Muslims in Toronto demand end to freedom of speech and expression.

jacee · September 28, 2012

So we all have to tip toe around the Muslims for fear they might get angry? People make fun of Christianity all the time yet no gets killed because of it.

Would you make a film like that?

Or does it take a criminal mind to be that hateful?

And does it not also take criminal minds to retaliate with violence?

Protest is ok. Extremist violence is not, and it is condemned by all:

“We would like to take this opportunity to appeal our youth to keep calm as we believe peace is the hallmark of Islam.”

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/9955601.Plea_for_calm_over_anti_Islam_film_protest/

Libyans storm militia building after protest in wake of ambassador’s death

Maggie Michael Associated Press BENGHAZI, LIBYA —Hundreds of protesters stormed the compound of one of Libya’s strongest armed Islamic extremist groups Friday, evicting militiamen and setting fire to their building as the attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans sparked a public backlash against armed groups that run rampant in the country and defy the country’s new, post-Moammar Gadhafi leadership.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1260851--libyans-storm-militia-building-after-protest-in-wake-of-ambassador-s-death

PIK · September 28, 2012

Would you make a film like that?

Or does it take a criminal mind to be that hateful?And does it not also take criminal minds to retaliate with violence?

Protest is ok. Extremist violence is not, and it is condemned by all:

We would like to take this opportunity to appeal our youth to keep calm as we believe peace is the hallmark of Islam.

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/9955601.Plea_for_calm_over_anti_Islam_film_protest/

Libyans storm militia building after protest in wake of ambassadors death

Maggie Michael Associated Press BENGHAZI, LIBYA Hundreds of protesters stormed the compound of one of Libyas strongest armed Islamic extremist groups Friday, evicting militiamen and setting fire to their building as the attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans sparked a public backlash against armed groups that run rampant in the country and defy the countrys new, post-Moammar Gadhafi leadership.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1260851--libyans-storm-militia-building-after-protest-in-wake-of-ambassador-s-death

Where is the outrage with that film about a women doing herself with a cross,that won the award in TO. people should die for that, buildings need to be burnt down. Oh sorry we are talking christians here , so we do not have to worry about them going on a rampage.

Edited September 28, 2012 by PIK

cybercoma · September 28, 2012

So we all have to tip toe around the Muslims for fear they might get angry? People make fun of Christianity all the time yet no gets killed because of it.

Tiptoe? So like, not making a massively insulting video is a really tough thing to do that you feel like you're tiptoeing?

Wild Bill · September 28, 2012

Where is the outrage with that film about a women doing herself with a cross,that won the award in TO. people should die for that, buildings need to be burnt down. Oh sorry we are talking christians here , so we do not have to worry about them going on a rampage.

Christian cultures that are extremely primitive and barbaric are virtually gone from the world.

Unfortunately, there are still a number of Islamic cultures that fit that description.

They are at least 1000 years behind the rest of the human race. They have access to modern weapons.

A very bad combination, indeed.

Michael Hardner · September 28, 2012

Christian cultures that are extremely primitive and barbaric are virtually gone from the world.

Unfortunately, there are still a number of Islamic cultures that fit that description.

They are at least 1000 years behind the rest of the human race. They have access to modern weapons.

A very bad combination, indeed.

Unless you're trying to make yourself feel proud about something you had nothing to do with, there's no point in bringing this up. There's no policy choice, and nothing to be done about religious terrorism that isn't already being done. It's just noise, and it does a disservice to those people of all religions who are positively moving forward into the future.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

Tiptoe? So like, not making a massively insulting video is a really tough thing to do that you feel like you're tiptoeing?

People engage in "massively insulting" speech and expression all the time. It's the nature of the most basic freedom in a free society. Who cares if people find the video "massively insulting"? Yet only one group engages in riots and terrorism when they're directed by their religious authorities to do so.

What a surprise, another socialist who expresses contempt for freedom of speech and expression.

