously higher than you reported. The fact that there are any such "numbers" is the larger issue. Why are Canadian provinces sending patients to American health care providers ? Instead of barking demands at me, why do you keep dodging this question ? since you again mention bariatric surgery: again, per the Ontario Ministry of Health, in the 2010/2011 fiscal year, 1842 bariatric procedures were performed in Ontario... while 220 were performed out-of-country. Again, will you quit making up shyte. By the way, if you'd like to resurrect the MLW 'Fat Americans' thread, we could have another go at the state of your country's obesity epidemic. Your call. I already indicated that the Fat Man's Underground Bariatric Surgery Railroad from Ontario to the USA was so large, Dalton McGuinty shut it down. That's how I know your OHIP OOC numbers were lies. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826485/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 No, as you are wasting my time for ground already covered here and in other threads. The Obamacare debate and subsequent court rulings were readily reported in U.S. media. No such debate is politically possible in Canada, since the CHA is actually a religion. I accept your unwillingness to address whether all the right-wing/GOP attacks on Obamacare were false/manufactured... most specifically, I accept your unwillingness to counter the attacks that speak to the many, many, most significant negative impacting consequences of Obamacare. I get it, you need to remain in your isolated bubble pretending that your country's healthcare systems won't be affected... you need to preserve your false narrative! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 I accept your unwillingness to address whether all the right-wing/GOP attacks on Obamacare were false/manufactured... most specifically, I accept your unwillingness to counter the attacks that speak to the many, many, most significant negative impacting consequences of Obamacare. I get it, you need to remain in your isolated bubble pretending that your country's healthcare systems won't be affected... you need to preserve your false narrative! You have to accept it...you're in Canada with a bum knee and a long waitlist down the road....not me. LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 I made nothing up...and anybody who would be so foolish as to admit to wanting a private option does not bolster the case for continued CommieCare. how juvenile and petulant are you? You keep flinging words only meant to troll... you've now used 3 different phrase variants, none of which align with me having any immediate need, if ever. In this your latest iteration, "wanting", also implies need... of which there is none. Stop arguing about the numbers which are obviously higher than you reported. The fact that there are any such "numbers" is the larger issue. Why are Canadian provinces sending patients to American health care providers ? Instead of barking demands at me, why do you keep dodging this question?correcting your inaccuracies is not arguing. Whether your OHIP OOC application numbers, or my (Ontario Ministry of Health) factual numbers, the numbers of Canadians utilizing the U.S. health care system is, again, "mice nuts". The larger issue is your continued dodge on the comparative number of Americans forced to seek medical care outside your country (the hundreds of thousands of Americans)! accurate real numbers (from the Ontario Health Ministry) for OHIP approved/covered Out Of Country applications:2011-12: 176* (1st. quarter) 2010-11: 1,076 2009-10: 3,161 2008-09: 3,177 2007-08: 2,463 like I said, "mice-nuts" numbers representing health ministries approving Canadians for healthcare in the U.S.... Ontario numbers - you know, the most populated province in Canada with more than 40% of the country's population. "Mice-nuts", hey?... particularly in relation to this handy graphic showing U.S. numbers/projections of Americans 'forced' to seek healthcare outside the U.S.. Wouldn't you say, hey? There were 1660 referrals just for bariatric surgery alone in 2008, so many in fact, that Ontario slowed/shut down the "underground railroad" for morbidly obese Canadians to make a run for the border to 18 American providers, as it was costing too much money. Get back in the WAITLIST line, fat people !!since you again mention bariatric surgery: again, per the Ontario Ministry of Health, in the 2010/2011 fiscal year, 1842 bariatric procedures were performed in Ontario... while 220 were performed out-of-country. Again, will you quit making up shyte. By the way, if you'd like to resurrect the MLW 'Fat Americans' thread, we could have another go at the state of your country's obesity epidemic. Your call.I already indicated that the Fat Man's Underground Bariatric Surgery Railroad from Ontario to the USA was so large, Dalton McGuinty shut it down. That's how I know your OHIP OOC numbers were lies.http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2826485/ lies? Nice to see you becoming unhinged... flummoxed! Again, I gave you the approval numbers (repeated again, above, in this post). You don't say whether your 1660/2008 number reflects upon the FY 2007-2008, or the FY 2008-2009. Let's say it's 2008-2009... taking your number at face value that would suggest of the "2008-09: 3,177" total of OHIP OOC approvals, 1660 of that 3,177 total approvals number would be your stated/claimed OOC bariatric surgeries. Is there a problem? Just what would have you so railing that you'd throw the "lies" reference? Perhaps you need a break to cool down/off, hey? Quote
