Omar is back

[Topaz]

There's many views out there about this man and I would rather wait and hope on the TV networks, like 5th estate does a sit down interview with him after he is free from jail. In other words, I want to hear what he has to say, then I will judge him and I think that's the only fair way one can judge him. We also have to remember, in the Muslim world, parents are very much respected and Omar did what ever his dad told him to do without question, whatever that was. So I'm reserving judgement until Omar speaks.

[Guest American Woman]

No, they kill their enemies. He was a soldier on one side of a war.

Yes, the side that was fighting his country. The side that was killing his country's citizens and allies.

He was involved in a battle. I have no issue with him killing his enemy in battle.

He was in a battle with his country's enemies. You have no issue with that?

But he shouldn't be allowed his freedom while he might still have enemies to kill.

Why? - If there's no issue with what he was doing?

[Tilter]

No, they kill their enemies. He was a soldier on one side of a war. That he was kid speaks to the contempt in which he was held by his father and his father's allies.

He was involved in a battle. I have no issue with him killing his enemy in battle.

But he shouldn't be allowed his freedom while he might still have enemies to kill.

he was not a soldier, he was a civilian volunteer.

He should have been shot & then rendered with the remains of a pig's large intestine.

[eyeball]

We also have to remember, in the Muslim world, parents are very much respected and Omar did what ever his dad told him to do without question, whatever that was.

I'm betting when Omar went to school in Toronto as a youngster our teachers likewise encouraged him to believe that obeying his parents was one of our society's most cherished values.

His parents probably raised him up to obey his teachers. What goes around...

[Guest American Woman]

I'm betting when Omar went to school in Toronto as a youngster our teachers likewise encouraged him to believe that obeying his parents was one of our society's most cherished values.

His parents probably raised him up to obey his teachers. What goes around...

[Deuce]

There's many views out there about this man and I would rather wait and hope on the TV networks, like 5th estate does a sit down interview with him after he is free from jail. In other words, I want to hear what he has to say, then I will judge him and I think that's the only fair way one can judge him. We also have to remember, in the Muslim world, parents are very much respected and Omar did what ever his dad told him to do without question, whatever that was. So I'm reserving judgement until Omar speaks.

Good post.

Obviously Khadr is no saint but I do believe that he was manipulated into doing what he did. His father and the older men around him were terrible influences and I wouldn't doubt that Omar legitimately thought of the soldier he killed as his sworn enemy. In addition as you pointed out the patriarchal hierarchy is - on the whole more revered in the Muslim community.

The question(s) that remains: Can he be repatriated and essentially unconvinced of what he was brainwashed into believing?

I'm looking forward to hearing him speak.

[Guest]

Yes, the side that was fighting his country. The side that was killing his country's citizens and allies.

He was in a battle with his country's enemies. You have no issue with that?

I'm not sure what you are saying here. He was fighting for one side and he killed an enemy combatant. I do admit I'm not aware of his nationality, but I doubt he considered himself a Canadian first, and I doubt he considered the Americans his allies. Are you of the position he should have been executed for treason?

Why? - If there's no issue with what he was doing?

Like I said, he should be kept locked up as a prisoner of war until hostilities cease. Given the current conflict, that will be a life sentence, but I've no problem with that.

[Guest]

he was not a soldier, he was a civilian volunteer.

He should have been shot & then rendered with the remains of a pig's large intestine.

All the best soldiers are civilian volunteers. The alternative is conscription, and conscripts don't do nearly as good a job.

Edited September 29, 2012 by bcsapper

[eyeball]

he was not a soldier, he was a civilian volunteer.

He should have been shot & then rendered with the remains of a pig's large intestine.

Our government is no doubt very proud of the tone it's actions have struck amongst the people.

[Guest]

Yes he should. That we continue to withhold it speaks volumes to our own contempt for the fact he was a kid. Our contempt is even worse than our enemies, simply because we should know better.

Tell that to the family of his first victim.

[Guest American Woman]

Like I said, he should be kept locked up as a prisoner of war until hostilities cease. Given the current conflict, that will be a life sentence, but I've no problem with that.

