Smallc Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 BTW, what is your take on two days of bloodletting for the DOW? I'm sure you're blaming that on the election...and it has nothing to do with the election, other than the continuation of a divided Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Let's not forget to thank the Senators and Congressmen who voted "yes" .... Agreed....get ready for the backlash that is best described as "vicious compliance" with the law. It is not going to be pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) How much do you think the unemployment rate will rise by as a result ? Hard to say, at this time of year the economy is getting into Christmas sales which can help employment. Plus Sandy's damage will take new jobs to repair, so it could be a wash until the February report, when Christmas is out of the system. I doubt unemployment will go down in the meantime though. Edited November 9, 2012 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I'm sure you're blaming that on the election...and it has nothing to do with the election, other than the continuation of a divided Congress. A divided congress caused a sudden DOW bloodletting right after the election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Since Obamacare will now remain the law of the land, small and medium sized businesses will shed workers to get under the 50 employee limit, or convert them to contractors without benefits. Thanks Barack! Unintended consequences tend to keep surprising Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 A divided congress caused a sudden DOW bloodletting right after the election? Yes, because the fiscal cliff is coming, and Republicans may be just as defiant as they were before. Or you think that the (widely expected) re-election of Obama caused it? Why of course you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Yes, because the fiscal cliff is coming, and Republicans may be just as defiant as they were before. Yes that`s why coal companies and banks led the dow losers... because of the fiscal cliff of course! Or you think that the (widely expected) re-election of Obama caused it? Why of course you do. Of course he does because he actually follows the market. You see there's thing thing called probability. The 30-40% probability of a Romney win was priced into the market. Now you are seeing the market pricing a 0% probability of Romney winning. The S&P 500 would be over 1500 if Romney had won, since the market would be pricing a 100% probability of a Romney win into stock prices. But by all means, continue to stick your head in the sand and blame the (widely expected) fiscal cliff. "It's the fiscal cliff stupid!" Edited November 10, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) No, I'm not blaming the election, and that's not what I said. It's the fiscal cliff, which Obama is responsible for as his decisions in the last 4 years have led to this, putting off the tax increase to just after the election. I guess in a way it is the election, but mostly just bad decisions by Obama. What's happened is now companies know that the tax changes are coming for sure since Obama won. Therefore they can forecast what their tax bills will be with more certainty, and the tax increases of citizens. It's going to be a bad year and they are downsizing to prepare for it. Edited November 10, 2012 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Well, quite a few are allready laying people off... didn't take long. There are more, but you get the idea. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/sns-ap-il--coal-layoffs-energy-policies-20121109,0,3628608.story A list of many business announcing layoffs: http://www.examiner.com/article/scores-of-us-businesses-announce-closings-and-layoffs-due-to-obama-s-re-election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) No, I'm not blaming the election, and that's not what I said. It's the fiscal cliff, which Obama is responsible for as his decisions in the last 4 years have led to this, putting off the tax increase to just after the election. I guess in a way it is the election, but mostly just bad decisions by Obama. What's happened is now companies know that the tax changes are coming for sure since Obama won. Therefore they can forecast what their tax bills will be with more certainty, and the tax increases of citizens. It's going to be a bad year and they are downsizing to prepare for it. You're contradicting yourself. The movement in the market is a result of the market adjusting from a 30-40% chance of a Romney win to a 0% chance. It is entirely on the re-election of Obama. Anyone who works in the financial services industry could tell you that. Clients/coworkers don't keep it a secret why they are selling (or buying puts). Edited November 10, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I don't want to think it's so directly connected, but I guess if it quacks like a duck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Well, quite a few are allready laying people off... didn't take long. There are more, but you get the idea. http://www.chicagotr...0,3628608.story A list of many business announcing layoffs: http://www.examiner....a-s-re-election Riiight. Did you even