Guest Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Yes weve already been over all that years ago... Again... Iraq was accused of having "massive stockpiles" and an "active WMD military industrial complex". I've only been here a month or two. A question: How much is enough to be a threat? Immediately after 9/11 showed how vulnerable US citizens were to terrorist attack, how much mustard gas or nerve agent would be considered by you to be a valid reason to invade? Edited November 13, 2012 by bcsapper Quote
Guest Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 I didnt set that the Bush administration did. But yeah! By not accepting "you can make muffins with ingredients", as proof that Iraq had massive WMD stockpiles and an active manufacturing complex, we are clearly setting the bar unreasonably high Do you require all posts to be literal? I could do that I guess, if I know you're involved in a discussion, but excuse me for trying to be creative. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 I've only been hear a month or two. A question: How much is enough to be a threat? Immediately after 9/11 showed how vulnerable US citizens were to terrorist attack, how much mustard gas or nerve agent would be considered by you to be a valid reason to invade? What these folks don't seem to get is that VX...what Saddam apparently had for his civilian attacks...isn't just a bad day in the trenches as per WW1. It's the stuff the British traded to the US for the H-Bomb...then the US decided it was too nasty to even think of using....and got rid of it. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 I've only been hear a month or two. A question: How much is enough to be a threat? Immediately after 9/11 showed how vulnerable US citizens were to terrorist attack, how much mustard gas or nerve agent would be considered by you to be a valid reason to invade? Well 911 showed that boxcutters were enough to be a threat. In any case when the US was rounding on Iraq they made a number of fairly specific allegations all of which turned out to be utterly false, as confirmed by both David Kay, and the Iraq Survey Group. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Well 911 showed that boxcutters were enough to be a threat. In any case when the US was rounding on Iraq they made a number of fairly specific allegations all of which turned out to be utterly false, as confirmed by both David Kay, and the Iraq Survey Group. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21842&st=90#entry851304 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Hey, are we going to argue about the invasion of Iraq again ? Gee, it's been almost ten years of bad poker playing by Saddam. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Hey, are we going to argue about the invasion of Iraq again ? Gee, it's been almost ten years of bad poker playing by Saddam. It's yea olde what's a WMD? That's not a WMD. This is a WMD! Plus: I can see all of Iraq from my house! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Do you require all posts to be literal? I could do that I guess, if I know you're involved in a discussion, but excuse me for trying to be creative. The thing is, even as an analogy it completely fails. Saddam wasnt accused of having ingredients that he could later make WMDs with. He was accused of having massive active stockpiles, and a vast manufacturing complex. What Im poking fun at here, is not so much your muffin analogy its your basic grasp of logic and reason, and how to use them in a conversation. In all fairness to you though, the muffin thing even if taken literally is still better than most of the nonsense put forward by the handfull of quacks that still think the Bush Administrations allegations in the leadup to the war were correct/factual. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 It's yea olde what's a WMD? That's not a WMD. This is a WMD! Plus: I can see all of Iraq from my house! Precisely.....WMDee?...WMDeeeeee?....we don't need no steenkin' WMDeee to invade Iraq. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Precisely.....WMDee?...WMDeeeeee?....we don't need no steenkin' WMDeee to invade Iraq. Saddam's time was up. Plain and simple. Insert 25 cents for 5 more minutes and he said #$%& it. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Saddam's time was up. Plain and simple. Insert 25 cents for 5 more minutes and he said #$%& it. Finally the tinfoil hat comes off... Thats more or less accurate. The US had wanted to topple saddam every since gulf war 1, and 911 and fake WMD claims finally made it possible. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Finally the tinfoil hat comes off... Thats more or less accurate. The US had wanted to topple saddam every since gulf war 1, and 911 and fake WMD claims finally made it possible. Yep.....the U.S. bombed him, sanctioned him, strangled him, cussed him, and finally invaded him. They even passed a law to topple Saddam's regime. I love it when a plan comes together. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Finally the tinfoil hat comes off... Thats more or less accurate. The US had wanted to topple saddam every since gulf war 1, and 911 and fake WMD claims finally made it possible. Ummmm...I've said this all along. But nice try making yourself to be some great teaching sage. