The Economic Ignorance of the Modern Right

[Michael Hardner]

It might be difficult to asses how bad, but it should be be hard to understand that it IS bad, quite bad currently.

And if you are waiting for someone else to get things turned around .. you are going to be waiting a very long time.

Yes, it's bad but ... bad as in "time to destroy our financial systems and start over " or not ? I'd say not.

What does waiting for someone else to get things turned around mean ? I hope everybody isn't expecting ME to fix this !

[GostHacked]

Yes, it's bad but ... bad as in "time to destroy our financial systems and start over " or not ? I'd say not.

Have you seen what is going on? The financial systems are broken and mainly by how the financial systems are designed. Destruction seems to be inherent in how this is all done.

How much longer can the bailout shuffle happen before it all implodes on itself?

What does waiting for someone else to get things turned around mean ? I hope everybody isn't expecting ME to fix this !

Yes Mike, we want YOU to fix everything!??!?!? No we all need to be part of it and fix it. Possibly replace it with something that is sustainable. Sustainability is one of the UNs nice keywords as of late.

[Canuckistani]

Sustainablitity is the only sane answer here. I don't think humans are that sane tho.

[GostHacked]

Sustainablitity is the only sane answer here. I don't think humans are that sane tho.

The funny thing is I think we have already went past what should be sustainable. It's a nice buzzword to tell us that we WILL be screwed, without letting us know that we are ALREADY screwed.

One point is the iron sulphate dumping off the BC coast. It was to bring back algea/plankton bloom in order to bring the fish stocks back to a level that could be sustained, meaning the tipping point already happened there.

[Canuckistani]

The fish didn't disappear because plankton decreased in the ocean, AFAIK, but because we overfish them and degrade their spawning grounds. Too, bad, I thought Indigenous People were in touch with the earth and would understand that.

Our population numbers are as high as they are because of fossil fuels. Take those away without adequate replacements (that don't seem to be on the horizon) and it's dieback time.

[GostHacked]

The fish didn't disappear because plankton decreased in the ocean, AFAIK, but because we overfish them and degrade their spawning grounds. Too, bad, I thought Indigenous People were in touch with the earth and would understand that.

Well you are correct, overfishing was the problem. I was pointing out the sustainability part. You can't have sustainability if there are no fish stocks to sustain.

The people on Haiida Gwai were swindled by fast talkers and liars.

Our population numbers are as high as they are because of fossil fuels. Take those away without adequate replacements (that don't seem to be on the horizon) and it's dieback time.

Slight correction here, we could not have grown as fast as a global population if it was not for fossil fuels.

[eyeball]

What indigenous people did most off the coast of Haida Gwaii that should be taken note of is that they acted on their own. They're fed up with waiting for Ottawa to do something or anything towards trying to restore the natural capital that underwrites our livelihoods and economic well and given Ottawa is clearly disinclined to lead or follow...they'll just have get out of the way.

I expect we're going to see a lot more people turning their backs on the government and power to this development I say. I don't know if the Haida's approach to relying less on government and putting free enterprise to work is what some people had in mind but like Ottawa, they can either lead follow or get out of the way to if they don't like it.

I'm definitely with the Haida myself.

[GostHacked]

What indigenous people did most off the coast of Haida Gwaii that should be taken note of is that they acted on their own. They're fed up with waiting for Ottawa to do something or anything towards trying to restore the natural capital that underwrites our livelihoods and economic well and given Ottawa is clearly disinclined to lead or follow...they'll just have get out of the way.

I expect we're going to see a lot more people turning their backs on the government and power to this development I say. I don't know if the Haida's approach to relying less on government and putting free enterprise to work is what some people had in mind but like Ottawa, they can either lead follow or get out of the way to if they don't like it.

I'm definitely with the Haida myself.

They got screwed either way. They got swindled.

[eyeball]

Well you are correct, overfishing was the problem. I was pointing out the sustainability part. You can't have sustainability if there are no fish stocks to sustain.