Wild Bill · September 28, 2012

Unless you're trying to make yourself feel proud about something you had nothing to do with, there's no point in bringing this up. There's no policy choice, and nothing to be done about religious terrorism that isn't already being done. It's just noise, and it does a disservice to those people of all religions who are positively moving forward into the future.

So we should all just stick our heads in the sand? Ignore whatever happens?

There IS a policy choice! We should be extremely careful in screening immigrants from primitive and violent cultures, no matter WHAT religion!

I swear Michael, sometimes you seem to find it an acceptable price to have innocents die rather than give offense.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

Unless you're trying to make yourself feel proud about something you had nothing to do with, there's no point in bringing this up. There's no policy choice, and nothing to be done about religious terrorism that isn't already being done. It's just noise, and it does a disservice to those people of all religions who are positively moving forward into the future.

Sort of like these freedom-loving peaceful Muslims, right?

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/multiple-e-europe-tard-festers-including-sept-27-2012

"'>http://www.mrctv.org/videos/multiple-e-europe-tard-festers-including-sept-27-2012 Edited September 28, 2012 by kraychik

Michael Hardner · September 28, 2012

Sort of like these freedom-loving peaceful Muslims, right?

You prove my points with almost every post.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

So we should all just stick our heads in the sand? Ignore whatever happens?

There IS a policy choice! We should be extremely careful in screening immigrants from primitive and violent cultures, no matter WHAT religion!

Whoa, are you a racist?! A Nazi, perhaps?!

I swear Michael, sometimes you seem to find it an acceptable price to have innocents die rather than give offense.

In his mind, all religions and cultures are morally equivalent.

Edited September 28, 2012 by kraychik

kraychik · September 28, 2012

You prove my points with almost every post.

We're not the ones so obsessed with suicidal "political correctness" that we refuse to acknowledge correlations between those who come from certain backgrounds and a significantly lower likelihood of successful integration into our society. We're not the ones who refuse to exist that culture matters, and that values need to be taken into consideration when determining who to allow into Canada. We're not the ones who believe, against all evidence to the contrary, that immigration over the past couple of decades to Canada has been an economic boon.

Michael Hardner · September 28, 2012

So we should all just stick our heads in the sand? Ignore whatever happens?

How is blaming a religion on a web board helpful in any way ? It results in nothing and doesn't create discussion for the board either. It's just noise and it garners more noise from people who can rightfully pick apart at the scapegoating and generalizations that go with the bleating.

There IS a policy choice! We should be extremely careful in screening immigrants from primitive and violent cultures, no matter WHAT religion!

How do you achieve that, specifically ? There's no way to stop somebody from fooling the system whether it's a set criteria or whether you have a human being making the evaluation. Can things be run better ? Sure, but it's the government in the end and Harper's system or Chretien's system run pretty much the same.

I swear Michael, sometimes you seem to find it an acceptable price to have innocents die rather than give offense.

This is crap. You want to have half-minded dullwits go off on our web board because they don't like Muslims, and I disagree with it. It's mindless garbage, and please don't evoke the blood of innocents or some stupidity to justify allowing people to behave in a retarded manner. Nobody is buying that.

Michael Hardner · September 28, 2012

We're not the ones ...

Your kind has no useful suggestions on any policy changes to address these problems period. The noise to idea ratio is infinitely large. Just admit that you want to be able to denigrate Muslims without interference. I don't see any other reason why people would spend so much time and produce so few useful points.

Wild Bill · September 28, 2012

This is crap. You want to have half-minded dullwits go off on our web board because they don't like Muslims, and I disagree with it. It's mindless garbage, and please don't evoke the blood of innocents or some stupidity to justify allowing people to behave in a retarded manner. Nobody is buying that.

This is where once again we disagree, Michael. I'm starting to see how and why it happens.

You make a statement or suggest an approach and immediately I start to see the inevitable consequences. When I point them out you immediately deny them, without explaining why! You do not see any connection where to me the connection seemed obvious.

