EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed (full movie)

[betsy]

Looks like it's the norm for the Atheist-Evolutionists to edit their opponents' statements and post them incompletely .......and take them out of context.

Not so surprising! Their atheist-evolutionist scientists make good models, as was shown in the film! Distortions and deceptions are very much rampant, it seems. Sleight of hand is a technique used by a magician to perform his, "magic."

And where do you see magic being performed? In a circus! And that's what's the present day atheist-evolutionists scientists did to science - turned it into a circus!

If they're reduced to that kind of low-blow strategy.....that only means they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel! They cannot sensibly rebutt the argument(s) - and evidence(s) - presented in this topic.

Of course the followers will face the same dilemma as their atheist-evolutionist scientists. If their scientists are stumped....so are they! Who else can they parrot and mimic???

No wonder the Evolutionist camp don't want any public discussion on the theories presented by both camps!

Edited January 12, 2013 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

Let's just hope you're a Sunday Creationist.

[betsy]

cartoons

I've created a thread where you can post your cartoons to your heart's content. Enjoy.

[g_bambino]

DOUBLE STANDARD!

Nope.

[cybercoma]

(Grammatically incorrect) straw man. Nobody has made any claim to know how life began except those who believe a god did it.

[ed.: +]

I doubt she understands at all what you're saying here.

[cybercoma]

Evolution is fact, but has nothing to do with the origin of life. There are several hypotheses for the origin of life; but, you know that already - it has been explained to you many times.

Just out of curiosity.... at what point do you get sick of repeating the same things over and over again without a shred of evidence that the person to whom you are responding has even the faintest understanding of what you're saying?

[DogOnPorch]

God is a concept by which we measure our pain.

---Lennon

[DogOnPorch]

A beautiful Dizygocrinus Montgomeryensis from the Carboniferous...a relative of the Cambrian era's Dinomischus. These no longer exist. No...it isn't a plant...

Dinomischus: Resembling modern flowers, species of the genus Dinomischus populate the ocean floor about 513 million years ago. About four inches tall, Dinomischus was an animal permanently attached to the ocean floor by a stalk. It probably fed by filtering the surrounding seawater for nutrients, and may have created a current to facilitate this. Its mouth and anus were positioned side-by-side.

So what happened? The fossil sample is from Iowa.

[Mighty AC]

Just out of curiosity.... at what point do you get sick of repeating the same things over and over again without a shred of evidence that the person to whom you are responding has even the faintest understanding of what you're saying?

I've felt like Sisyphus for a long time now.

[DogOnPorch]

I've felt like Sisyphus for a long time now.

[Mighty AC]

Lol, nice.

[Mighty AC]

Well that's a start, isn't it? That there is a designer. Now....perhaps they can proceed to find out what or who that Designer is!

Without evidence for a designer all you have is an unsupported hypothesis, not a theory. Do you understand the difference?

We don't know how self replicating life originated on earth but that is just a gap in our knowledge. A gap is not positive evidence for a designer, a leprechaun, a meteor seeding, abiogenesis or anything else; it is simply an unknown for the time being. A gap doesn't lend credibility to any of the many life origin hypotheses, it just means we cannot rule any of them out.

That doesn't mean all hypotheses are equal though; as some have begun to accumulate positive evidence. Abiogensis, is far from proven but we can now demonstrate that nucleic acid precursors can form naturally, in the conditions present on an early earth, from materials that were abundant.

Do you see the difference between a gap and actual positive evidence?

Edited January 14, 2013 by Mighty AC

[DogOnPorch]

Plus, we know a lot more about how stars work and that due to stellar metallicity, it is impossible for Genesis to have occurred as mentioned in the Christian Bible. Want clues to the Universe's origin(s)? Look to globular clusters and galactic cores, etc.

Suspected Population III stars glow in this infrared image from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope. Local stars and various galaxies are greyed out. Pop III stars no longer exist having gone supernovae long ago to form Pop II stars. Our star is a metal rich Pop I star...formed from dying Pop II stars.

[GostHacked]

How life begun. The first link of a very long chain!

The answer is still being sought after.

[GostHacked]

Another irony came to me. The Atheist Evolutionists claim that the ID camp is influenced by religion.

That is because ID is influcenced by religion. ID says there was a designer, some supernatural designer, but they don't want to invoke God because then the scientists would simply stop listening to them.

Science admit they don't have the answer. They came up with all sorts of fiction. Dawkins even went as far as accepting the possibility that space aliens may've been responsible for life on earth. And yet, they wouldn't consider the possibility of a god, or God.

it's not fiction, they are called theories. Some at this time are untestable so not considered fact in any way shape or form. The Theory of Evolution is a work in progress, however many things since Darwin have been proven as correct in the notion of evolution.