Nations generally release prisoners of war back into their enemy's societies, as POWs generally are the enemy, not said nation's citizens.

Edited September 29, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest]

Nations generally release prisoners of war back into the enemy's societies, as POW are generally the enemy, not said nations citizens.

They release them when the hostilites cease, so there is little chance that they will still have the urge to kill someone. That's why I have a problem with his release.

I concede the point about to where he should be released.

[Deuce]

Like I said, he should be kept locked up as a prisoner of war until hostilities cease. Given the current conflict, that will be a life sentence, but I've no problem with that.

Hostilities can't cease with a terrorist organization. There will always be people willing to blow themselves up to spread a message, and most of the time they use a well known organizations name to further the magnitude of their act.

Seems a tad unfair IMO.

Bsapper - I'll put you in jail until cows produce pork.

[Guest]

Hostilities can't cease with a terrorist organization. There will always be people willing to blow themselves up to spread a message, and most of the time they use a well known organizations name to further the magnitude of their act.

Seems a tad unfair IMO.

Bsapper - I'll put you in jail until cows produce pork.

The idea behind releasing pows is that they no longer have an axe to grind and therefore it's a safe enough thing to do.

It might be unfair to keep religious fanatics under lock and key forever but it's fairer in the long run than releasing them, as the body count isn't as high.

If I was out there killing people who didn't believe cows produced pork, I think you'd be justified.

[eyeball]

Tell that to the family of his first victim.

Alleged victim, according to a coerced confession given to a kangaroo court set up by a nation with a record of criminally abusing it's POW's.

Who or what side are you on anyway? There's definitely more than a few in the moral quagmire that surrounds Omar Khadr as far as the eye can see.

Edited September 29, 2012 by eyeball

[Guest]

Alleged victim, according to a coerced confession given to a kangaroo court set up by a nation with a record of criminally abusing it's POW's.

Who or what side are you on anyway? There's definitely more than one in the moral quagmire that surrounds Omar Khadr as far as the eye can see.

I'm on America's side. Canada's, Britains, etc. I'm a British/Canadian citizen with a soft spot for our allies to the south.

I'm on any side that puts religion last when making decisions. I'm on any side that respects freedom of speech and freedom of expression along with freedom of religion, and understands that it's okay to be offended and yes, even outraged, without ever getting anyone else to do anything about it.

As for Kadhr, I only know what I hear in the media, and then I have to decide on my own views on the issue. There might be a lot more than meets the eye in this case. When it meets my eye, I'll change my mind, if the new information warrants a change of mind.

[Deuce]

The idea behind releasing pows is that they no longer have an axe to grind and therefore it's a safe enough thing to do.

It might be unfair to keep religious fanatics under lock and key forever but it's fairer in the long run than releasing them, as the body count isn't as high.

If I was out there killing people who didn't believe cows produced pork, I think you'd be justified.

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances in this situation. I think it is fair to say that he isn't a regular PoW. It's very complicated when you take into consideration the country he is born in, the country or group his parents may have coerced into thinking he must fight for, which countries have allies with which countries.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that a terrified young Omar simply did what he was guided to do by those influential around him.. It doesn't exclude him from his actions but it at least gives some reason to them.

When I say I think it's unfair that he arbitrarily be locked up for the rest of his life, I didn't mean that he should be walked out of Jail this moment - given a key to the city and a condo downtown. Just that if he were to pass psychological examinations by certified professionals for an extended period of time, seemed contrite and remorseful and was willing or had a desire to work in a field where he might be able to help other "child soldiers" get over the acts they have committed he would be serving himself, society as well as Canada far better than being behind bars for eternity.

[Deuce]

As for Kadhr, I only know what I hear in the media, and then I have to decide on my own views on the issue. There might be a lot more than meets the eye in this case. When it meets my eye, I'll change my mind, if the new information warrants a change of mind.

You seem fairly intelligent based on the limited amount of posts I've seen so far, surely you understand that you can't sit back and wait for the information to find you. You must be proactive and diversive when it comes to finding stories about current events, especially politics as each outlet will have a spin.

