Solution for lasting peace in the Middle East

Hudson Jones · November 26, 2012

negotiate with Hamas and they will twist this in to a victory, negotiate with moderates can and will bring peace while discrediting Hamas and their actions.

Hamas was already negotiated with and the result was a ceasefire. So that's a good sign. Hamas has been able to control the other militant groups when pressed hard enough, like this time for example.

Negotiating with only Fatah and trying to side-step Hamas will not work. Unfortunately, Hamas cannot be taken out of the equation since they were elected by Palestinians and they are popular amongst them. Their militant wing aside, their social programs are quite popular and are favoured over Fatah's. Fatah is seen as being corrupt and somewhat useless. The Arab league is also talking to Hamas.

This is actually the perfect time to win Hamas over. Syria is no longer a player and Iran is isolated. Countries like Qatar, Egypt and Jordan all want a solution and they realize that the solution will have to include Hamas. They also realize that Hamas needs to change some of its ways for this work.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

No, Palestinians are not living in one of the most impoverished area's of the world. Try Sub-Saharan Africa, or parts of Asia, or even "Indian reserves" in North America.

One of the most, not the most...

Hasn't worked in the past. How about recognizing the right for Israel to even exist?

Deal with those groups that are moderates, and that recognize Israel's right to exist. The point is for everyone to get a fair deal, the Palestinians are allowed to form their own country, Israel gets the live in peace and everyone else minds their own business.

They have been lashing out for over 50 years. How's that working for them?

And Israel has been fighting them for the same amount of time, how is that working out for them?

Albert Einstein

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

Give the Palestinians a reason to fight, and let them fight those who want to bring them back to this position. Show them that negotiation is the way to go and rein in the Israeli extremest.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Signals.Cpl

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

Actually, if terrorists get a hold of Syria's VX, it's-a-gonna-be alla our problem.

And if that comes to pass we will deal with it, at this moment the threat of those weapons should not derail any potential peace solution.

Hudson Jones · November 26, 2012

Here is the Hamas leader talking about 1967 border, recognition of Israel and the right of return, their relationship with Iran and their stance on terrorism:

Edited November 26, 2012 by Hudson Jones

DogOnPorch · November 26, 2012

And if that comes to pass we will deal with it, at this moment the threat of those weapons should not derail any potential peace solution.

You're familiar with this stuff? It's not the poof it's gone sort of chemical weapon. VX is an area denial weapon. Once deployed, the target area gets farked for decades.

dre · November 26, 2012

Man, Signals specifically asked for potential solutions, and you guys are just filling up the thread with the same brain-dead prattle you jam all the other threads up with.

DogOnPorch · November 26, 2012

Says a lot about solutions.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

Hamas was already negotiated with and the result was a ceasefire. So that's a good sign. Hamas has been able to control the other militant groups when pressed hard enough, like this time for example.

They have been able to control them just barely and that would last only as long as Hamas says they are determined to destroy Israel, the second they start talking about longterm peace with them someone else steps in and continues the "struggle".

Negotiating with only Fatah and trying to side-step Hamas will not work.

If done right Fatah and the West Bank could serve as an example to the Gaza Strip and with proper motivation from Israel it could lead to the palestinians themselves removing Hamas.

Unfortunately, Hamas cannot be taken out of the equation since they were elected by Palestinians and they are popular amongst them.

Negotiate with the west bank, show the people in Gaza that your choices carry consequences, vote moderate and negotiate with us and you gain a lot, vote extremist and you watch as the west bank progresses and gaza stays at the same level.

Their militant wing aside, their social programs are quite popular and are favoured over Fatah's.

Great, and when Fatah shows results and funds and investments start flowing in to the West Bank what happens then? Better services, better opportunity and a much higher quality of life. I think the people of Gaza can put 2+2 together or they don't deserve a better life style.

Fatah is seen as being corrupt and somewhat useless.

And Hamas can be seen as a counter productive organization, if Israel rewards negotiations and moderate groups then Hamas will benefit no one and will be useless. Hamas is strong only as far as there is a conflict, no conflict no Hamas.

The Arab league is also talking to Hamas.

So? Just because the Arab League is talking to them does not mean its the right thing to do.

This is actually the perfect time to win Hamas over.

You can't have peace with Hamas, the second they say we support Israel's right to exist and we want peace is the second that organization dies as its foot soldiers will join other groups that favour their current tactics. Get the people on your side and you win, win over Hamas and when they are overthrown you have the same problem with a different name.

