First nations patiences waning

[Keepitsimple]

They BROKE the story, though. They didn't REPORT it, they got inside information prior to it being published.

They could have spiked it but they made it front page news, so the idea that they `could` play an important part of this story is old news - they made the story.

I agree with you on that. Like I said, we'll see if Power and Politics runs with the story. It would make sense that they invite Charlie Angus back to get his opinion. I think you get my drift - the P & P gang have gone out of there way to say how badly Harper has managed the Spence fiasco. They have made it seem that she will die, etc, etc. These themes have been going on daily since the start of Spence's diet. Anyone looking at the situation KNEW that money was disappearing or at best, been wasted in Attawapiskat. There is now a smoking gun - make that a smoking cannon that with proper journalistic research should be able to be extended to many other reserves. Hey, if you can extend Robocalls from Guelph because there were a handful of alledged calls in other ridings.....why not do some work here. The situation BEGS to be brought to a head so that Canadians and our government can actually HELP the First Nations people who actually need help. Call it Tough Love.

[DogOnPorch]

Not to mention 450,000 a month in welfare payments. What happened to the 325 million on contracts they got from DeBeers but claim to only have made a profit of 100,000 on? Why did they have a housing emergency when they had at least 10 million in investments? Why did they buy a Zamboni for their rink while people froze. Why is the cost of administering their band so high, why are the salaries so high while others have no houses?

All I know is that we weren't invited to this party...lol.

[Michael Hardner]

Not to mention 450,000 a month in welfare payments. What happened to the 325 million on contracts they got from DeBeers but claim to only have made a profit of 100,000 on? Why did they have a housing emergency when they had at least 10 million in investments? Why did they buy a Zamboni for their rink while people froze. Why is the cost of administering their band so high, why are the salaries so high while others have no houses?

Are you really asking ? Doesn't mismanagement (at the least) seem likely to you ?

[Michael Hardner]

the P & P gang have gone out of there way to say how badly Harper has managed the Spence fiasco.

There seems to be a real problem with people on this board separating politics from wrong & right. It's entirely possible that Harper has been doing the right thing - and it seems to me that many of the examples show good things he's done - while mismanaging the politics. I don't know the show but 'Politics' is in the title.

And Harper isn't as good at politics as he could be.

[DogOnPorch]

Are you really asking ? Doesn't mismanagement (at the least) seem likely to you ?

Losing track of $5000 is "mismanagement". Losing $100s of millions is known as theft.

[Canuckistani]

Are you really asking ? Doesn't mismanagement (at the least) seem likely to you ?

Well yes. Just with all the numbers thrown around, people focus only on say the fed gov contribution. There have been huge inflows of money into this reserve, from many sources. Yet, people live in shacks and are freezing. Time for the govt to either take over running the band, or tell them to solve their own problems, not keep giving them more money.

[Michael Hardner]

Losing track of $5000 is "mismanagement". Losing $100s of millions is known as theft.

They didn't lose $100s of millions, but... mismanagement, gross mismangement, theft... it doesn't matter. You're as likely to get these people to go to jail as you are the Wall Street bailout people. Focus on making the money work for the people, and that will address the discontent. The urge to punish should be put aside.

[Michael Hardner]

Time for the govt to either take over running the band, or tell them to solve their own problems, not keep giving them more money.

Ah yes. The government. They're great at running things, right ? Anyway, they tried that and the court said no. Next idea.

[Canuckistani]

They didn't lose $100s of millions, but... mismanagement, gross mismangement, theft... it doesn't matter. You're as likely to get these people to go to jail as you are the Wall Street bailout people. Focus on making the money work for the people, and that will address the discontent. The urge to punish should be put aside.

Don't agree with that. I want Walls street to go to jail, I want the laws of Canada upheld as well. No more Caledonias. It's not about punishment but upholding the rule of law, instead of racist "they don't know any better and need special treatment." We don't send white collar criminals to jail for a long time anyway, but at least it would put an end to the current Attawaspikat govt.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Canuckistani

[Michael Hardner]

Don't agree with that. I want Walls street to go to jail,

Well, I think you should get used to not getting what you want in this case. I remember a guy where I worked saying that Rene Levesque should be put on trial for treason. I don't doubt that the government of Canada could have done it - if the politics were there to support it.

[Smallc]

This is a complete joke. By comparison the government spend $7,885 (according to expenditure of 2012 federal budget) per person in 2012. That's

$448 less then Attawakpiskat reserve and yet they still live in appalling poverty?

Don't forget that the people of Attawapiskat get the benefits of normal federal spending as well. The mine they get is like what the provinces would give a municipality, and is at least as high.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Smallc

[Sleipnir]

Don't forget that the people of Attaeapiskat get the benefits of normal federal spending as well. The mine they get is like what the provinces would give a municipality, and is at least as high.

I had the number wrong it was over $11,000 for Attawapaskit not $8,000 >.>

[Smallc]

Yes, and my point is that thy also get the same $7,885.00 as the rest of us.