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) The thing is, even as an analogy it completely fails. Saddam wasnt accused of having ingredients that he could later make WMDs with. He was accused of having massive active stockpiles, and a vast manufacturing complex. What Im poking fun at here, is not so much your muffin analogy its your basic grasp of logic and reason, and how to use them in a conversation. In all fairness to you though, the muffin thing even if taken literally is still better than most of the nonsense put forward by the handfull of quacks that still think the Bush Administrations allegations in the leadup to the war were correct/factual. The US doesn't provide me with its intelligence reports, but just from reading the news and using common sense it is obvious that the Iraqi regime was considered a threat in that the weapons of mass destruction could be delivered into the wrong hands by a lunatic on a whim. Remembering that a barrel is enough, if delivered properly, to make the death toll of 9/11 seem relatively slight. I believe the US, or anyone else, for that matter, has the right to defend themselves. An argument could be made that the rush to do so in this case was not thought out as well as it might have been, nor might what was eventually put into practice, but as an ally of the US, I don't question the general principle, which was just as valid if SH still had to do a little shopping and baking. Edit> Just to qualify that. I believe the US believed SH had more than he actually did have, but he did have enough to warrant the concern. Edited November 13, 2012 by bcsapper Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 ....I believe the US, or anyone else, for that matter, has the right to defend themselves. An argument could be made that the rush to do so in this case was not thought out as well as it might have been, nor might what was eventually put into practice, but as an ally of the US, I don't question the general principle, which was just as valid if SH still had to do a little shopping and baking. Which is exactly what two other prime ministers of Commonwealth nations figured too. Saddam was unfinished business...now quite finished. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Ummmm...I've said this all along. But nice try making yourself to be some great teaching sage. Yes sir...let the record show that you have been most forthcoming in this matter of Saddam Hussein vs. American "warmongers". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 I believe the US believed SH had more than he actually did have, but he did have enough to warrant the concern. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Which is exactly what two other prime ministers of Commonwealth nations figured too. Saddam was unfinished business...now quite finished. What I do find rather silly is that it ended up costing so much when a pack of Rangers with good intell could have put a bullet in his brain and posed with the trophy. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Yes sir...let the record show that you have been most forthcoming in this matter of Saddam Hussein vs. American "warmongers". How many times did he take pot shots at over flights in the No-Fly-Zone? He was crusin'.... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Ummmm...I've said this all along. But nice try making yourself to be some great teaching sage. No you just spent a few pages, suggesting that Saddam hid his vast stockpiles, or sent them to Syria. I dont blame you for moving the goalposts now though because clearly that wasnt going well. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 What I do find rather silly is that it ended up costing so much when a pack of Rangers with good intell could have put a bullet in his brain and posed with the trophy. Because Saddam wasnt what they were hunting. They wanted access to Iraq, and they wanted to transform the region. Your brilliant idea would have left the Baath party in charge, with one of Husseins brothers at the helm, and perpetuated the status quo. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 What I do find rather silly is that it ended up costing so much when a pack of Rangers with good intell could have put a bullet in his brain and posed with the trophy. Clinton wouldn't take the shot. Bush did. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Because Saddam wasnt what they were hunting. They wanted access to Iraq, and they wanted to transform the region. Your brilliant idea would have left the Baath party in charge, with one of Husseins brothers at the helm, and perpetuated the status quo. Edit> Excuse that. I just wanted to see what it was like to answer a post with an emoticon instead of an argument. I didn't like it. I won't do it again. Edited November 13, 2012 by bcsapper Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 No you just spent a few pages, suggesting that Saddam hid his vast stockpiles, or sent them to Syria. I dont blame you for moving the goalposts now though because clearly that wasnt going well. I contend Iraq had chemical weapons. There's even a few instances of their use. Now unless the chemical weapons fairy came and removed all the trappings of Iraq's chemical weapons program, they either... 1. Hid it. 2. Moved it. What part of that do you not understand? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Posted November 13, 2012 Hey, should I give Hans a call ? He likes these kind of parties and I just love how he pronounces "Misssssyles". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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