Winnipeg police chief touts prayer to help combat crime

[cybercoma]

It's not relevant to anything that he's said. So are you saying that's what they should do?

I just told you how it's relevant to what he said.

[Guest Derek L]

Anyway, he was originally interviewed by a Christian newspaper - therefore he was talking to his fellow-Christians. His statement was picked up by some media - of course - thus, it became an issue!

I’m a non-practicing Agnostic, but I agree with you……..The Police Chief, also the former Department Chaplin, was speaking with a Christian magazine/interviewer………..What’s wrong with asking those that do to pray? Nothing. As you said, it will cost the public nothing and it’s not a lone strategy, nor will it be enforced.

It’s telling the level of pettiness that those that find criticism in his remarks have………I suppose if he was interviewed by a dog owners magazine, he’d have pissed off cat owners………..

[Guest American Woman]

Found this, love it. And if the shoe fits .....

Here is what Chief Devon Clunis originally told Christian Week:

"What would happen if we all just truly — I'm talking about all religious stripes here — started praying for the peace of this city and then actually started putting some action behind that?"

Here is what many people thought they heard:

"Winnipeg police officers don't need guns. They need bibles and only bibles because God will solve our problems, if we believe. Praise be."

http://ca.news.yahoo...-204536032.html

I can just imagine these same people, if a friend with cancer were to ask for prayers, responding with: "What?? Your're not going to seek medical care?? You're just going to rely on prayers to heal you?"

Edited October 30, 2012 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

His statement was picked up by some media - of course - thus, it became an issue!

I think "an issue" is exaggerating. There was an article in the Free Press saying what he said, and then it was all done. It's nice to see there are still some authentic Christians out there who use their faith to promote harmony and do not see it as a reason to fight with others.

Edited October 30, 2012 by BubberMiley

[Guest Derek L]

Found this, love it. And if the shoe fits .....

Here is what Chief Devon Clunis originally told Christian Week:

"What would happen if we all just truly — I'm talking about all religious stripes here — started praying for the peace of this city and then actually started putting some action behind that?"

Here is what many people thought they heard:

"Winnipeg police officers don't need guns. They need bibles and only bibles because God will solve our problems, if we believe. Praise be."

http://ca.news.yahoo...-204536032.html

I can just imagine these same people, if a friend with cancer were to ask for prayers, responding with: "What?? Your're not going to seek medical care?? You're just going to rely on prayers to heal you?"

Exactly. If the Chief were homosexual and praised the local Pride parade or of Ukrainian heritage, and seen painting eggs at some event or enjoyed soccer over hockey he’d draw criticism from some people………Now I can understand some aversion to evangelical people, be they religious, into Hot Yoga or organic foods etc, that ram their beliefs down others throats and try to force them to change…………But this? Come on, the guy was talking to other people of faith and clearly not outlying a taxpayer funded strategy to combat crime…

The constant whiners remind me of the old adage that for ever finger you point in criticism at someone, there are three more pointing back at yourself.

[Guest American Woman]

I agree with all you said, and will just add that the criticism for something that he didn't even say is what I find most puzzling and difficult to understand. Surely all of these people aren't so inept that they can't comprehend what he said - from what I've seen, most have no problem with comprehension when it involves people and issues that they support.

[Guest]

I can just imagine these same people, if a friend with cancer were to ask for prayers, responding with: "What?? Your're not going to seek medical care?? You're just going to rely on prayers to heal you?"

I imagine that would be okay, if ineffective. However, if the head of the local hospital went on record as saying that if only people would pray, more people might be cured, I'd find it a bit suspect.

[betsy]

I imagine that would be okay, if ineffective. However, if the head of the local hospital went on record as saying that if only people would pray, more people might be cured, I'd find it a bit suspect.

Why would you find that "suspect?"

Don't they say "positive thinking" may give some benefits to healing? If certain people facing life-threatening illness resorts to prayers in addition to what doctors are doing - what's wrong with that?

Who's to say prayers are ineffective - when they promote a positive-ness or whatever you call it (that brings hope to a person facing death to shoulder on and BEAT death)? How would you know?

