Muslims in Toronto demand end to freedom of speech and expression.

[Black Dog]

We already know your and Michael Hardner's prescription: keep on importing diseased and uneducated third-world trash, Islamists, communists, and Nazis until "scientific evidence" is presented from "experts" and "authorities" to tell us that this is a bad idea.

Not only is this a feeble strawman it doesn't answer the question at hand.

It's not possible to have a reasonable or honest discussion with either of you leftists.

That's odd. Myself and MH have plenty of reasonable and honest discussion about lots of subjects with lots of posters. I think the problem might be you and the repetitive, dull drone you emit as though you are some sort of human vuvuzela.

When it comes to the issue of immigration, I'll happily listen to someone like Argus, who is capable of articulating a point, supporting it logically and, above all, doing so civilly. You are about as enlightening and informative as a case of diarrhea, and far less pleasant.

[Black Dog]

If they're raised in a community which has a different language, culture and beliefs, and spend most of their time among that community, what makes you think they will assimilate into the larger, surrounding community?

Because it's happened before with other groups?

I think it's safe to assume that few communities are surrounded by non-permeable barriers. We have seen that second and third generation immigrants are better assimilated than their parents and grandparents as they are exposed to western culture through school, the media and their everyday reality. I'd say that the amount of information exchanged every day makes it harder to keep a community locked down now than it was in the past.

[DogOnPorch]

Because it's happened before with other groups?

Did the Irish have this little gem?

http://quran.com/5/51

[Black Dog]

Did the Irish have this little gem?

http://quran.com/5/51

Yes because when I think of living in religious and cultural harmony, the first people I think of are the Irish.

[madmax]

How's the posting on the GameSpot boards going?

Now that is ironic. Kraychik calls out videogame players....

KRAYCHIK = BUSTED LMAO.... :lol:

GameSpot

http://www.gamespot.com/search/?qs=Kraychik&filter=forum

[DogOnPorch]

Yes because when I think of living in religious and cultural harmony, the first people I think of are the Irish.

That's why I asked.

[madmax]

Would you say the Amish have assimilated into Canada's larger culture?

For that matter, have natives assimilated into our larger culture after centuries of interaction?

I was thinking something similar.

However, People of many religions including Islam, begin adopting a Western Lifestyle when in Canada. Not all of course, and some never will. Its not alot different then some of the other cultures.

However, long before "Multi Culturalism" Mennonites settled here and for the most part, have stuck to their cultural traditions. Some have adopted mechanised machinery and such but alot of the culture and practices remain.

I tend to buy my ducks/chickens/eggs and Maple syrup from the farms.

I quite like it.

As for Natives... assimilation takes many forms. If one looks at the changes in wardrobe, practices and such, Natives adopted many of the "European" ways and dress and also have adopted virtually the same lifestyle as many Canadians. The differences in Nation to Nation engagement or independence or practices between Bands and the Crown remain.

So hard core assimilation has not proven successful even after abducting their children.

But culturally yes alot of assimilation and adoption of Western Practices already exist.

Including Religion or rejection of it.

Edited October 1, 2012 by madmax

[DogOnPorch]

But, I suppose we could just ignore the Koran. Nobody takes it literally....

[Black Dog]

ed

Edited October 1, 2012 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

That's why I asked.

Nah, you're just pooping.

[DogOnPorch]

Nah, you're just pooping.

You're ignoring the Koran's words. I didn't make 'em up. Nice of you to blame me, though.

[Black Dog]

You're ignoring the Koran's words. I didn't make 'em up. Nice of you to blame me, though.

Well, perhaps you could expand on your point and show why it's relevant. But we know that's not your style, which is to crap on the carpet and scamper away.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/photo-deemed-offensive-to-islam-sparks-riots-temple-burning-in-bangladesh/article4578273/?service=mobile more violence.

No need to post these - there's nothing useful to be got from them unless you can break out by cultural causes. Thanks.

[DogOnPorch]

Well, perhaps you could expand on your point and show why it's relevant. But we know that's not your style, which is to crap on the carpet and scamper away.

Let's see. You make a blanket statement about immigration and assimilation that is a logical fallacy then go on to ignore the Koran's own words about assimilation.

Yup...that's my point.

[Black Dog]

Let's see. You make a blanket statement about immigration and assimilation that is a logical fallacy then go on to ignore the Koran's own words about assimilation.

Yup...that's my point.

Another turd. Explain the logical fallacy and the relevance of the Koran passage.

[madmax]

Did the Irish have this little gem?

http://quran.com/5/51

Kinda hard to rewrite the Bible to address a religion that arrives 600years later.....

