Muslims in Toronto demand end to freedom of speech and expression.

Argus · October 1, 2012

They have to go to school and mix, they have to work ... every other group has done this and assimilated.

In the high school nearest me, the student body is about 90% immigrant, most of them a mix of Somalian and Lebanese. Many Canadian schools have a VERY high proportion of immigrants, and so most of the students tend to hang around (naturally) with their own linguistic and cultural group. Explain how a Muslim is going to become assimilated into our society through attending such an institution.

kraychik · October 1, 2012

Not really, no. The quote doesn't mean anything here. There's no context, no explanation. It's a turd on the rug of this thread.

In other words, you can't connect the dots. There's plenty of context in this thread alone, and the verse doesn't need much explanation as it's pretty straightforward.

Anyway, I've done enough of my Nazi homework to know that radical Islam and national socialism are only related in so far as both belonging to the very large and nebulous category of "things people consider to be Bad Things."

Obviously you haven't done any "homework" on either Nazism or Islamism, otherwise you wouldn't be so stupefied about DogOnPorch's drawing of the clear parallels between these two ideologies. There are many core components that unify both Islamism and Nazism, and it'd be a waste of time for us to explain it to you because you lack both the honesty and competence to deal with the material.

kraychik · October 1, 2012

What, is there something about people born before that date that makes them incapable of keeping on topic in online discussion forums?

In other words, when relevant information is brought up that you don't understand or are unfamiliar with, then it is "off-topic", am I right?

kraychik · October 1, 2012

My complaint is that threads that say "I don't like this situation" with no opportunity for progessive discussion aren't useful.

Again, nobody is forcing you to be here. Twenty-eight pages of this thread in only a few days suggests that many people around here disagree with you. If you don't like it, you're welcome to click the red 'X' in the top right corner of your browser window.

Black Dog · October 1, 2012

That's exactly what you said. You're now trying to parse words. Despite all the terrorism going on around the world from Islamists, you still refuse to acknowledge the problem and the common denominator while it's smashing you in the face.

Cool, why don't you put it on YouTube.

Nobody ever said Muslims are monolithic.

That was the implication of DoPs little Koranic diversion. He may have meant something else, but it's hard for him to fully elucidate his views since he seems to limit himself to two-sentence posts.

More strawman argument desperation from our resident 40-something video gaming eternal bachelor.

:lol: I'm no Level 12 Rad racer, that's for sure.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Black Dog

DogOnPorch · October 1, 2012

Agreed and previous point taken...

My apologies..

Accepted and thank-you.

Black Dog · October 1, 2012

In other words, when relevant information is brought up that you don't understand or are unfamiliar with, then it is "off-topic", am I right?

Of course you're not right. Wouldn't want to break your streak, after all.

kraychik · October 1, 2012

Such as?

The entire Muslim takeover of the Middle East and Northern Africa, as an example? You think the region was 95% Muslim with everyone speaking Arabic since the beginning or time, I suppose?

Black Dog · October 1, 2012

In other words, you can't connect the dots. There's plenty of context in this thread alone, and the verse doesn't need much explanation as it's pretty straightforward.

I can connect the dots fine. But I like to hear people articulate their beliefs and why they think the way they do. If they can't do that in a place where the sole purpose is the exchange and discussion of ideas, if, like DoP, they drop little info nuggets devoid of context or any real thought or if, like you, they simply copy and paste the same tired overheated opinions again and again, there's not much point in giving them the time of day.

kraychik · October 1, 2012

Apparently discussion about the situation shall remain in a tiny box w/o reference to past situations. It's sort of like discussing the roots of the Viet-Nam War without bring-up WW2.

Of course the discussion will remain in the tiny box. We've got, on the one hand, Michael Hardner who wants to shut the thread down because it makes him uncomfortable. On the other hand, we've got Black Dog who thinks a Quran verse is off topic in a conversation about dealing with Islamism and a bunch of Muslims demanding that freedom of speech and expression be destroyed not only in Canada but worldwide.

Bring up an inconvenient truth, and it's "off-topic".

DogOnPorch · October 1, 2012

Of course the discussion will remain in the tiny box. We've got, on the one hand, Michael Hardner who wants to shut the thread down because it makes him uncomfortable. On the other hand, we've got Black Dog who thinks a Quran verse is off topic in a conversation about dealing with Islamism and a bunch of Muslims demanding that freedom of speech and expression be destroyed not only in Canada but worldwide.

Bring up an inconvenient truth, and it's "off-topic".

But, I never let that get in the way of a good beer. I'd share a drink with any of them provided they kept the potty mouth to a minimum.

Michael Hardner · October 1, 2012

You appear to be making light of the questions because the answers don't support your view.

No, because the answers are obvious I think...

What sets the likes of the Amish apart from other groups like, say, Ukrainians or Italians or Germans, who did assimilate?

They eschew technology and (some sects) don't pay taxes, I suppose.

I would suggest it was a rigid, religiously based culture.

Wait - are you suggesting the Amish are a problem ? If so -> Let's see - how often are people suggesting that they be dealt with, or that they don't belong in Canada on here ? Right, pretty much never.

I saw Muslim kids at Nuit Blanche singing Western songs and hanging around non Muslims, and I see that in the mall all the time. Amish, not so much. In fact, never.

