Celebrate Diversity of Views of Sacrifice by Jesus and 7th cent. Imam

[jbg]

The holiday of Ashoura is upon the Muslim world. This holiday mourns the death of 7th century death of Imam Hussein. Like Jesus who died on the cross for the sins of his people, Hussein gave his life for his people. Here, there is unity and commonality of two of the world's three great monotheistic religions. The article excerpted below (link) and embedded video shows that the two religions approach this vicarious suffering and sacrifice, by Jesus and Imam Hussein quite differently.

We should celebrate the diversity of methods of worship, and views.

Shiite Muslims gathered in the Afghan capital Kabul to mark the holy day of Ashoura. Crowds of men whipped their backs to commemorate the 7th century death of Imam Hussein, the Prophet Muhammad’s grandson. “He (Imam Hussein) sacrificed his life for all Muslims, not only for Shiites, it was for all Muslims, and today we honour the sacrifices that our beloved prophet’s family made for us and we mourn this day,” said Ghulam Sakhi, one of the Ashoura mourners.

*****************************

“On this day Imam Hussian was martyred. So we beat ourselves with chains only because of the love we have for him and to mourn his martyrdom. We don’t feel any pain in our bodies,” Murtaza Najafi, an Afghan Shi’ite mourner who beat himself,

reportedly

explained.

Ashoura (also spelled “Ashura”) is observed by Shiites throughout the world, though not always in such a bloody way. There is typically a large gathering in the United Kingdom, and communities in Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria hold ceremonies as well.

Here is Russia Today’s extremely graphic video from Afghanistan (content warning):

Edited to add link and alter possibly inflammatory thread title, since both worship methods are admirable.

Edited November 26, 2012 by jbg

[The_Squid]

Weird

[kimmy]

Great party.

What a bunch of dumb-asses.

-k

[jbg]

Weird

I wanted to show some admiration for Islam.

[The_Squid]

I wanted to show some admiration for Islam.

Sure you did.....

[cybercoma]

Look at that, Muslims and Christians coming together:

[kimmy]

Look at that, Muslims and Christians coming together:

Great party.

What a bunch of dumb-asses.

-k

[cybercoma]

They're missing the chaps and ball-gags.

[WIP]

The holiday of Ashoura is upon the Muslim world. This holiday mourns the death of 7th century death of Imam Hussein. Like Jesus who died on the cross for the sins of his people, Hussein gave his life for his people. Here, there is unity and commonality of two of the world's three great monotheistic religions. The article excerpted below (link) and embedded video shows that the two religions approach this vicarious suffering and sacrifice, by Jesus and Imam Hussein quite differently.

We should celebrate the diversity of methods of worship, and views.

Shiite Muslims gathered in the Afghan capital Kabul to mark the holy day of Ashoura. Crowds of men whipped their backs to commemorate the 7th century death of Imam Hussein, the Prophet Muhammad’s grandson. “He (Imam Hussein) sacrificed his life for all Muslims, not only for Shiites, it was for all Muslims, and today we honour the sacrifices that our beloved prophet’s family made for us and we mourn this day,” said Ghulam Sakhi, one of the Ashoura mourners.

*****************************

“On this day Imam Hussian was martyred. So we beat ourselves with chains only because of the love we have for him and to mourn his martyrdom. We don’t feel any pain in our bodies,” Murtaza Najafi, an Afghan Shi’ite mourner who beat himself,

reportedly

explained.

Ashoura (also spelled “Ashura”) is observed by Shiites throughout the world, though not always in such a bloody way. There is typically a large gathering in the United Kingdom, and communities in Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria hold ceremonies as well.

Here is Russia Today’s extremely graphic video from Afghanistan (content warning):

Why didn't mention that your source is crazy Mormon fanatic Glenn Beck's site? The actual source on RT might actually have useful background material to put the Ashoura festival in context. Don't forget to buy gold!

Edited November 26, 2012 by WIP

[DogOnPorch]

Why didn't mention that your source is crazy Mormon fanatic Glenn Beck's site? The actual source on RT might actually have useful background material to put the Ashoura festival in context. Don't forget to buy gold!

Nah...it's f**ked-up...cultural sensitivities aside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXu5gOuJIeI

[cybercoma]

Seriously, we've never had a thread about Catholic flagellation. What's the point of this one?

[DogOnPorch]

Seriously, we've never had a thread about Catholic flagellation. What's the point of this one?

Yep...Philippines...Mexico...Central America. You'd think it was a Shia festival.

[Guest Peeves]

Certain behavior in sectarian tribal political groups is simply nonsense rather than a religion.

I look at Scientology and wonder their receiving tax benefits as a religion.I look at the nonsense in even the major religions and wonder at the nonsense that is accepted by so called intelligent -educated adults. None are free of fault for inane practices.