[eyeball]

I'm on America's side. Canada's, Britains, etc. I'm a British/Canadian citizen with a soft spot for our allies to the south.

I'm on any side that puts religion last when making decisions. I'm on any side that respects freedom of speech and freedom of expression along with freedom of religion, and understands that it's okay to be offended and yes, even outraged, without ever getting anyone else to do anything about it.

I was raised and taught to believe the institutions who were instilling these things in me believed these things too.

As for Kadhr, I only know what I hear in the media, and then I have to decide on my own views on the issue. There might be a lot more than meets the eye in this case. When it meets my eye, I'll change my mind, if the new information warrants a change of mind.

He was freakin' kid for Christ's or some such deities sake when he was illegally turned into a soldier. If that hasn't changed your mind by now I doubt there's very much else that will.

In any case and as I said to AW, it's a refreshing change to see at least some of Khadr's tormentors are finally using terms that are less ambiguous i.e., he was a soldier, it was a war, and he was a POW. There are pages and pages in thread after thread in this forum where you folks have fought tooth and nail to avoid using them.

[Guest]

You seem fairly intelligent based on the limited amount of posts I've seen so far, surely you understand that you can't sit back and wait for the information to find you. You must be proactive and diversive when it comes to finding stories about current events, especially politics as each outlet will have a spin.

Thank you. What I meant was, I only have what the CBC, BBC, National Post, etc will tell me. Actually, the National Post is the only media outlet that I use that I wouldn't consider left leaning. So I imagine I already have seen whatever is to be said in Mr Kadhr's favour. I'm not going to the Georgia Straight for my news.

[Guest]

I was raised and taught to believe the institutions who were instilling these things in me believed these things too.

He was freakin' kid for Christ's or some such deities sake when he was illegally turned into a soldier. If that hasn't changed your mind by now I doubt there's very much else that will.

In any case and as I said to AW, it's a refreshing change to see at least some of Khadr's tormentors are finally using terms that are less ambiguous i.e., he was a soldier, it was a war, and he was a POW. There are pages and pages in thread after thread in this forum where you folks have fought tooth and nail to avoid using them.

I've always considered him a POW. I just joined today.

I know he was a kid, and if any of those who introduced him to the war are still around I'm all in favour of trying them as war criminals.

I just don't think he should be walking around free. He was an impressionable (I assume) kid who has just spent the better part of a decade in the company of religious fanatics who think there is no better end than to die taking a few infidels with you.

[Deuce]

I've always considered him a POW. I just joined today.

I know he was a kid, and if any of those who introduced him to the war are still around I'm all in favour of trying them as war criminals.

I just don't think he should be walking around free. He was an impressionable (I assume) kid who has just spent the better part of a decade in the company of religious fanatics who think there is no better end than to die taking a few infidels with you.

Well I don't agree with your view on this particular topic I can definitely see where you are coming from and that you got to that view on a logical road based on fact. That is all I can ever ask for when discussing something with somebody. I don'd mind disagreeing with somebody in the end, it's when they try and force their views or use straw man arguments that I start to get annoyed.

[Guest]

Well I don't agree with your view on this particular topic I can definitely see where you are coming from and that you got to that view on a logical road based on fact. That is all I can ever ask for when discussing something with somebody. I don'd mind disagreeing with somebody in the end, it's when they try and force their views or use straw man arguments that I start to get annoyed.

Basically that's all I want too. The site I used to argue on went down, and I tried just arguing with folk on the CBC for a while, but it's too cumbersome, and the mods there hate me. Well, that's how it seems.

[Bonam]

News sites and comment threads on news stories tend to be a cesspit, not a place for real debate, in my experience. But as it may seem now and then, MLW generally tends to have much better debate than that.

Welcome

[Guest]

News sites and comment threads on news stories tend to be a cesspit, not a place for real debate, in my experience. But as it may seem now and then, MLW generally tends to have much better debate than that.

Welcome

Thanks. I'm looking forward to many cold winter evenings agreeing and disagreeing to my heart's content.