I also think few here have time for a "Religious" debate on whats in who's book and when. If you want to go down that path, lay them all out on the table and have at her. Juicy bits everywhere.

But then move the thread over to "RELIGION"

Now since you are being a bit of an ASS and want to drag the Irish into this.

I happened to be outside Paddington station "Ironically reading a sign that said, Watchout for Pickpockets"

18 February 1991: A bomb explodes in Paddington Station, damaging the building's roof but causing no casualties. Three hours later another bomb explodes at Victoria Station. One man is killed and 38 people injured.

Me and my girlfriend shit ourselves.

Now DogonPorch.... eat it...

And here is something else to chew on....

16 May 1990: Wembley IRA detonate a bomb underneath a minibus killing Sgt Charles Chapman (The Queen's Regiment) and injuring another soldier. No one was ever convicted of Sgt Chapman's murder.

20 July 1990: London Stock Exchange, the IRA detonated a large bomb at the London Stock Exchange causing massive damage.

7 February 1991 Mortar attack on 10 Downing Street[18]

18 February 1991: A bomb explodes in Paddington Station, damaging the building's roof but causing no casualties. Three hours later another bomb explodes at Victoria Station. One man is killed and 38 people injured.

10 January 1992: Small device exploded. No injuries, Whitehall Place, London SW1.

28 February 1992: A bomb explodes at London Bridge station injuring 29 people.

10 April 1992 Baltic Exchange bombing: A large bomb explodes outside 30 St Mary Axe in the City of London. The bomb was contained in a large white truck and consisted of a fertilizer device wrapped with a detonation cord made from Semtex. It killed three people: Paul Butt, aged 29, Baltic Exchange employee Thomas Casey, aged 49, and 15-year old Danielle Carter. Several people were critically or severely injured. The bomb also caused damage to surrounding buildings (many of which were further damaged by a second bomb the following year). The bomb caused £800 million worth of damage—£200 million more than the total damage costs resulting from all 10,000 previous explosions that had occurred relating to the Troubles in Northern Ireland. A new skyscaper was built on the site of the previous historic building.[19]

11 April 1992: A large bomb explodes underneath the A406 flyover at Staples Corner, causing serious damage to roads and nearby buildings including a B&Q DIY store and causing the closure of the junction. The blast was large enough to be felt many miles away.

12 October 1992: A device exploded in the gentlemen's toilet of the Sussex Arms public house in Covent Garden, killing one person and injuring four others.

16 November 1992: the IRA planted a bomb at Canary Wharf in the Docklands. The device was spotted by security guards and was deactivated safely.

28 January 1993: a bomb exploded in a litter bin outside Harrods, injuring four people.[20]

27 February 1993: a bomb exploded in a litter bin outside a McDonalds restaurant in Camden Town, injuring several people.[21]

24 April 1993 Bishopsgate bombing: the IRA detonated a huge truck bomb in the City of London at Bishopsgate, It killed journalist Ed Henty, injured over 40 people, and causing approximately £1 billion worth of damage,[22] including the near destruction of St Ethelburga's Bishopsgate church, and serious damage to Liverpool Street station. Police had received a coded warning, but were still evacuating the area at the time of the explosion. The insurance payments required were so large that Lloyd's of London almost went bankrupt under the strain, and there was a crisis in the London insurance market. The area had already suffered damage from the Baltic Exchange bombing the year before.

October 1993: Over eight days, a series of IRA bombs were left in various London locations. On 1 October, four bombs were left on Finchley Road, three of which exploded, causing damage to buildings and several injuries caused by falling glass. On 4 October, pairs of bombs were left in Highgate (where one failed to explode), Hornsey, and Archway, causing significant damage but no injuries. On 8 October, bombs exploded in Staples Corner and West Hampstead, again causing damage but no injuries.

March 1994 Heathrow Airport, The IRA launched a series of mortar attacks on the airport, partially paralysing the capital's main air route.

9 February 1996 Docklands bombing: the IRA bombed the South Quay area of London, killing two people.

15 February 1996: A 5-pound (2.3 kg) bomb placed in a telephone box is disarmed by Police on the Charing Cross Road.

18 February 1996: An IRA bomb detonates prematurely on a bus travelling along Aldwych in central London, killing Edward O'Brien, the IRA volunteer transporting the device and injuring eight others.[23]

29 April 1997: Britain's transport industry claimed minimum losses of £30 million after a series of IRA bomb alerts in southern England brought traffic to a standstill. In the London area, the Heathrow airport and the M25 motorway were closed

[DogOnPorch]

Another turd. Explain the logical fallacy and the relevance of the Koran passage.