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 You have to accept it...you're in Canada with a bum knee and a long waitlist down the road....not me. LOL! keep trolling, oh petulant one Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) how juvenile and petulant are you? You keep flinging words only meant to troll... you've now used 3 different phrase variants, none of which align with me having any immediate need, if ever. In this your latest iteration, "wanting", also implies need... of which there is none. You volunteered personal information that does not support your position...I exploited that information...any questions ? correcting your inaccuracies is not arguing. Whether your OHIP OOC application numbers, or my (Ontario Ministry of Health) factual numbers, the numbers of Canadians utilizing the U.S. health care system is, again, "mice nuts". The larger issue is your continued dodge on the comparative number of Americans forced to seek medical care outside your country (the hundreds of thousands of Americans)! All the better, as now you are equating Americans being "forced" to Canadians doing the same thing. THank you for agreeing with my assessment of the waitlist game in Canada. lies? Nice to see you becoming unhinged... flummoxed! Again, I gave you the approval numbers (repeated again, above, in this post). You don't say whether your 1660/2008 number reflects upon the FY 2007-2008, or the FY 2008-2009. Let's say it's 2008-2009... taking your number at face value that would suggest of the "2008-09: 3,177" total of OHIP OOC approvals, 1660 of that 3,177 total approvals number would be your stated/claimed OOC bariatric surgeries. Is there a problem? Just what would have you so railing that you'd throw the "lies" reference? Perhaps you need a break to cool down/off, hey? There is no problem...you have been exposed by OHIP sources for actual numbers. Playing rope-a-dope with numbers and scale (i.e. " mice testicles") does not change the fundamental premise.....Canadian provinces entering into contracts to deliver care in the United States of America for waitlisted patients. You have yet to respond why this is necessary as part of official CommieCare. Edited January 31, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 More documented Canadian "advantage" for diagnostic imaging : Excessive wait times for some healthcare interventions have caught the attention of governments, providers and the public (Sanmartin et al. 2000). Of particular interest to these groups are cardiac surgery, joint replacement surgery, cancer care and advanced diagnostic imaging, specifically magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). Wait times for diagnostic imaging are particularly important because they may result in delays in definitive treatment. Efforts to reduce wait times for MRI have focused on increasing the number of diagnostic imaging devices, as Canada lags far behind other countries in this regard. For instance, Japan and the United States have 35.3 and 19.5 MRI units per million population, respectively, whereas Canada has only 4.6. (Stein 2005). The number of MRI scanners in Canada is lower than the median of 6.1 scanners per million for all countries within the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (Stein 2005). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653696/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) You volunteered personal information that does not support your position...I exploited that information...any questions ? no - I volunteered personal information as a part of categorically showing that, in spite of all your pompous, blustering, bravado, you didn't know what you were talking about. Of course, once you were schooled, you immediately became an expert and purposely, and repeatedly, miscast and twisted my volunteered personal information... what you now call "exploited". It's what you do - it's what you're about. All the better, as now you are equating Americans being "forced" to Canadians doing the same thing. THank you for agreeing with my assessment of the waitlist game in Canada. no - the forced reference was in regards to the hundreds of thousands of Americans who... are forced... to seek healthcare outside the U.S. The forced reference reflects upon Americans who, for example, have reached their insurance cap limits, or have limited/constrained insurance benefits, or have been refused benefits by their insurers (e.g. pre-existing conditions), or can't afford to pay the U.S. costs, etc.There is no problem...you have been exposed by OHIP sources for actual numbers. Playing rope-a-dope with numbers and scale (i.e. " mice