Bad management was the problem. You can't have good fisheries management when management is located over 3000 miles from the ocean.

Further to that you can't have fish until someone restores their habitat and enhances it something the managers more than 3000 miles away don't give a shit about. Restore fish and fishermen that depend on them? That would be crazy when you're trying to blaze a pipeline across a thousand salmon bearing streams and then ship the oil through their feeding areas and fishing grounds people use to catch salmon.

They've been trying to wipe us out for decades.

[eyeball]

They got screwed either way. They got swindled.

Perhaps (although I believe they actually spent money that Ottawa gave them), the bigger point is at least they tried. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Like I said expect more of this not less - the beginning of an end will of the old ways will be marked by the start of the new. Live and learn in the meantime.

[GostHacked]

Perhaps (although I believe they actually spent money that Ottawa gave them), the bigger point is at least they tried. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Like I said expect more of this not less - the beginning of an end will of the old ways will be marked by the start of the new. Live and learn in the meantime.

They got swindled by known swindlers. They did not do their homework when dealing with those individuals as they have been banned from other ports and countries based on the same crap they pulled off Haida Gwaii.

[eyeball]

Like I said, desperate times...

Also like I said, expect more of the same...In the meanwhile what about the swindlers in Ottawa selling us their prescriptions and prognostications for peace and prosperity for all? That's just the same crap in a different bucket.

How much homework do you propose people do?

[Canuckistani]

Like I said, desperate times...

Also like I said, expect more of the same...In the meanwhile what about the swindlers in Ottawa selling us their prescriptions and prognostications for peace and prosperity for all? That's just the same crap in a different bucket.

How much homework do you propose people do?

Enough not to blow 2 million bucks on a bs scheme. All it takes is a bit of logic - ie it wasn't lack of plankton that reduced salmon runs in the first place. But this was sold as a quick get rich scheme by selling carbon credits for the plankton blook. Doesn't look like the natives are ready for prime time. Indigenous People in Canada have basically become a cargo cult - the white man will drop cargo from the sky. When that wasn't enough they turned to other get get rich quick schemes.

[Michael Hardner]

Have you seen what is going on? The financial systems are broken and mainly by how the financial systems are designed. Destruction seems to be inherent in how this is all done.

So the options might be expressed on a spectrum from basic reforms on one end, to going back to the gold standard on the other end. Who should decide where we are on that scale ?

How much longer can the bailout shuffle happen before it all implodes on itself?Yes Mike, we want YOU to fix everything!??!?!? No we all need to be part of it and fix it. Possibly replace it with something that is sustainable. Sustainability is one of the UNs nice keywords as of late.

Your sentence:

"And if you are waiting for someone else to get things turned around .. you are going to be waiting a very long time."

If I'm not waiting for someone else to fix, am I supposed to fix it myself ?

[eyeball]

Enough not to blow 2 million bucks on a bs scheme. All it takes is a bit of logic - ie it wasn't lack of plankton that reduced salmon runs in the first place.

There is a basis for this idea, plankton stocks have been reduced by as much as 50% the last 40 - 50 years. There was also concern that Alaskan fish hatchery production was exceeding the carrying capacity of plankton to sustain the salmon that was being pumped out into the North Pacific. Minerals like iron from deep sea-vents are what plankton eat so...

But this was sold as a quick get rich scheme by selling carbon credits for the plankton blook. Doesn't look like the natives are ready for prime time. Indigenous People in Canada have basically become a cargo cult - the white man will drop cargo from the sky. When that wasn't enough they turned to other get get rich quick schemes.

Well, the white man and especially his governments have been promising indigenous people lots of things that never come true.

[eyeball]

If I'm not waiting for someone else to fix, am I supposed to fix it myself ?

What's there to stop you, the temerity of the Haida for example?

[Michael Hardner]

What's there to stop you, the temerity of the Haida for example?