Syria is no longer a player and Iran is isolated.

Iran might be Isolated, but they still play a major role in this as it benefits them to have an ongoing war in the region.

Countries like Qatar, Egypt and Jordan all want a solution and they realize that the solution will have to include Hamas.

The solution needs to include the Moderate Palestinians not the extremists who benefit from continuation of the conflict.

They also realize that Hamas needs to change some of its ways for this work.

They need to change the fundamental basis of their organization which will not last long as I mentioned there are Terrorist groups waiting on the sidelines for any opportunity to pounce on them and take over.

dre · November 26, 2012

I agree 100% with that, Israel needs to make the first move, and this seems like the perfect way to do so.

I would also use the fact that the fledgling state will need a lot of foreign aid, to make that the whole thing conditional on Israels security concerns being dealt with effectively. Probably some kind of DMZ along the border with about a zillion landmines would be good, and an international force with a mandate to prevent further clashes.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

You're familiar with this stuff? It's not the poof it's gone sort of chemical weapon. VX is an area denial weapon. Once deployed, the target area gets farked for decades.

So what is the solution? Stop any negotiations and hope that Syria keeps the weapons contained? In the event becomes a threat then this will be dealt with accordingly in the mean time life goes on and solutions for the problems we face need to be found.

Hudson Jones · November 26, 2012

They have been able to control them just barely and that would last only as long as Hamas says they are determined to destroy Israel, the second they start talking about longterm peace with them someone else steps in and continues the "struggle".

If done right Fatah and the West Bank could serve as an example to the Gaza Strip and with proper motivation from Israel it could lead to the palestinians themselves removing Hamas.

Negotiate with the west bank, show the people in Gaza that your choices carry consequences, vote moderate and negotiate with us and you gain a lot, vote extremist and you watch as the west bank progresses and gaza stays at the same level.

Great, and when Fatah shows results and funds and investments start flowing in to the West Bank what happens then? Better services, better opportunity and a much higher quality of life. I think the people of Gaza can put 2+2 together or they don't deserve a better life style.

And Hamas can be seen as a counter productive organization, if Israel rewards negotiations and moderate groups then Hamas will benefit no one and will be useless. Hamas is strong only as far as there is a conflict, no conflict no Hamas.

So? Just because the Arab League is talking to them does not mean its the right thing to do.

You can't have peace with Hamas, the second they say we support Israel's right to exist and we want peace is the second that organization dies as its foot soldiers will join other groups that favour their current tactics. Get the people on your side and you win, win over Hamas and when they are overthrown you have the same problem with a different name.

Iran might be Isolated, but they still play a major role in this as it benefits them to have an ongoing war in the region.

The solution needs to include the Moderate Palestinians not the extremists who benefit from continuation of the conflict.

They need to change the fundamental basis of their organization which will not last long as I mentioned there are Terrorist groups waiting on the sidelines for any opportunity to pounce on them and take over.

I am curious to see what you think after watching the interview with the Hamas leader.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Hudson Jones

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

I would also use the fact that the fledgling state will need a lot of foreign aid, to make that the whole thing conditional on Israels security concerns being dealt with effectively. Probably some kind of DMZ along the border with about a zillion landmines would be good, and an international force with a mandate to prevent further clashes.

Security Forces from the West Bank with light military support from an Arab Nation to help deal with Hamas solves the problem. If Egypt and Israel Open the flow of good to Gaza but shut down all smuggling of weapons in it should be relatively easy.

dre · November 26, 2012

They have been able to control them just barely and that would last only as long as Hamas says they are determined to destroy Israel, the second they start talking about longterm peace with them someone else steps in and continues the "struggle".

If done right Fatah and the West Bank could serve as an example to the Gaza Strip and with proper motivation from Israel it could lead to the palestinians themselves removing Hamas.

Negotiate with the west bank, show the people in Gaza that your choices carry consequences, vote moderate and negotiate with us and you gain a lot, vote extremist and you watch as the west bank progresses and gaza stays at the same level.

Great, and when Fatah shows results and funds and investments start flowing in to the West Bank what happens then? Better services, better opportunity and a much higher quality of life. I think the people of Gaza can put 2+2 together or they don't deserve a better life style.

And Hamas can be seen as a counter productive organization, if Israel rewards negotiations and moderate groups then Hamas will benefit no one and will be useless. Hamas is strong only as far as there is a conflict, no conflict no Hamas.