testicles") does not change the fundamental premise.....Canadian provinces entering into contracts to deliver care in the United States of America for waitlisted patients. You have yet to respond why this is necessary as part of official CommieCare. the numbers I gave you are accurate per the Ontario Ministry of Health. You've already been shown that the number you're wigging out about, your supplied 2008 OHIP OOC bariatric procedures number, is not inconsistent with the data I've provided. You've had this explained to you... you've not countered it. You're simply ticked that you had another of your talking points busted. In fact, what's most bizarre, is that you confirmed the now low bariatric procedure number, now at 220/2010-2011, by your curt suggestion that McGuinty shut down what you called the, "Fat Man's Underground Bariatric Surgery Railroad from Ontario to the USA". You confirm it... and yet you lash out and say I'm lying, and as you've now just done, that "I've been exposed"! How desperate are you? and, again, as I suggested, if you'd like to speak of the "Fat Man", don't hesitate to resurrect that MLW "Fat Americans" thread... we can see if there's any change/improvement in dealing with the American Obesity Epidemic. As before, your call. Edited January 31, 2013 by waldo Quote
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 More documented Canadian "advantage" for diagnostic imaging : why are you bothering with pre-2000 year data... you've been provided the Canadian wait times link for current/comparative measures. You've already received numerous acknowledgements, from several different MLW members (including myself) that Canada's wait times are longer than those in the U.S. Of course, you will never acknowledge wait times even exist in your country. You've also received commentary, several times, speaking to the triage approach Canada follows... and yet you persist in trotting out Canadian wait time references while ignoring references that speak to long/excessive wait times in your own country. the point you need to address for yourself, the one you keep missing/ignoring/deflecting away from, is that, in spite of your shorter wait times, why is there such a disproportionate health disadvantage for Americans relative to other higher income countries. Is there something else going on? Ya think! as for your reference to, 'MRI units per million population', the latest OECD numbers show Canada has ~doubled your dated reference number... while the U.S. number is now ~10% lower than the dated reference number you provided. Wow, the U.S. is on the down-slide! Cause, after all, you play these indicators off in terms of some 'zero-sum-game' that does nothing but allow you to fuel your false narrative. Think... triage... there's that word again!!! Quote
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 speaking of a current and most prevalent American view on the 'already' existence of universality within the United States health care system, one need look no further than to the statement made by: The immediate goal is to make sure there are more people on private insurance plans. I mean, people have access to health care in America. After all, you just go to an emergency room. every American has health care... just go to an emergency room! yes, that's right, how the U.S. relies on the use of emergency care as a substitute for - or a consequence of the lack of - proper primary care within the U.S. health care system. The critically acclaimed and award winning documentary film, 'The Waiting Room': ... "an inside look at an overwhelmed and at times overwhelming U.S. healthcare system and its impact on patients and staff." Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 no - I volunteered personal information as a part of categorically showing that, in spite of all your pompous, blustering, bravado, you didn't know what you were talking about. Of course, once you were schooled, you immediately became an expert and purposely, and repeatedly, miscast and twisted my volunteered personal information... what you now call "exploited". It's what you do - it's what you're about. Thank you.....while I am not a priest, your confession was most timely and appreciated. Good luck with the bum knee and waitlist journey when it happens. We'll leave the light on for you at Mayo. no - the forced reference was in regards to the hundreds of thousands of Americans who... are forced... to seek healthcare outside the U.S. The forced reference reflects upon Americans who, for example, have reached their insurance cap limits, or have limited/constrained insurance benefits, or have been refused benefits by their insurers (e.g. pre-existing conditions), or can't afford to pay the U.S. costs, etc. That's all well and good, but no CommieCare promises were ever made to them. the numbers I gave you are accurate per the Ontario Ministry of Health. ....as were mine.....group hug ? In fact, what's most bizarre, is that you confirmed the now low bariatric procedure number, now at 220/2010-2011, by your curt suggestion that McGuinty shut down what you called the, "Fat Man's