Your fallacy = some immigrants assimilate ∴ all immigrants will eventually assimilate.

Surah 5:51 speaks for itself. That particular one is what is known as the liberal translation. Are you saying Muslims do not take their own Koran as the holy word of God?

O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

[DogOnPorch]

Now DogonPorch.... eat it...

I'll refrain from reporting you for your personal attack.

I was also a casualty of the Provo IRA back in 1973.

[Michael Hardner]

My view, and I would love to be proved wrong, is that our immigration policies have not been sufficiently well thought out and analyzed in either their economic or social impact on our country.

I would imagine that you are 100% correct.

Luckily, you have just the PM in power to address this and he's conservative to boot !

you ignored my last point, that there are millions of immigrants wanting to get into Canada from cultures that have much less strife with our own and yet we continue to invite many immigrants from parts of the world that we know are experiencing certain... issues, issues that make it more likely that people from there may not be so happy with Canada and its values and policies. And this is done without proper screening of these immigrants for the benefit of Canadians. Why is this so?

I don't know that they grade immigrants from regions as much as they do based on employability.

Immigrants not happy with Canada, yet they are applying to come here ?

I think Kraychik suggested a screening questionnaire that sounds workable.

[Michael Hardner]

What Michael Hardner is essentially telling you to do is not to believe your lying eyes when you look around at the failures of Toronto, Ottawa, and Vancouver.

I don't have much of any framework that would regard this as a failure. I heard a piece on CBC Radio saying that Germany was studying our model to better deal with immigrants.

I was an immigrant, when I was young, in Europe and our management of such things was better than what I saw over there.

Michael Hardner is just making things up.

I actually provided a link, which is better than you do.

Also, I caution you against accusing people of lying, especially given your propensity to post emotional responses ("sick" and "disgusting" reactions et al.) and the old saying about glass houses.

Contemporary immigration and "multiculturalism" policies are a disaster.

More opinion posted as if it were fact.

[Black Dog]

Your fallacy = some immigrants assimilate ∴ all immigrants will eventually assimilate.

Except that's not what I said. Past experience with immigration shows assimilation to be the norm, therefore it's reasonable to expect that Muslims will, by and large, assimilate. It's a broad statement to be sure, but logically sound.

Surah 5:51 speaks for itself. That particular one is what is known as the liberal translation. Are you saying Muslims do not take their own Koran as the holy word of God?

Beats me. Muslims are a big group and they are not monolithic in their beliefs or the extent to which they adhere to them.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

The funny thing is this just reinforces my earlier point about the widespread omission of relevant stories by most of the Canadian media landscape, with the most recent example being the nearly complete burial of the story linked in the original post reported on by Sun News. Out of sight, out of mind!

We don't need "stories". "Stories" are what you read to youngsters at bedtime. We need facts and data, and intelligent dialogue. Your repeated distaste for such things really says it all.

[dre]

Now that you mention it, I do. Maybe once a year or so new information comes up that's worth discussing.

No. There's usually a lot of news and activity around that issue.

Not always, but almost always yes.

It's not that, it's just that there's nothing new that impacts the discussion. Another honour killing, another bombing on the other side of the world isn't much of a change. The recent riot in Libya and the protest in Canada, though, is relevant.

How many new threads on this topic, though ?

There's no agreement on these topics, but since there isn't even a foundation for discussion then the "much to discuss" can't really be discussed with any progression.

The web seems like a poor forum for discussing issues that span a long timeframe. The best conversation seems to happen when discussing relatively new events. But with something like climate change, or the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, or abortion... those issues have been talked about for so long that people have made up their minds, siloed themselves off into groups, and adopted a bunker mentality. No matter how the threads initially spin off you end up with the same people making the same points they have dozens of times.

[DogOnPorch]

Except that's not what I said. IPast experience with immigration shows assimilation to be the norm, therefore it's reasonable to expect that Muslims will, by and large, assimilate.

Beats me. Muslims are a big group and they are not monolithic in their beliefs or the extent to which they adhere to them.

Well that's a somewhat better post than attacking me personally, but you still carry-on with the fallacy. "Appeal to probability" or some similar one like that.

Muslims aren't monolithic? OK...lol. I suppose all those riots are over gas prices going through the roof...

[Michael Hardner]

Why would you assume a group which is unlike any previous group, and operating under entirely different circumstances, would assimilate as previous groups did?

Every group is different from any other group in some respect. I'm looking for the "curse" that renders this particular group inassimilatable (?). Keep in mind that historically every new group of immigrants is described as being a problem.