read the list of companies closing and read why they are closing? Westinghouse The company that operated Anniston’s chemical weapons incinerator has 50 fewer workers today as part of continuing efforts to close down the facility. Read more: Anniston Star - More layoffs announced at Anniston weapons incinerator RIM To even suggest that Research in Motion is laying people off due to the election is absurd. RIM announced last summer that it would cut about 5,000 jobs worldwide by March, to offset mounting losses and dramatically slower phone sales. Manning said the company is on track to meet that goal. Read more: Research in Motion cuts jobs at U.S. headquarters in Irving Lightyear Network Solution s Officials with Lightyear Network Solutions said they are consolidating offices in Louisville and Pikeville to save money. Read more: Company lays off workers in Pikeville Providence Journal This is a good one. It's Obama's fault all of a sudden that changing technologies has impacted the profitability of newspapers? Most people read their news on the internet today. Advertisers are not interested in spending money on ads that don't reach people. Given a persistent softness in advertising revenue and the resultant impact on our earnings, it is necessary that we reduce our cost structure Read more: Providence journal laws off 23 full-time employees Hawker Beechcraft These guys had already gone bankrupt and are restructuring their business. Hawker Beechcraft says the moves are in line with plans to emerge from bankruptcy as a standalone company. It says the closures and layoffs will help with its plan to focus on turboprop, piston and military aircraft and on its parts and maintenance business. Read more: Hawker Beechcraft announces more layoffs Boeing Here they're laying off 30% of their executives due to cuts to National Defence. This is probably the only thing that Obama may be directly responsible for. Article: Boeing cutting 30% of executives at defense unit CVPH Medical Center A $400,000 shortfall in revenue is blamed for the move, brought on by cuts in reimbursement, fewer admissions and less use of outpatient services, according to the Plattsburgh hospital. Read More: CVPH lays off 17 US Cellular Here they're selling themselves off to Sprint. U.S. Cellular will sell markets including Chicago to units of Sprint Nextel Corp. for $480 million. Read more: US Cellular drops Chicago, cuts 640 local jobs Momentive Inc. Want to take a stab at what would have happened under Mitt's plan to let Detroit go under? These people wouldn't have jobs because they're reliant on the automotive industry. If anything, Obama has staved off permanent layoffs here for a temporary one. Two weeks. That's vacation for many people. the company will lay off workers for a two week period beginning Nov. 12 and ending Nov. 25, with workers returning to the job Nov. 26. Read more: Momentive Inc. plans temporary layoffs for 150 Rocketdyne Aside from the fact that I have no idea how you blame corporate mergers on Obama, but this is an space exploration company. I have a hard time believing with your cheerleading for austerity that you really want the government bulking up spending on space exploration. But you're right. This too is all Obama's fault, like the defence spending above. Except, your conservatives are talking out of both sides of their mouth. At once they're crying about austerity and not increasing the debt ceiling, but then complaining that the government is cutting spending. You can't have it both ways. About 100 employees at Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne, most of whom work in the San Fernando Valley, were laid off Wednesday in response to dwindling government spending on space exploration, the company said. Read more: Rocketdyne lays off 100 ahead of Aerojet merger That's just the first 10 on the list. I'm not going to go through the rest of them, but suffice it to say that laying the blame squarely on the election of Obama is about as far from the truth as you can get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 All the reports I saw blamed it on issues unrelated to the election. Obama btw, according to most predictors, was close to a shire winner. That was built into the market. In the last week, Romney's chance of winning was almost 0. The markets knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
login Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Who is investing in gold I think it jumped like $10 http://futures.tradi....com/chart/GD/M Why sit on leaves when you can have commodities and tangibles, they are rationing gas in New York. check ou CPI http://ycharts.com/i...mer_price_index Look familiar... If you can beleive it the cliff is forcast to knock 4% off of the economic growth rate. That is a defaut recession, and if it is mantained a depression. "The year-over-year changes for fiscal years 2012–2013 include a 19.63% increase in taxes and 0.25% reduction in spending." Edited November 10, 2012 by login Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 So why are they all laying off right after the election? You may have a point with some of them, but none the less, if Obama had solved the economy in 2 years like he should have, then there would have been