[betsy]

I wonder how many among you non-believers wouldn't resort to prayers when you or someone very dear to you is at death's door? Others even go as far as going to quack doctors in their desperation. Just take a pause and imagine that scenario.

No, I don't expect an answer to that - lest you invite...........(searching for the word you'd undersand)........"bad luck?"

Edited October 31, 2012 by betsy

[Guest]

I guess prayer could have a placebo effect.

As for last resort, I won't know until I'm there. It's possible that twelve or thirteen years of strict Catholic schooling might trump 40 years of doubt and eventual atheism, (well, agnostic atheism) so I'd have to see.

As for suspect, I would wonder what else said administrator was placing in the hands of a non existent deity.

Edited October 31, 2012 by bcsapper

[Guest American Woman]

I imagine that would be okay, if ineffective.

That it would be ineffective is your opinion.

However, if the head of the local hospital went on record as saying that if only people would pray, more people might be cured, I'd find it a bit suspect.

That's not the equivalent of what he said, though. He didn't say that if only people would pray, more crimes might be solved. He said that if more people prayed, and put action behind their prayers, their might be less crime. Furthermore, he didn't say "if only" at all - which does put a bit of a different connotation on it.

At any rate, it would be the equivalent of the head of the local hospital saying what would happen if people started praying for their health, and then actually started putting some action behind it? The idea would be that perhaps there would be fewer people with health issues, not that more people might be cured. They are two entirely different thoughts.

[BubberMiley]

That it would be ineffective is your opinion.

That it is his opinion is your opinion.

[Guest American Woman]

That it is his opinion is your opinion.

Ummm. No. It isn't. Since what he said isn't a fact, it is simply his opinion. Now if I were to say that prayer would help, that would be my opinion. Hope that helps.

[guyser]

I wonder how many among you non-believers wouldn't resort to prayers when you or someone very dear to you is at death's door? No, I don't expect an answer to that -

I wouldnt, nor have I when someone was at deaths door.

[BubberMiley]

Ummm. No. It isn't.

It's not your opinion? Then why did you say it?

[Guest American Woman]

It's not your opinion? Then why did you say it?

Because it's a fact. Now be a good boy and go bother someone else.

[BubberMiley]

I'm still confused. You can't have an opinion about a fact?

[The_Squid]

I wonder how many among you non-believers wouldn't resort to prayers when you or someone very dear to you is at death's door? Others even go as far as going to quack doctors in their desperation. Just take a pause and imagine that scenario.

No, I don't expect an answer to that - lest you invite...........(searching for the word you'd undersand)........"bad luck?"

Even if someone did do so ("there are no atheists in a foxhole"), that doesn't provide proof of a deity.

[betsy]

Even if someone did do so ("there are no atheists in a foxhole"), that doesn't provide proof of a deity.

Who's talking about proof?

See....I begin to suspect that for some non-believers, the issue is not about what was said in the article - but what it implies?

[betsy]

Sometimes we see in the papers talks about "miraculous recovery". Who is to say that they're not miracles at all?

I don't think it really matters whether a person has had a religious background or not - I guess the question is, how desperate are you to want to add a few more years to life in this world. Are you willing to try anything and everything?

Edited November 1, 2012 by betsy

[Mr.Canada]

I don't see how prayer can hurt anything. No harm in it. If people would like to pray as part of the crime reduction program, so be it. Nothing bad can come of it. Everyone is equal in this nation, all cultures are equal.

[cybercoma]

I don't see how prayer can hurt anything. No harm in it.

Actually...

Researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/ns/health-heart_health/t/power-prayer-flunks-unusual-test/#.UJKkiLT75US

[Mr.Canada]

Actually...

Lol, give me a break.

[The_Squid]

Lol, give me a break.

The religious do not like "studies" and "evidence".

[Guest American Woman]

The religious do not like "studies" and "evidence".

Oh, please. There are plenty of studies that show the opposite of the one cybercoma cited. So should I claim that atheists do not like "studies" and "evidence?"