Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) He had it before but hopefully his ideas about treating Ontarians like adults will further separate him from the proliferation of nannystatism we saw from Daddy Dalton. http://www.thestar.c...-tim-hudak-says A Progressive Conservative government would finally allow booze to be sold in corner stores and grocery stores, Tory Leader Tim Hudak promised Tuesday. Hudak told reporters it is time the government started treating Ontarians like adults. His announcement coincided with a survey paid for by independent store keepers that says most Ontarians agree. Ontarians are way ahead of the government when it comes to saying it is “high time” the Beer Store and LCBO lose their monopolies on booze sales, he said. Hudak stopped short of saying he would sell the LCBO but said under a Tory government no more agency outlets would be built. The LCBO sucks and blows at the same time. It's either about Social Responsibility or Revenue. If you want to control the price people pay for alcohol that's fine, but it doesn't mean other retailers can't sell it. Convenience stores can sell Tobacco. A product that has to have gross pictures on the packaging. At the same time as preaching social responsibility the LBCO advertises constantly making their product seem glamourous and appealing. You walk in and you get people promoting products and giving free samples. So I call BS on trying to minimize alcoholism. It's all about more revenue, not social responsibility. Edited December 4, 2012 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 He better make/take a standon other issues if he wants to get elected. Hot Damn, I would have thunk a senior sanitary employee would have done better against that polecat political sidewindin, liar we have RE elected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) He better make/take a standon other issues if he wants to get elected. Hot Damn, I would have thunk a senior sanitary employee would have done better against that polecat political sidewindin, liar we have RE elected! His platform last time was weak. It was a lot like McGuinty's with some minor tweaks. He's going to great lengths to put forward different ideas that aren't very liberal at all. At this point, it's either Hudak or Horvath. If whoever the Libs elect win the next election, I will have lost all faith in this province. How can you keep going back to a party that's abused their power they've been given so bad. They had the first Leadership debate on the weekend and all the candidates were distancing themselves from McGuinty's policies. Edited December 4, 2012 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Outside of increasing the availability, what's the upside here? A privatized delivery model didn't really work in Alberta except to push money into the hands of a few well-connected private retail operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Outside of increasing the availability, what's the upside here? A privatized delivery model didn't really work in Alberta except to push money into the hands of a few well-connected private retail operations. How did it not work in Alberta? It works in Quebec fine. Quebec is an otherwise socialist paradise. If we're talking about tax revenue, increasing availability will increase tax revenue. Now some would argue that would increase alcoholism but then why the EFF does the Lickbo advertise? Of course they want people to drink more, they just want them to pay outrageous prices. Convenience stores can already sell controlled tobacco. If used properly that product will kill you. You're not allowed to advertise tobacco products in Canada but I still get plastered with Alcohol advertising all the time. The LCBO Christmas ads started this week: "Santa Baby, please come and pay outrageous prices for specialty beer!" Edited December 4, 2012 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) How did it not work in Alberta? It works in Quebec fine. Quebec is an otherwise socialist paradise. Quebec has a virtual government monopoly. Yeah, the deps can sell beer and wine, but you can't open a liquor store in Quebec to compete with SAQ. As for Alberta, prices are as high as anywhere, while the government takes in less from taxes. Again, outside of increasing the availability of booze, there's no consumer benefit there. When I lived in Edmonton, there was literally a liquor store on every block along Jasper Ave. Totally uneccesary since they all offered the same products at the same prices. If we're talking about tax revenue, increasing availability will increase tax revenue. It didn't in Alberta. Part of the model there was they changed the way booze is taxed to a flat tax system. As a result, revenues stagnated. Now some would argue that would increase alcoholism but then why the EFF does the Lickbo advertise? Of course they want people to drink more, they just want them to pay outrageous prices. You're dreaming if you think prices will go down under a private model. Edited December 4, 2012 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 The LCBO has a set markup. So I'm hoping that even if there's a minimum price, some of the nicer alcohol won't be as offensively market up. $40 plus for a case of Keith's is pretty brutal. I also don't see how making the product more widely available will reduce tax revenue. I don't mind Hard Liqour being sold at a proper Liqour Store but there's no reason why Beer and Wine can't be sold in a corner store, which is what's being proposed here. Again why aren't there Tobacco control boards? Not everything has to be about the government's bottom line, there's something to be said about not being treated like a child having to go to a specific at certain hours of the day to buy beer. It's not a big issue, but why is Ontario the only place I've ever been where you can't buy beer wherever you want? Are the rates of Alcoholism less because of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 FTR: the social aspect doesn't bother me. I agree the current set up is hyper hypocritical. I'm all for reforming the LCBO and increasing availability, but not outright privatization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 FTR: the social aspect doesn't bother me. I agree the current set up is hyper hypocritical. I'm all for reforming the LCBO and increasing availability, but not outright privatization. Hudak didn't say that, I'm sure there'll still be a place for the LCBO. It's simply allowing corner stores to sell beer and wine like in Quebec. I actually often go to the LickBo for Wine over those Grocery Store Wine Racks because they do have a better selection. But it's nice to have the option either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) The LCBO has a set markup. So I'm hoping that even if there's a minimum price, some of the nicer alcohol won't be as offensively market up. You can be very certain that any drop in the markup on the LCBO end will be taken up by a bigger take for the retailer. $40 plus for a case of Keith's is pretty brutal Wait I thought we were talking about "nicer alcohol?" I also don't see how making the product more widely available will reduce tax revenue. Depends on the model, like I said. I don't mind Hard Liqour being sold at a proper Liqour Store but there's no reason why Beer and Wine can't be sold in a corner store, which is what's being proposed here. Again why aren't there Tobacco control boards? Agreed. Not everything has to be about the government's bottom line, there's something to be said about not being