Personally there is a better chance that we were seeded here from an alien race compared to a supernatural being that created us. Aliens (whatever they may be) would have to be part of this physical universe. And based on the vastness that is our universe, there has got to be other intelligent life out there. God would have created this whole large universe as our playground for nothing since we can barely get off this rock.

Well, Dawkins and company are influenced by religion! They're open to believe just about anything possible - and yet refuse to consider anything that might have a connection to religion!

They are influenced by religion, no doubt, but not in the way you think.

Betsy, you have managed to troll this subject in no less than 5 different threads. Showing your complete lack of critical thought when it comes to these topics. You simply have no desire to understand or entertain other ideas in order to further discussion.

But I shall pose this question to you again. What if the creationists and the evolutionists are both wrong?

[Guest Manny]

Plus, we know a lot more about how stars work and that due to stellar metallicity, it is impossible for Genesis to have occurred as mentioned in the Christian Bible.

It's also impossible for galaxies to stay together, or for this universe to exist at all according to our understanding of gravity, unless we now invoke a hypothetical particle that cannot be seen or measured. If we do that at least the physics calculations agree with observed reality. So we must say that dark matter exists, despite any tangible evidence. Else, up we all go...

Edited January 14, 2013 by Manny

[DogOnPorch]

There is direct evidence of 'dark matter', however. Whatever it might be. The relatively constant speed from hub to edge in a given spiral galaxy requires there to be MUCH more matter than that which is apparently present via our puny detection methods.

Dark energy is the real puzzler in my view. Is this the 'medium' on which the Universe is expanding on? Are there multiple...perhaps even unlimited dimensions? Past, present and future merely human constructs? These are the things I'd like to know.

Stellar metallicity can't be shrugged-off, however. Our mundane yellowish Population I Type G2V star is a relative baby in this galaxy. Other massive stars in their end times needed to create the elements beyond hydrogen and helium in their nuclear core and then go supernovae in order to make metal rich Pop I stars with solar systems like ours....which...it's turning out...is common rather than rare in gas/dust rich galaxies like the MW.

As for Intelligent Design...you have to ignore a lot of things besides evolution to believe in the instant Earth with instant (non evolving) life. Also, when one actually wraps their wee human brains about where we actually are in the Universe, it gets to be the height of conceit to think we're the be-all end-all in this joint.

Edited January 15, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[Guest Manny]

There is direct evidence of 'dark matter', however. Whatever it might be. The relatively constant speed from hub to edge in a given spiral galaxy requires there to be MUCH more matter than that which is apparently present via our puny detection methods.

Yes I know what you mean. The observation doesn't fit the current model, unless either

- The current model is wrong or,

- Dark matter exists.

Scientists prefer the latter because it means the model is not wrong, only there is more matter than we estimate. But it is interesting that the error in observation is GROSSLY wrong, IE the visible matter would account for only ~ 20% of what is actually there. The rest, 80%, would have to be dark matter.

That's a pretty big error...

But I don't discount the possibility of dark matter. There are alternative theories. However, they involve tweaking the model.

My mind changes on these things from time to time, depends on what has caught my interest. Lately I toy with the concept of black hole cosmology- we are in a giant black hole and accelerating. Hence as we look "outward", everything appears to be expanding.

The consistent point seems to be, don't trust just your eyes. What you see isn't necessarily what you get!

Stellar metallicity can't be shrugged-off, however. Our mundane yellowish Population I Type G2V star is a relative baby in this galaxy. Other massive stars in their end times needed to create the elements beyond hydrogen and helium in their nuclear core and then go supernovae in order to make metal rich Pop I stars with solar systems like ours....which...it's turning out...is common rather than rare in gas/dust rich galaxies like the MW.

Yes that's very interesting stuff. I think you and I have discussed it briefly once before. I am a bit of a backyard Galileo myself, having a small telescope and a webcam.

As for Intelligent Design...you have to ignore a lot of things besides evolution to believe in the instant Earth with instant (non evolving) life. Also, when one actually wraps their wee human brains about where we actually are in the Universe, it gets to be the height of conceit to think we're the be-all end-all in this joint.

Ok. But why can't intelligent design include evolution? In my universe, you do't just snap your fingers and out pops a universe complete with humans beings. If you want to run that experiment, you have to make a big bowl of stew first...

[Guest Manny]

Just out of curiosity.... at what point do you get sick of repeating the same things over and over again without a shred of evidence that the person to whom you are responding has even the faintest understanding of what you're saying?

NEVA

[DogOnPorch]

Yes I know what you mean. The observation doesn't fit the current model, unless either

- The current model is wrong or,

- Dark matter exists.