Underground Bariatric Surgery Railroad from Ontario to the USA". You confirm it... and yet you lash out and say I'm lying, and as you've now just done, that "I've been exposed"! How desperate are you? Why would you hold the USA up to a much longer time horizon (another member already called you on this), but try and focus attention only on OHIP performance for the past two years ? The body of evidence points to a healthcare system in Canada that may be improving, but only after public disgust and demands that changes be made after more than a decade of piss poor performance. Oh, and you got some keen waitlist web sites too...marvelous. and, again, as I suggested, if you'd like to speak of the "Fat Man", don't hesitate to resurrect that MLW "Fat Americans" thread... we can see if there's any change/improvement in dealing with the American Obesity Epidemic. As before, your call. Go right ahead....far fewer Fat Americans are officially sent by their government across the border for bariatric surgery. I wonder why? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 .....as for your reference to, 'MRI units per million population', the latest OECD numbers show Canada has ~doubled your dated reference number... while the U.S. number is now ~10% lower than the dated reference number you provided. Wow, the U.S. is on the down-slide! Cause, after all, you play these indicators off in terms of some 'zero-sum-game' that does nothing but allow you to fuel your false narrative. Think... triage... there's that word again!!! Congratulations......glad to see Canada joining modern developed nations' investment in such things. Not sure why you were stuck in the Stone Age so long, but it was quite a gap for many years. Maybe it is hard to move an MRI lab or CT scanner by dogsled ?! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BubberMiley Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 The wait list thing is way overblown. If it's life-threatening, there is no wait list. If not, it's usually no big deal anyway. My elderly mother didn't have to wait more than four months before she was scheduled to get a new knee. Then she chickened out and didn't show up. When she finally decided to go forward and do it, it was done within two weeks. The system works fine, but there are many who try to make it seem bad because they know it's better than what they have, and they just can't accept that. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 yes, clearly BM! The concept of triage treatment should not be that difficult for certain MLW members to understand... and acknowledge. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 The wait list thing is way overblown. If it's life-threatening, there is no wait list. If not, it's usually no big deal anyway...... I'm sure you will forgive me if i believe a Supreme Court Justice instead. Was it just a coincidence that wait time metrics were developed and posted on individual province web sites ? Are "wait time" metrics part of the original Health Care Act (1984) ? Who decides how much and how long the suffering in queue will be ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 Thank you.....while I am not a priest, your confession was most timely and appreciated. Good luck with the bum knee and waitlist journey when it happens. We'll leave the light on for you at Mayo.no confession - this is just you continuing your petulant trolling.That's all well and good, but no CommieCare promises were ever made to them.how convenient of you to dismiss hundreds of thousands of Americans (750,000 in 2007) seeking health care outside the U.S., while you play out your nonsense over a minuscule (mice nuts) number of Canadians... now less than 1000 a year in your area of concentrated focus, Ontario.....as were mine.....group hug ? the distinction, which you were not even aware of, is your numbers were application numbers, not approval numbers... in fact, given your date references, they were application numbers that included applications received from non-medical specialists... which no longer occurs in the most recent years since changes were made to who can submit applications. As stated previously, either set of numbers (more so yours) were minuscule! Hug that! Why would you hold the USA up to a much longer time horizon (another member already called you on this), but try and focus attention only on OHIP performance for the past two years ? The body of evidence points to a healthcare system in Canada that may be improving, but only after public disgust and demands that changes be made after more than a decade of piss poor performance. Oh, and you got some keen waitlist web sites too...marvelous. nonsense! I gave you approved figures all the way back to 2007... that is all I have. Your numbers go back 4 years prior to that - but, again, your numbers are not approvals - they are applications. Apples and Oranges! But don't let that stop you from playing up your, 'hold up' persecution card! Go right ahead....far fewer Fat Americans are officially sent by their government across the border for bariatric surgery. I wonder why? oh, do you have a breakdown for those hundreds of thousands of Americans forced to seek healthcare outside the U.S.? How many of those are Fat Americans seeking bariatric surgery relief? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 yes, clearly BM! The concept of triage treatment should not be that difficult for certain MLW members to understand... and acknowledge. Triage is great for the battlefield or ER, but not for an entire nation's health care system !! This would imply scarcity by design. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 no confession - this is just you continuing your petulant trolling. No offense taken....I am in good health and double insured, so I understand your pending frustration. how convenient of you to dismiss hundreds of thousands of Americans (750,000 in 2007) seeking health care outside the U.S., while you play out your nonsense over a minuscule (mice nuts) number of Canadians... now less than 1000 a year in your area of concentrated focus, Ontario. Clearly more than 1,000 per year, and those Americans have no promise from their government for CommieCare financed by taxes. Why do the provinces need to officially avail themselves of provider services in the United States of America ? the distinction, which you were not even aware of, is your numbers were application numbers, not approval numbers... in fact, given your date references, they were application numbers that included applications received from non-medical specialists... which no longer occurs in the most recent years since changes were made to who can submit applications. As stated previously, either set of numbers (more so yours) were minuscule! Hug that! Recent years...of course.....another member already busted you on your original time horizon. Nevertheless, why would so many Canadians even apply for OOC if everything was so ducky back home in Ontariario or other province ? Hmmmmmmmm ??? nonsense! I gave you approved figures all the way back to 2007... that is all I have. Your numbers go back 4 years prior to that - but, again, your numbers are not approvals - they are applications. Apples and Oranges! But don't let that stop you from playing up your, 'hold up' persecution card! Don't pop a vein.....the numbers are what they are. Do they apply for free cars too ? oh, do you have a breakdown for those hundreds of thousands of Americans forced to seek healthcare outside the U.S.? How many of those are Fat Americans seeking bariatric surgery relief? Don't know, but they do not have the promise of CommieCare from Tommy Douglas, nor do they expect it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 Triage is great for the battlefield or ER, but not for an entire nation's health care system !! This would imply scarcity by design. by design? Really?... and what would an example of scarcity within your country's healthcare system be... if not by... design, hey? Like, uhhh, say, your claim that, Obamacare will have no impact, your latest deflection mechanism: NYT - Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen with Health Law The Association of American Medical Colleges estimates that in 2015 the country will have 62,900 fewer doctors than needed. And that number will more than double by 2025, as the expansion of insurance coverage and the aging of baby boomers drive up demand for care. Even without the health care law, the shortfall of doctors in 2025 would still exceed 100,000 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) by design? Really?... and what would an example of scarcity within your country's healthcare system be... if not by... design, hey? Like, uhhh, say, your claim that, Obamacare will have no impact, your latest deflection mechanism: Whatever impact ObamaCare may have does not improve the situation in Canada, and may make it even worse. American providers can make more money on insured Americana and Canadian cash customers compared to bargain contracts from the provinces. Report author Steven Globerman — who is also a professor at the Western Washington University — suggests that Obamacare could lead to healthcare service scarcity because of greater demand and because lower payments to service providers could encourage consolidation in the sector. Globerman says longer wait times in the U.S. invariably mean longer wait times in Canada. ...Canadian health care providers also benefit by waiting until new procedures and techniques are proven effective in the United States before adopting them in Canada. The ability of the Canadian sector to acquire technology and knowledge from the United States reduces required Canadian investment in expensive research and development, clinical testing, and the like, thereby making state-of-the-art health care services less expensive for Canadians. If the ACA reduces innovation in the United States, other countries will presumably need to spend more on health care innovation." http://ca.news.yahoo...-212419530.html Maybe Canada can teach the U.S. what official government "Wait Time" means. Edited January 31, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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