treated like a child having to go to a specific at certain hours of the day to buy beer. The government is pretty married to the LCBO's revenues. I bet even Tim Whodat would be hard pressed to kick the habit if he was in power. But yes, more selection would be good. I'd start by ending the Beer Store's grip. It's not a big issue, but why is Ontario the only place I've ever been where you can't buy beer wherever you want? Are the rates of Alcoholism less because of it? Quebec and Newfoundland are the only places in Canada you can buy beer in the grocery/corner store. Edited December 4, 2012 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 The Beer Store is a bigger joke than the LCBO in some ways. At least the LCBO is a nice place to shop. The Beer Store is like an old Consumer Distributing Store where you have to look up at a board and your case of beer comes out on a conveyer belt. Only the big name brands are for display. Well not big name but brands owned by the big brewers. I still want to smack people walking out of the Beer Store with a case of Budweiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 The Beer Store is a bigger joke than the LCBO in some ways. At least the LCBO is a nice place to shop. The Beer Store is like an old Consumer Distributing Store where you have to look up at a board and your case of beer comes out on a conveyer belt. Only the big name brands are for display. Well not big name but brands owned by the big brewers. I still want to smack people walking out of the Beer Store with a case of Budweiser. Yep. Owned by huge multinationals that have the temerity to charge other brewers to sell their products at TBS. I do, however, have a soft spot for the shopping experience, though. It's so unabashedly old school to this westerner: I always expect the staff to be wearing hockey jackets and smoking DuMauriers while they fling two-fours on the conveyor belt. And yes, Bud drinkers should be flogged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Son Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 He had it before If it was the NDP, Liberals or Greens that was proposing this instead of the PCs would they get your vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'm totallly against this. The young people now can't hold their booze now and Hudak wants to let the corner store, which will probably look like the ones in the US, bars on the windows, big lites advertising sell booze. There's nothing wrong with the way things are, it just Hudak has to find something to get more votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) I'm totallly against this. The young people now can't hold their booze now and Hudak wants to let the corner store, which will probably look like the ones in the US, bars on the windows, big lites advertising sell booze. There's nothing wrong with the way things are, it just Hudak has to find something to get more votes. Except it treats alcohol like children. Do you find smoking to be a harmful act that children shouldn't participate in? You should be ID'd to get tobacco just like you should be ID'd to get alcohol. Convenience Stores are pretty much the only place you can get cigarettes. What's the diff? Why are LickBo employees more reliable to ensure underage people don't get alcohol than convenience store owners? Edited December 4, 2012 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 If it was the NDP, Liberals or Greens that was proposing this instead of the PCs would they get your vote? I wouldn't vote for the Liberalsbecause they're a horrible, evil party. The Greens aren't a big player in Ontario yet, so who cares. I doubt the NDP would support imposing less regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 A vote for Hudak will be a vote for a Republican clone like Harper! Ontarians have traditionally refrained from having the same party in Queens Park that occupies Ottawa, and I hope we follow that course now.....and cheap booze does not influence my vote anyway, since I don't drink alcohol. I wonder why 'good christians' like Tim Hudak are so concerned about providing cheap liquor for consumers! My guess is that it has more to do with the cronyism associated with each and every privatization scheme of public services, than it does with providing any benefits for the consumer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) A vote for Hudak will be a vote for a Republican clone like Harper! Ontarians have traditionally refrained from having the same party in Queens Park that occupies Ottawa, and I hope we follow that course now.....and cheap booze does not influence my vote anyway, since I don't drink alcohol. I wonder why 'good christians' like Tim Hudak are so concerned about providing cheap liquor for consumers! My guess is that it has more to do with the cronyism associated with each and every privatization scheme of public services, than it does with providing any benefits for the consumer! You know Ontario is overwhelmingly represented by CPC MPs. Comparing Harper American Republicans is as hilarious as if I was to compare Obama to the NDP. And BTW if you don't drink why should your opinion matter regarding how people obtain their alcohol? Oh and I'm assuming you support a Tobacco Control Board as well correct? Edited December 4, 2012 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFCaper Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I think they should allow beer and wine at corner stores as well. With the smoking habit disappearing, the corner stores need something to have people come in. I am not sure why it is government business to be in retail. Having said that, the LCBO does have nice stores. Too bad we tax the hell out of booze. I travel enough to the US, that I rarely need to shop there. I paid $16.50 for a 24 of Keith cans at the Buffalo crossing a few weeks ago.... Not hard to see where the $billions are coming from... I don't think that going private will change anything for access for minors. I used to be too young to drive, but was able to buy booze at a government store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Important question raised by this thread: why do people drink Keith's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I doubt the NDP would support imposing less regulation. I wouldn't be so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I wonder why 'good christians' like Tim Hudak are so concerned about providing cheap liquor for consumers! My guess is that it has more to do with the cronyism associated with each and every privatization scheme of public services, than it does with providing any benefits for the consumer! Who said anything about "cheap booze" or privatization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Important question raised by this thread: why do people drink Keith's? More of a Stella guy I guess. Sheesh! Not everyone needs Microbrew Ales. Some people like domestic largers. Edited December 4, 2012 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 More of a Stella guy I guess. Sheesh! Not everyone needs Microbrew Ales. Some people like domestic largers. Stella is mass market rubbish in a fancy bottle. i appreciate a good domestic lager as much as anyone. Keith's ain't it. I'd honestly rather drink 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I remember when you had to fill out and order form in the LCBO stores, name, addy and such. I knew a guy put his dog name on every time. Who looked, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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