So? Just because the Arab League is talking to them does not mean its the right thing to do.

You can't have peace with Hamas, the second they say we support Israel's right to exist and we want peace is the second that organization dies as its foot soldiers will join other groups that favour their current tactics. Get the people on your side and you win, win over Hamas and when they are overthrown you have the same problem with a different name.

Iran might be Isolated, but they still play a major role in this as it benefits them to have an ongoing war in the region.

The solution needs to include the Moderate Palestinians not the extremists who benefit from continuation of the conflict.

They need to change the fundamental basis of their organization which will not last long as I mentioned there are Terrorist groups waiting on the sidelines for any opportunity to pounce on them and take over.

The way to make palestinian people realize it was a mistake to elect a militant government, is show that moderates can achieve things. Right now with the Abbas government being basically ignored, moderates are undermined. But if palestinians in gaza saw the Palestinian state in the west bank being recognized by the world, then would have a reason to vote for moderates in Gaza. If moderates in the west bank accomplish nothing, then youll see increased support for militants.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

I am curious to see what you think after watching the interview with the Hamas leader.

I don't have time to watch it right now, I will watch it sometime tonight.

dre · November 26, 2012

Security Forces from the West Bank with light military support from an Arab Nation to help deal with Hamas solves the problem. If Egypt and Israel Open the flow of good to Gaza but shut down all smuggling of weapons in it should be relatively easy.

THe problem is Gaza still has a militant government. I would deal with the West Bank first.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

The way to make palestinian people realize it was a mistake to elect a militant government, is show that moderates can achieve things. Right now with the Abbas government being basically ignored, moderates are undermined. But if palestinians in gaza saw the Palestinian state in the west bank being recognized by the world, then would have a reason to vote for moderates in Gaza. If moderates in the west bank accomplish nothing, then youll see increased support for militants.

I agree with that, show that moderates following a peaceful course of action bring results while extremists bring forth death, poverty and continuous suffering will let the Palestinians in Gaza decide who they want and what they will get as a result of that choice.

bush_cheney2004 · November 26, 2012

One of the most, not the most...

No..not even one of the most.

Deal with those groups that are moderates, and that recognize Israel's right to exist. The point is for everyone to get a fair deal, the Palestinians are allowed to form their own country, Israel gets the live in peace and everyone else minds their own business.

Israel has higher priorities than "living in peace" with those hell bent on killing Israelis.

And Israel has been fighting them for the same amount of time, how is that working out for them?

Pretty well...who has a well defended nation state and who doesn't.

Give the Palestinians a reason to fight, and let them fight those who want to bring them back to this position. Show them that negotiation is the way to go and rein in the Israeli extremest.

This is not Israel's responsibility. The Palestinians need to figure this out by themselves, and if they can't control certain groups, Israel will deal with them the hard way.

dre · November 26, 2012

Says a lot about solutions.

What it says is that you dont want one.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

THe problem is Gaza still has a militant government. I would deal with the West Bank first.

I agree, use the West Bank as an example when show them that poverty is with them because they choose it while people in the West Bank choose prosperity. I don't think it will be much of a choice once it becomes evident.

bush_cheney2004 · November 26, 2012

Israel already has a solution.

DogOnPorch · November 26, 2012

What it says is that you dont want one.

Does it now? A solution is to tell the Arabs to grow-up and join the civilized world or get the proverbial boot to the groin.

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

This is not Israel's responsibility. The Palestinians need to figure this out by themselves, and if they can't control certain groups, Israel will deal with them the hard way.

And the hard way is a short term solution as your grand children ill be discussing the consequences of the "hard way".

Signals.Cpl · November 26, 2012

Pretty well...who has a well defended nation state and who doesn't.

And things change quickly, Israel is on top of the situation right now and could do as it pleases, now is the time to find a solution rather then ignore the problem because they can and look for a solution when the situation gets desperate.

bush_cheney2004 · November 26, 2012

And the hard way is a short term solution as your grand children ill be discussing the consequences of the "hard way".

My grandchildren would be discussing the "hard way" as a matter of pride. That's how things get done.

bush_cheney2004 · November 26, 2012

And things change quickly, Israel is on top of the situation right now and could do as it pleases, now is the time to find a solution rather then ignore the problem because they can and look for a solution when the situation gets desperate.

That's Israel's choice to make, not ours.