First nations patiences waning

[DogOnPorch]

When "Idle no More" is completely "Idle no-where"... I dont see what the issue is with forcing the pipline debate in the westward direction...

Because you'd have to also deal with the likes of me...and perhaps kimmy. She's armed...lol.

[Peanutbutter]

Until a Supertanker spills its load.

How often does this happen?

The oil is being pumped out and will be sold nothing u can do to stop it.

[g_bambino]

The government knew that children were dying from crowding/ disease ... and did nothing.

The government didn't do nothing. A department issued instructions to quarantine the infected.

The Potlatch Ban occurred in 1885, [1] when the government of the Dominion of Canada passed legislation outlawing the Native Canadian potlatch ceremony.

I see; thank you. However, I don't see anywhere in there any evidence of the banning of ceremonies or that the ban cited was in any way a part of a plan to erradicate aboriginal cultures for the sake of it.

[DogOnPorch]

How often does this happen?

The oil is being pumped out and will be sold nothing u can do to stop it.

You're welcome to try.

[jacee]

The government didn't do nothing. A department issued instructions to quarantine the infected.

Cite?

A department informed the political level.

Was policy or funding provided to do so?

I see; thank you. However, I don't see anywhere in there any evidence of the banning of ceremonies or that the ban cited was in any way a part of a plan to erradicate aboriginal cultures for the sake of it.

I'm not going to keep quoting it.

Read the wikilink pls.

Giving things away (potlatch) wasn't considered compatible with capitalism.

I don't think anyone could seriously say that we haven't tried to eradicate Indigenous cultures.

[g_bambino]

Is better than manifest destiny...

Which has zilch to do with us or the romanticism of the noble savage.

[g_bambino]

Cite?

You.

Read the wikilink pls.

Did.

I don't think anyone could seriously say that we haven't tried to eradicate Indigenous cultures.

I don't think anyone could seriously say that there was an effort to erradicate every trace of indiginous cultures and that what was targeted was targeted merely for the fun of it. As I said, I believe the authorities at the time believed they were doing the aboriginals a service.

[Peanutbutter]

You're welcome to try.

Money will always win out over youthful naive idealism.

[jacee]

You.

Didn't matter what the medical officer recommended: The government failed to implement quarantine in the residential schools for forty years after it was mandatory everywhere else.

I don't think anyone could seriously say that there was an effort to erradicate every trace of indiginous cultures

What part(s) do you think they wanted them to keep?

Spiritual? social? economic? political? Family? Community? Tribal system? Nations? Clans? Medicines?

Feathers and beads and baskets?

Not dances. .. that was outlawed with potlatch.

and that what was targeted was targeted merely for the fun of it.

What does that have to do with anything?

As I said, I believe the authorities at the time believed they were doing the aboriginals a service.

By exposing children to deadly disease?

Now we know better.

Edited February 26, 2013 by jacee

[DogOnPorch]

Money will always win out over youthful naive idealism.

Sure...but, as I mentioned, BC takes all the risks and sees little of the money. You might recall the two Premiers duking it out over the pipeline. Besides, shipping our raw materials to such a low-life thieving nation as Communist China is just plain dumb.

[DogOnPorch]

Cite?

A department informed the political level.

Was policy or funding provided to do so?

I'm not going to keep quoting it.

Read the wikilink pls.

Giving things away (potlatch) wasn't considered compatible with capitalism.

I don't think anyone could seriously say that we haven't tried to eradicate Indigenous cultures.

Actually, it was rank and file Natives starving during the winter while the chiefs ate that caused concern over such practices. However, it's now a yearly event in my city. Big party....music...the works.

[g_bambino]

Didn't matter what the medical officer recommended: The government failed to implement quarantine in the residential schools for forty years after it was mandatory everywhere else.

Well, then, this seems to revolve around what one means by "government". The medical officer was a part of the larger government bureaucracy, in the Department of Indian Affairs; you seem to be speaking specifically about the Crown-in-Council. You weren't clear about that before. Even so, and even if we rely solely on the one source you provided, how is that proof of institutional maliciousness, and not simply mismanagement? The 1922 article you linked to referred only to a report on 35 schools in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in 1909 (attended by only 30% of the school-age population, who mostly contracted TB at home, not at school), out of hundreds of schools all across the country; there's nothing to indicate what was taking place at other residential schools or at non-residential schools at the same time.

Not dances. .. that was outlawed with potlatch.

No, just the Potlatch ceremony.

By exposing children to deadly disease?

No.

[jacee]

Well, then, this seems to revolve around what one means by "government". The medical officer was a part of the larger government bureaucracy, in the Department of Indian Affairs; you seem to be speaking specifically about the Crown-in-Council. You weren't clear about that before. Even so, and even if we rely solely on the one source you provided, how is that proof of institutional maliciousness, and not simply mismanagement? The 1922 article you linked to referred only to a report on 35 schools in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in 1909 (attended by only 30% of the school-age population, who mostly contracted TB at home, not at school), out of hundreds of schools all across the country; there's nothing to indicate what was taking place at other residential schools or at non-residential schools at the same time.

Did you find evidence that the government mandated isolation in the 'Indian' residential schools as elsewhere? Edited February 26, 2013 by jacee

[shortlived]

Did you find evidence that the government mandated isolation in the 'Indian' residential schools as elsewhere?