And the fact you haven't heard of problems with the Amish is utterly irrelevant. The Amish are pacifists. No one has ever said the same about Muslims.

Yes, a US president said "Islam is peace" not very long ago. Google it.

And despite your beliefs, according to what I've read, the younger generation of raised-in-Canada Muslims are MORE, not LESS religious than their parents, and tend to be more radical in their religious beliefs, as well.

The piece you read is perhaps the same one I read from the UK - short on stats and highly biased from the outset. Otherwise, post it. Better yet if it's not an opinion piece.

Michael Hardner · October 1, 2012

It is tacky, apparently, to keep bringing al-Husseini into any discussion let alone one about militant Islam and the suppression of free speech.

Don't confuse tacky with refusal to supply any basis. Tacky arguments can at least be dealt with, as opposed to non-arguments like "I'll reply when I feel like it".

wyly · October 1, 2012

The entire Muslim takeover of the Middle East and Northern Africa, as an example? You think the region was 95% Muslim with everyone speaking Arabic since the beginning or time, I suppose?

not to be compared to the 100% christian takeover of europe, north and south america, do you think those regions were christian since the beginning of time? and the domination of the english language throughout the world?...history is not your strong suit...

Michael Hardner · October 1, 2012

In the high school nearest me, the student body is about 90% immigrant, most of them a mix of Somalian and Lebanese. Many Canadian schools have a VERY high proportion of immigrants, and so most of the students tend to hang around (naturally) with their own linguistic and cultural group.

Not my experience at all. I went to a high school in Europe with students holding a diverse set of backgrounds as it is in Toronto today. I see kids hanging around people who are more like them personality wise. There is usually one black kid, two Chinese kids, an Indian kid and a white kid in the packs of mall rovers.

Tell you what - I'll go down for a coffee later and report back ok ?

Michael Hardner · October 1, 2012

Twenty-eight pages of this thread in only a few days suggests that many people around here disagree with you.

Although I complain about the (general) quality of threads like this, if they fall down too far then in fact a higher power gets involved.

DogOnPorch · October 1, 2012

Don't confuse tacky with refusal to supply any basis. Tacky arguments can at least be dealt with, as opposed to non-arguments like "I'll reply when I feel like it".

I think it's more that yourself and others wish to side step what the Koran actually says. The reasons the West can't cater to political Islam are there for the reading right in the Koran.

Black Dog · October 1, 2012

I think it's more that yourself and others wish to side step what the Koran actually says. The reasons the West can't cater to political Islam are there for the reading right in the Koran.

So your contention is that followers of "political Islam" (is that all Muslims in your view? Half? How many?) are fundamentally incapable of being assimilated into western society. Am I getting that about right? If not, what are you on about? This isn't Twitter: you can use as many words as you want.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Black Dog

Michael Hardner · October 1, 2012

The reasons the West can't cater to political Islam are there for the reading right in the Koran.

Why is the Koran more convincing than other Holy Books ?

The answers are usually: Oh, it's SO much more violent or that it's the culture.

DogOnPorch · October 1, 2012

So your contention is that followers of "political Islam" (is that all Muslim in your view? Half? How many?) are fundamentally incapable of being assimilated into western society. Am I getting that about right? If not, what are you on about? This isn't Twitter: you can use as many words as you want.

Why don't you tell me how many followers of Islam's billion + folks believe the Koran is the word of God? Not some guy writing about God...but God's actual words as delivered by his Prophet. There's your number.

kraychik · October 1, 2012

Why is the Koran more convincing than other Holy Books ?

The answers are usually: Oh, it's SO much more violent or that it's the culture.

See what I mean? This is pointless. Not a shred of honesty, and not a shred of competence. Michael Hardner does serve a purpose, though, he puts on full display the mentality of the left and the depths to which they will delude themselves.

madmax · October 1, 2012

Again, nobody is forcing you to be here. Twenty-eight pages of this thread in only a few days suggests that many people around here disagree with you.

That is the purpose of trolling.

dre · October 1, 2012

Despite all the terrorism going on around the world from Islamists, you still refuse to acknowledge the problem and the common denominator while it's smashing you in the face.

Theres a whole lot of common denominators is the problem.

And the problem with the idea that Islam itself or the Koran are the causative factor in terrorism is that a massive majority of muslims opposes terrorism. Studies and polls on public opinion in islamic countries show that Muslims support attacks on civilians even less than Americans.

The biggest common denominator in my estimation is fear. These people are terrified of some western nations, and they percieve us as an existential threat to them.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/120310/poll-arab-world-finds-fear-us-israel

A majority of respondents expressed a wish that Arab nations would work to build regional unity, and a strong majority said the "Palestinian question is the cause of all Arabs and not the Palestinians only," Jazeera wrote. Nearly three quarters saw the US and Israel as their countries' biggest threat, while just five percent named Iran.

DogOnPorch · October 1, 2012

Why is the Koran more convincing than other Holy Books ?

The answers are usually: Oh, it's SO much more violent or that it's the culture.

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its

votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in

a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic

apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident

habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of

commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the

followers of the Prophet rule or live.

---Winston

Black Dog · October 1, 2012

Why don't you tell me how many followers of Islam's billion + folks believe the Koran is the word of God? Not some guy writing about God...but God's actual words as delivered by his Prophet. There's your number.

I don't have that information. Do you?