In this instance, you see criticism and negative observations of primitive cultures as an attack on their religion. You see it as giving those who genuinely are prejudiced against that religion ammunition for attacks.

I see things more simply. Primitive actions are primitive actions. Whatever religion is involved is a totally separate and irrelevant issue.

Michael, it is an obvious fact that some cultures are dangerous when they lead to conflicts with ours here in Canada.

I would put the Hare Krishnas under police observation if they showed a propensity for violent acts!

This is not prejudice. It is merely prudence.

The safety of EVERYONE in Canada is paramount! Worrying about true prejudice is a separate matter. If it would make you feel better, find a few REAL bigots and hang them!

Meanwhile, your approach to me seems in reality to be obstructionist! I see your way as making the dangers greater, not less.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

Your kind has no useful suggestions on any policy changes to address these problems period. The noise to idea ratio is infinitely large. Just admit that you want to be able to denigrate Muslims without interference. I don't see any other reason why people would spend so much time and produce so few useful points.

Ah, of course, accusations that I want to "denigrate Muslims". The last refuge of the left, which is ironically also your FIRST resort. Why? Because you refuse to acknowledge that culture and values not only different, but they MATTER. Especially when it comes to contemporary immigration and "multiculturalism" policies.

DogOnPorch · September 28, 2012

My culture is that of Bach, Armstrong, Einstein, Plato, et al. It's called Western culture and it is far superior to all others on the planet. That doesn't mean the primitives can't join, but they've gotta play the game.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

Your kind has no useful suggestions on any policy changes to address these problems period. The noise to idea ratio is infinitely large. Just admit that you want to be able to denigrate Muslims without interference. I don't see any other reason why people would spend so much time and produce so few useful points.

We have plenty of ideas, but you don't even recognise a problem in the first place. It doesn't bother you that we import anti-democratic third-worlders and others en masse to destroy our culture (which you would struggle to define) and economy (which you don't even understand). Moreover, if we even get started in a serious conversation (which you've demonstrated you're incapable of having), you need to slander your detractors as being unjustifiably bigoted against Muslims. It's desperate character assassination because you're unable of talking on substance. Yeah, we're just a bunch of hate-filled rural dumb hicks!

Michael Hardner · September 28, 2012

In this instance, you see criticism and negative observations of primitive cultures as an attack on their religion. You see it as giving those who genuinely are prejudiced against that religion ammunition for attacks.

Yes, I do see it that way.

Meanwhile, your approach to me seems in reality to be obstructionist! I see your way as making the dangers greater, not less.

Well what is your way ? Why has this criticism of so-called cultures (whether or not you agree with me that they can mask prejudice) not resulted in any agreed-on policy changes here ?

kraychik · September 28, 2012

My culture is that of Bach, Armstrong, Einstein, Plato, et al. It's called Western culture and it is far superior to all others on the planet. That doesn't mean the primitives can't join, but they've gotta play the game.

That sounds like racism to me. Are you suggesting we only permit people into Canada who like Bach and Beethoven? You're a Eurocentric Islamophobe!

Michael Hardner · September 28, 2012

Ah, of course, accusations that I want to "denigrate Muslims". The last refuge of the left, which is ironically also your FIRST resort. Why? Because you refuse to acknowledge that culture and values not only different, but they MATTER.

No - if you actually cared to respond to my posts, then you would have the answer why.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

Yes, I do see it that way.

Well what is your way ? Why has this criticism of so-called cultures (whether or not you agree with me that they can mask prejudice) not resulted in any agreed-on policy changes here ?

"So-called cultures"... I guess "culture" is too nebulous for you to grasp.

kraychik · September 28, 2012

No - if you actually cared to respond to my posts, then you would have the answer why.

The truth is you're afraid of this subject matter, that's why you engage in hysterics when your ridiculous positions are challenged. You're more committed to your ideology and false narratives than you are to honesty. It leaks out of every post of yours. I suppose you're still confounded over me accurately labelling you as a leftist, because in the mirror you sincerely see a pragmatist.