Hmmmm... let's say you were me, for a second, how would you fix the economy exactly ? Something like: Step 1. Become fed chairman. Step 2. etc.

[GostHacked]

Hmmmm... let's say you were me, for a second, how would you fix the economy exactly ? Something like: Step 1. Become fed chairman. Step 2. etc.

Step 2, abolish the central bank. Purpose of a central bank is to loan money to the country at interest. Perpetual debt.

[Michael Hardner]

Step 2, abolish the central bank. Purpose of a central bank is to loan money to the country at interest. Perpetual debt.

Right - I get it now. So I shouldn't wait for somebody else to do this but I should abolish the central bank myself. Orders received. I will get to this right after I resort my vinyl album collection.

[GostHacked]

Right - I get it now. So I shouldn't wait for somebody else to do this but I should abolish the central bank myself. Orders received. I will get to this right after I resort my vinyl album collection.

Dripping with sarcasm I hope.

Hypothetically if you wanted to, then yes. But what I was getting at is that you yourself can do things on your own to mitigate any potential problems with the banks. Meaning taking care of your personal finances/debt and savings. Invest in property, or precious metals like gold/silver.

What I meant that if you are waiting for the banks/government to solve this issue then you are going to be waiting for a long time. This system of central banks and fractional reserve banking has been going on for about a century now.

Bitcoin is looking quite attractive now.

[Michael Hardner]

Dripping with sarcasm I hope.

Hypothetically if you wanted to, then yes. But what I was getting at is that you yourself can do things on your own to mitigate any potential problems with the banks.

Well, I don't borrow from them at credit card rates - I use line of credit at prime + 2.5% and keep debt low. Is that what you mean ? If so, I agree.

I just read a book that talked about Lee Harvey Oswald, who was deathly poor for most of his life, but he also couldn't get credit - which meant he was broke but not in debt.

[Topaz]

We've heard about the problem banks are having overseas, well by the article, I just read, that same rule, where if a bank fails or gets into financial trouble, the government of Canada will not bail it out, instead, in the Economic Action Plan 2013 in the last budget, banks will be alllowed to go into banks accounts in Canada and take the money they need , says this reporter. The government is saying they won't used taxpayers money to bail out banks but they are, aren't they by this rule, if its true??? Do you believe this is true? http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-confiscation-of-savings-in-canada-cyprus-style-bail-ins-proposed-by-ottawa-government/5329263

[eyeball]

Hmmmm... let's say you were me, for a second, how would you fix the economy exactly ? Something like: Step 1. Become fed chairman. Step 2. etc.

In 1 step not two. Deep sousveillance. Sorry, but I do believe miracles can happen.

Actually deep is probably the wrong word, steep better captures where the real focus should be but you know what I mean.

[eyeball]

We've heard about the problem banks are having overseas...

What about the problems rich taxpayers cheats are having offshore?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/icij-journalists-expose-mass-web-of-global-tax-evasion-a-892505.html

What about the problems we could solve if Ottawa collected the $7 billion Canada is apparently losing every year to this? Of course we can only assume Ottawa cares. I mean there is the issue of finding the temerity to properly govern the rich.

Edited April 5, 2013 by eyeball

[Pliny]

What about the problems rich taxpayers cheats are having offshore?

If they are cheats then put them all in jail. But if you want the money here in Canada and to stay here then get rid of income tax and start taxing in a sane and rational way.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/icij-journalists-expose-mass-web-of-global-tax-evasion-a-892505.html

What about the problems we could solve if Ottawa collected the $7 billion Canada is apparently losing every year to this? Of course we can only assume Ottawa cares. I mean there is the issue of finding the temerity to properly govern the rich.

Why is it that money that Ottawa doesn't collect is money they lost? If they set the income tax rate at 90% for everyone how much money do you think they would lose? The pity is you think that Ottawa can solve problems. Just think of the savings if you didn't need all that sous-veillance.

Temerity is the wrong word in this case. "Effrontery" is what that would be.