Indeed...but star systems orbiting near the core singularity reach near 2% the speed of light or something awesome like that. We're not doing anywhere near that! So not a big 'solid' wheel...

Scientists prefer the latter because it means the model is not wrong, only there is more matter than we estimate. But it is interesting that the error in observation is GROSSLY wrong, IE the visible matter would account for only ~ 20% of what is actually there. The rest, 80%, would have to be dark matter.

That's a pretty big error...

And we're only so smart and just learning.

But I don't discount the possibility of dark matter. There are alternative theories. However, they involve tweaking the model.

My mind changes on these things from time to time, depends on what has caught my interest. Lately I toy with the concept of black hole cosmology- we are in a giant black hole and accelerating. Hence as we look "outward", everything appears to be expanding.

The consistent point seems to be, don't trust just your eyes. What you see isn't necessarily what you get!

As we should both know, our eyes are pretty crappy re: bandwidth. They wear out too. Human-centric approaches are expected.

Yes that's very interesting stuff. I think you and I have discussed it briefly once before. I am a bit of a backyard Galileo myself, having a small telescope and a webcam.

Ok. But why can't intelligent design include evolution? In my universe, you do't just snap your fingers and out pops a universe complete with humans beings. If you want to run that experiment, you have to make a big bowl of stew first...

Then you're getting more into the "God as a Watchmaker*" approach to all this which I don't think is what the ID crowd is trying to show. They want Adam riding a dinosaur and humans as God's ultimate response to the Universe. Plus, the "Afterlife" figures big...can't have that existentialist "nothing" waiting on the other end...no reward in that! We desperately do not want to be the mere mote in a god's eye.

* Wind 'er up, let 'er go...

[Guest Manny]

Then you're getting more into the "God as a Watchmaker*" approach to all this which I don't think is what the ID crowd is trying to show. They want Adam riding a dinosaur and humans as God's ultimate response to the Universe.

I do see humans as the most evolved thing there is, as far as we know. Do I believe there could be alien life, smarter than us? Sure hope so...

But if you follow metallicity, it leads to... us. Or Lars Ulrich... but either way, its a superior being!

Plus, the "Afterlife" figures big...can't have that existentialist "nothing" waiting on the other end...no reward in that! We desperately do not want to be the mere mote in a god's eye.

Not much science in that statement to argue about though. There is no empirical answer to it. Like the JB Haldane quote that the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine. Or something like that. We are billions of individual moments of the collapsing wave function. Our lives are like big bang experiences themselves. We are accelerating outwards rapidly- I know my waistline is...

[DogOnPorch]

I do see humans as the most evolved thing there is, as far as we know. Do I believe there could be alien life, smarter than us? Sure hope so...

But if you follow metallicity, it leads to... us. Or Lars Ulrich... but either way, its a superior being!

There will be. Whatever evolves from us...and we're well on our way on some levels. Ecce homo...as Mr. Pilate might say.

But, shear numbers alone give unlimited chances at another Earth-ish planet with smart critters living on it. In our galaxy, the numbers are nearing stupendous. In the Local Group alone there are several trillions of stars. Multitudes of red dwarfs* have been around since the "earlier" Universe and have the ability to burn nearly forever due to their unique way of handling helium.

* the commonest star.

Not much science in that statement to argue about though. There is no empirical answer to it. Like the JB Haldane quote that the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine. Or something like that. We are billions of individual moments of the collapsing wave function. Our lives are like big bang experiences themselves. We are accelerating outwards rapidly- I know my waistline is...

I most certainly can agree that we are part and parcel of the Universe. I think the greatest thing a human can do intellectually is know one's place in the Universe as far as we can determine. What I think is wrong is our human-centric tendency to make ourselves much more important than we actually are outside of our wee planet. Created in God's image...lol. Speaking of waistlines...and vestigial relics.

[Mighty AC]

What I think is wrong is our human-centric tendency to make ourselves much more important than we actually are outside of our wee planet. Created in God's image...lol. Speaking of waistlines...and vestigial relics.

Agreed! Being made of stardust, like everything else, is cool enough for me. Far more satisfying than being the creation of a fairy tale.

[Guest Manny]

Agreed! Being made of stardust, like everything else, is cool enough for me. Far more satisfying than being the creation of a fairy tale.

You can agree with whatever but you cannot prove a damned thing. If I'm to be the defender of science and facts, I'm callin it as I see it. When it comes to creation cospmology, it's fairy tales all around.

[GostHacked]

You can agree with whatever but you cannot prove a damned thing. If I'm to be the defender of science and facts, I'm callin it as I see it. When it comes to creation cospmology, it's fairy tales all around.

You can agree with whatever you want, but in the end your last statement is something we all can agree with.