[Argus]

KIS - you DO realize that it was the CBC that broke this story don't you ?

Evidently the CBC had a show on this a year ago which was pretty unkind.

I have to say a particular revealing commentary was that people shipped boxes and boxes of stuff to them back when the story was fresh, all sorts of donations. The boxes haven't even been opened because Spence 'couldn't find volunteers' to do it. So it's all just sitting there. These people are living in poverty?

[Rocky Road]

Sense of entitlement is part of the problem.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.defendersoftheland.org/

See this page,

Clayton Thomas-Muller is a member of the Mathias Colomb Cree Nation also known as Pukatawagan in Northern Manitoba, Canada. Based out of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, Clayton is involved in many initiatives to support the building of an inclusive movement for energy and climate justice. He serves on the board of the Global Justice Ecology Project, Canadian based Raven Trust and Navajo Nation based, Black Mesa Water Coalition. He has been recognized by Utne Magazine as one of the top 30 under 30 activists in the United States and as a “Climate Hero 2009” by Yes Magazine. For the last eleven years he has campaigned across Canada, Alaska and the lower 48 states in support of grassroots indigenous communities to defend against the encroachment of the fossil fuel industry. This has included a special focus on the sprawling infrastructure of pipelines, refineries and extraction associated with the Canadian tar sands. Clayton is an organizer, facilitator, public speaker and writer on environmental justice and Indigenous rights.

[Michael Hardner]

Evidently the CBC had a show on this a year ago which was pretty unkind.

I have to say a particular revealing commentary was that people shipped boxes and boxes of stuff to them back when the story was fresh, all sorts of donations. The boxes haven't even been opened because Spence 'couldn't find volunteers' to do it. So it's all just sitting there. These people are living in poverty?

So what's your reaction when you read something like that ? If that factoid is true, then my reaction is that we're dealing with a community that is very sick, that needs help and that can't take care of itself. Maybe other FN people can help them, but they can`t help themselves.

[Canuckistani]

So what's your reaction when you read something like that ? If that factoid is true, then my reaction is that we're dealing with a community that is very sick, that needs help and that can't take care of itself. Maybe other FN people can help them, but they can`t help themselves.

Many sick FN communities like this. If the govt steps in to help them beyond sending more money, look what happens, complaints about it interfering in a sovereign nation.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.defendersoftheland.org/

See this page,

Rocky - you are adding nothing to the discussion by merely adding a link to a page - please see the rules & guidelines.

[Michael Hardner]

Many sick FN communities like this. If the govt steps in to help them beyond sending more money, look what happens, complaints about it interfering in a sovereign nation.

It was more than that, it was a Supreme Court decision that reversed the decision - and they wouldn't have done so it seems if the Government had proved mismanagement. I for one don`t trust government to take over from the current leadership if they`re not even able to prove mismanagement.

[Smallc]

The court should have waited for the audit. Wasn't it the federal court?

[Michael Hardner]

The court should have waited for the audit. Wasn't it the federal court?

Yes, it was federal court. The government made its case - whether or not they had an audit. Imagine all of this overwhelming evidence and they were still unable to prove mismanagement. Does it make you wonder if maybe putting these peoples' lives in the hands of the same bureaucracy is a bad idea ?

They made their move and this is what happened. Let's see the next trick up their sleeve.

[DogOnPorch]

They didn't lose $100s of millions, but... mismanagement, gross mismangement, theft... it doesn't matter. You're as likely to get these people to go to jail as you are the Wall Street bailout people. Focus on making the money work for the people, and that will address the discontent. The urge to punish should be put aside.

Oh yeah? $100 million + other millions solves big city problems. Where is the results of such a huge pay-out? In a community of 1200-1500, it should be rather obvious. A new runway capable of handling Air Bus 380s? Anyways...not seeing it.

[Argus]

So what's your reaction when you read something like that ? If that factoid is true, then my reaction is that we're dealing with a community that is very sick, that needs help and that can't take care of itself. Maybe other FN people can help them, but they can`t help themselves.

It is pretty damned clear there is no earthly reason for these people to be sitting out there in the middle of nowhere. There are no jobs, there never will be. It costs a fortune to ship everything up to them. They need to be moved. Maybe if some of these reserves were amalgamated into some kind of large native run town (or small city) somewhere the government could establish an economic zone which would encourage the startup of businesses and industry... Barring that, they need to be moved into the cities and integrated like all the other cultures who have come to Canada over the past century or two.

[Keepitsimple]

I don't know the show but 'Politics' is in the title.

And Harper isn't as good at politics as he could be.

Try watching it for a few days (CBC's Power & Politics with Evan Solomon) at 5:00 EST - or view it from their website. Each and every day, the show is set up to bash the Feds for one thing or another.....if you have a thick skin it can almost be humerous but much of their criticism is a knock against Canada - and that's what I detest. They've been cheerleaders for Charlie Angus and Miss Spendsalot throughout this farce. We'll see how they handle it but if they follow their usual pattern, they'll take the apologist route.