OK

yes the government mandated that kids be taken away from their families even against their parents wishes, further they were penalized if they did not allow it.

The program has many negative effects including spreading TB into various remote locations.... it was bad, yes the government knew of the issues and continued the program.. there were reports many times that fudged the situation.

the program was unethical by todays standards and improperly administered with the intention none other than to force assimilation and turn natives into unskilled labourers.

They were treated the same way or worse than delinquents and youth criminals for being aboriginal.

Meanwhile elites sent their kids to boarding schools trained them to be professionals... see the difference, it was just racial and class warfare so prevalent of that misguided era in Canadian history.

It wasn't sending them off to school, it was sending them off to a prison labour camp.

Their culture wasn't broken.

Mandatory schooling has improved a bit but it is still representative of government forcing a staus quo that will force people to be indoctrinated rather than free to live from the land. Is the sole reason is so that they can take advantage of people by providing them only enough information to be manipulated? It is all about social control.

Edited February 26, 2013 by shortlived

[DogOnPorch]

Keep in mind that 'traditional native ways' could mean murdering settlers/miners/loggers/trappers/etc. At least it was in B.C. Generally, not part of proper British society. That couldn't be allowed to continue under any scenario.

[WIP]

WIP- I don't care if we're extinct in a few centuries or not, I'll be dead so it won't matter much to me. I honestly really don't care about that at all.

Then don't pontificate on any moral issues whatsoever, if you're not going to recognize the rights of future generations. It's bad enough that our children are mostly growing up in an era of diminishing expectations, but add to that the declines will continue until nothing is left because immediate pleasure was considered more important than long term needs.

[jacee]

Bringing child welfare issues up to date ...

Ottawas aboriginal child-welfare policies slammed at human rights hearing

Shawn Atleo, the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, was one of the first people Monday to testify at a hearing before the Canadian Human Rights Commission. The hearing will spend the next 14 weeks examining whether Ottawa is treating native children unfairly.

Studies have shown that the provinces provide welfare to other Canadian children at rates that are 22 per cent higher than the amount given by the federal government to first nations children, said Mr. Atleo. Ottawa is responsible for social assistance on reserves where the levels of poverty and the associated problems are higher than most other places in Canada.

Social workers must do everything they can to keep children in their homes when families are going through a crisis, Mr. Atleo told the hearing. But, he said, there is not enough money to pay for the services that would allow first nations children to remain with their families.

As a result, Mr. Atleo said in a telephone interview with The Globe and Mail, the numbers of children from reserves in foster care estimated at 27,000 in 2006 has surpassed the number of children who were being forcibly removed from their families during the height of the residential school era. They are being deprived of their language, their culture and the places they call home, he said.

...

The federal government has spent years and millions of dollars fighting the human rights complaint about the funding disparity that was filed in 2007 by the AFN and the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada. Ottawa says it is unfair to compare the federal and provincial welfare systems a case it will continue to make at a separate hearing next week before the Federal Court of Appeal.

Edited February 26, 2013 by jacee

[DogOnPorch]

the provinces provide welfare to other Canadian children at rates that are 22 per cent higher

So who is getting the money? Who are these Canadian children mentioned in 'studies'?

[Peanutbutter]

Why can't fn people get jobs instead of relying on handouts ?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Peanutbutter

[DFCaper]

Despite believing that making them equal is what NEEDS to be the long term solution, it is wrong to underfund the children. I'd be shocked to hear that we sufficiently funding and managing child welfare at the provincial level, so under funding below THAT level is unacceptible. I would also be surprised if the feds could be nearly as capable of delivering an effective system, as it is not a normal responsibility of theirs.

Just another example why we need to stop the DNA distinctions.... We need to stop having a goal of having them at a different level from the rest of society.

People tend to not want to work for people to make them superior to them. As long as the goal is to treat them differently, don't be surprised that different is worst.

Edited February 26, 2013 by DFCaper

[g_bambino]

Did you find evidence that the government mandated isolation in the 'Indian' residential schools as elsewhere?

Did you find evidence it didn't? Did you find evidence of what happened at other non-native schools? Methinks your making some big leaps to the conclusions you want.

[g_bambino]

So who is getting the money? Who are these Canadian children mentioned in 'studies'?

I thought First Nations wanted to govern themselves; they receive payments from the federal Crown-in-Council and spend it as the band council sees fit.

[DogOnPorch]

I thought First Nations wanted to govern themselves; they receive payments from the federal Crown-in-Council and spend it as the band council sees fit.

I suppose that was the plan. I'd hazard that they account for the vast majority of Welfare payments in my city, however.

[g_bambino]

I suppose that was the plan. I'd hazard that they account for the vast majority of Welfare payments in my city, however.

Well, I meant on reserve, under band government, as that's what jacee's article focuses on.

[ed.: +]

Edited February 26, 2013 by g_bambino

[DogOnPorch]

Well, I meant on reserve, under band government, as that's what jacee's article focuses on.

[ed.: +]

I doubt there's really that much difference. There's no government body that actually polices the who is living where situation around these parts. Nobody is forced onto any reserve around here in order to get bucks.