[sharkman]

Seriously, we've never had a thread about Catholic flagellation. What's the point of this one?

I bet you can't find a similar youtube video on Jewish behaviour. They tend to be smarter than this.

Anyway that's what religion gets you, and why Jesus called the religious leaders of his day a brood of vipers.

Edited November 26, 2012 by sharkman

[Guest Peeves]

Seriously, we've never had a thread about Catholic flagellation. What's the point of this one?

Yes indeed, lets open this to one and all practices of 'faith'.

[Guest Peeves]

I bet you can't find a similar youtube video on Jewish behaviour. They tend to be smarter than this.

Anyway that's what religion gets you, and why Jesus called the religious leaders of his day a brood of vipers.

Well this is pretty dumb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX-IjAgqqao

Edited November 26, 2012 by Peeves

[cybercoma]

I bet you can't find a similar youtube video on Jewish behaviour.

I guess if you ignore that whole thing where they have some grown man bite the end off their sons' penises. Sure.

[Guest Peeves]

I guess if you ignore that whole thing where they have some grown man bite the end off their sons' penises. Sure.

Like someone apparently did to your head.

[sharkman]

I guess if you ignore that whole thing where they have some grown man bite the end off their sons' penises. Sure.

Oh, and where did you see that? You're not just making up whoppers because you don't have anything are you? (sounds of cyber furiously digging through youtube saying,"dammit that's not gruesome enough").

Edited November 26, 2012 by sharkman

[WIP]

Oh, and where did you see that? You're not just making up whoppers because you don't have anything are you? (sounds of cyber furiously digging through youtube saying,"dammit that's not gruesome enough").

I don't think it matters whether he can find "something gruesome enough;" there are real life examples from court trials involving rabbis spreading AIDS and other diseases through their unusual and revolting method of circumcising male babies....I really hope there aren't any videos or pictures! The point is once again that those living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

And, an even more important lesson should be that mocking other people's religious beliefs is not going to reduce religious extremism; it's just going to increase divisions and barriers.

[cybercoma]

Oh, and where did you see that? You're not just making up whoppers because you don't have anything are you? (sounds of cyber furiously digging through youtube saying,"dammit that's not gruesome enough").

You don't know about it, so it mustn't be true, eh?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/circumcisers_kiss_of_death_S20ek2gmCGjA5432IvveMI

If you want video, you'll have to go hunting for it yourself.

[DogOnPorch]

I don't think it matters whether he can find "something gruesome enough;" there are real life examples from court trials involving rabbis spreading AIDS and other diseases through their unusual and revolting method of circumcising male babies....I really hope there aren't any videos or pictures! The point is once again that those living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

And, an even more important lesson should be that mocking other people's religious beliefs is not going to reduce religious extremism; it's just going to increase divisions and barriers.

I suppose you can provide a few links to this revolting practice spreading AIDS?

[cybercoma]

It wasn't AIDS. It was herpes. It's spread via metzitzah b’peh, where the mohel extracts blood from the incision by mouth. It's only select ultra-orthodox Jews that do this, as most use a sterile pipette for the procedure.

[DogOnPorch]

It wasn't AIDS. It was herpes. It's spread via metzitzah b’peh, where the mohel extracts blood from the incision by mouth. It's only select ultra-orthodox Jews that do this, as most use a sterile pipette for the procedure.

No sh!t. Most Canadians born in the 1960s have circumcised ....errrr...equipment. In BC, the figure is still about 30% of newborns. No Jews involved.

[WIP]

Well this is pretty dumb.

Yes it is! Which is why what astonishes me most about this thread is that it is from someone in a minority religion, taking stuff from a site run by a Mormon fanatic (Glenn Beck), because both of them think that their religions are part of the white, conservative mainstream in the U.S.. We'll see just how far Christian Evangelicals are willing to tolerate Mormonism in the coming years, but any Jewish Orthodox extremist should be forewarned that Christian Zionism is a very recent phenomena historically, and there are undercurrents within the same right wing movements who see Jewish conspiracy theories when they notice Jewish names of bankers and media ownership. And, even the Christian Zionists expect all Jews to become Christians in the last days; so this marriage of convenience between Zionists and right wing Evangelicals cannot last!

But, what bothers me most about this kind of thread is that it makes no attempt to talk with or read what Shia Muslims say about rituals like Ashura. Do most Shias practice this? Do they approve of it, or want it phased out? I can tell you as point of fact that Shias are the major oppressed minority group all across the Arab Sunni World, and that might be a factor in what is perceived as extremism.

But, why are westerners who hate Muslims in general, and want to destroy every branch of it, working in cooperation with Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and others, who represent the most reactionary movement within Islam in the last 200 years? I am reminded again how the names change from freedom fighter to terrorist and back again, depending on U.S. foreign policy interests.