monthly unemployment reports of net jobs totalling a couple of million or more by now. Instead we have a still very high unemployment rate and companies shedding jobs and not investing in infastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Who is investing in gold I think it jumped like $10 http://futures.tradi....com/chart/GD/M Crazy fools like Glenn Beck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 So why are they all laying off right after the election? You may have a point with some of them, but none the less, if Obama had solved the economy in 2 years like he should have, then there would have been monthly unemployment reports of net jobs totalling a couple of million or more by now. Instead we have a still very high unemployment rate and companies shedding jobs and not investing in infastructure. Why hasn't Obama solved the Euro Crisis? Slacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 whoa, slow down there buddy! One thing at a time, you gotta take care of your own house before you start fixing Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 whoa, slow down there buddy! One thing at a time, you gotta take care of your own house before you start fixing Europe. Sarcasm, buddy. You're the one that blames our economic problems on Europe, but when it comes to the US... it's Obama's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) All the reports I saw blamed it on issues unrelated to the election. Obama btw, according to most predictors, was close to a shire winner. That was built into the market. In the last week, Romney's chance of winning was almost 0. The markets knew that. All the "reports" you saw from reporters who voted for Obama? Yes I watch the news too... but I also work in the industry and am capable of critical thinking. Can you put away your Obama pom poms and do some critical thinking for once? Look at the friggin chart I just posted. The Dow drop was led (significantly) by financials and coal companies... Obama's scapegoat industries who he intends to choke with regulations. The rest of the pullback in other sectors was because of higher taxes on investment proposed by Obama, and people who just wanted to get out of the market when things started to sell off. It's funny to see you twist and turn trying to say the market priced in a 100% probability of an Obama victory, then try to blame it on the fiscal cliff which has a 100% probability of occurring. I know that's what someone with a journalism degree on CNN tells you, but try to use your brain and think about that for a second. "Almost a sure winner". Give me a break. Enough with the Obama cheerleading smallC. The election was always about either making a bigger pie, or dividing a smaller pie up more equally. Now you're trying to say the smaller pie isn't a result of the election? You're quite the contortionist. And, as you should know, the market is an aggregation of the beliefs of millions of investors. Was intrade, another aggregation of the beliefs of investors, pricing a 0% chance of a Romney win? Hell no. You see, if equities were at the current prices prior to the election, investors would be buying them up believing them to be undervaluing the possibility of a Romney win. It's supply and demand. It's really not even arguable. Your argument is essentially that every investor was betting on an Obama win... or you just don't understand markets that well. The American people chose this. You're supposed to be happy because now the rich will "pay their fair share". The problem is they'll be paying out of a smaller pie. Edited November 10, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am not am Obama fan. I don't know what's wrong with some of you that makes you incapable of understanding nuance. Obama was going to win. We've known for days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) You have me mixed up with that Euro theory Cyber. On the other hand, Obama has had 4 years to fix his economy. Edited November 10, 2012 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Obama can't fix the US economy. He especially can't when Europe is on life support, and Asia is in a severe slowdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am not am Obama fan. I don't know what's wrong with some of you that makes you incapable of understanding nuance. Obama was going to win. We've known for days. Yes we "knew" when Obama won. Millions of investors who don't think Obama is good for the economy, and who did not have your crystal ball prior to the election, are now selling or shorting the market. That's how the stock markets work Smallc. It's not that complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Obama can't fix the US economy. He especially can't when Europe is on life support, and Asia is in a severe slowdown. Yes he can't. That's why the markets are selling off. Millions of investors know that Obama, as the leader of the free world, is not capable of righting the boat. Unfortunately it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy (markets sell off because they have no faith in Obama fixing the economy, investors selling and companies laying off makes it harder to repair the economy). Edited November 10, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.