Argus Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 As for the OP, it seems rather a Rube Goldberg solution to talk of rewards for having children. The major difference working families have less children is because they have less disposable income and much less security. Plus we are taxed more than previous generations! The problem with that argument is I've seen no evidence richer families have larger families. In fact, I believe it's the opposite. Poorer families have more kids than rich families, or even upper middle class ones. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 As opposed to those hellholes with Swedish, Norwegian, German, Dutch, Swiss, Norwegian or Belgian values? No if they choose the above palces, then they have chosen those places and in part their values. Quote
jacee Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. Jerkalert! Quote
Black Dog Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 You might want to look into that and see how many criminals we allow to stay. Why don't you tell me. As for who's killed, the point is the difference between a cultures that celebrates the killings and one that condemns it. Every culture has murder, but some have excuses for certain kinds of murder. The victim is just as dead, but at least the perp is punished instead of congratulated. Are you suggesting honour killings aren't punished in Canada? If not, what's the issue? Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 without quizzing each and every immigrant you won't know why they came here, you can say it was because of our values but I doubt that, IMO it's opportunity...they likely had other destinations in mind as well but we accepted them or other countries rejected them... Or they wanted to come here. Is that so hard to believe? This is one of the top countries in the world. it wasn't a criticism, I was expanding on on your post canadians do not see/love/appreciate canada as an immigrant would...native born Canadians never had to make a conscious choice to be a canadian so there appreciation/love will be different... Well, some of us do, but.... Sorry bud but don't tell me that someone from lebanon or where ever is as passionate as I am or many real canadians People like you aren't real Canadians. that were born and raised with canadian values and morales,sure they are happy to be here but that is because of the secruity they have by being here. Sure, among other things. You just don't become canadian just by showing up here, it is bred into you. Bred into you, oh please. And my family showed up here in the late 1700's. People like you need to read up on canada before trudeau arrived on the scene. So are honour killings now a part of canadian life? WTF are you talking about? Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Your reply was unnecessarily insulting and personalizing. You might want to work on that. His post was insulting and personalizing. I wouldn't expect you to understand. Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 to turn someone down because they're an immigrant? that's pure racism the boss is trying to find an excuse to justify it,"hey we can't hire him because he may do something" immigrants are governed by the same labour laws as the rest of us are, they have no special privileges... I've encountered a number people pull the "unfair labour accusations" and they were all white native born canadians none were immigrants...the immigrants without fail have been among the hardest working uncomplaining co-workers I've had... job description trumps all...mrs wyly lost both human rights cases for being pregnant because the employers reclassified her job to tailor fit her temporary replacements resume, not a thing the judge could do, all nice and legal...the standard line for an employers not to hire someone even though they're highly qualified-"you weren't a good fit" and that's it they don't have to justify it any further... it's still racism, only instead of colour it's "where were you born"... sorry I don't believe it, you may honestly believe what you've been told is true but there's probably more to it... Wyly, I had DIRECT experience with what I posted! I think you are twisting things to resemble what you have experienced, which sound like different cases. My boss at that time was in no way a racist. He was just very pragmatic. The situations I described had actually happened and were common knowledge in that industry. I am not saying racism did not exist somewhere - just that these circumstances were not based on racism. ALL cases are not one way or the other! That is just not the way of the real world. It is not a black and white world. Believe it or not, sometimes it is NOT racism to discriminate, only pragmatic! I blame the fruitcake attitudes of the government. Business doesn't care about race. They care about making money! It is interesting that by the 90's companies in my industry often went out of their way to hire immigrants from the middle east, for the simple pragmatic reason that times had changed and there were many customers and engineers from that area working in the marketplace. It made good sense to have people of the same culture on the sales force who could deal with them. Making a customer more comfortable with you is a good first step to doing mutual business. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Black Dog Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 no, the US is doing a horrible job...you're being selective with who they do well with, "white people" and in the past not even then, the irish faced huge discrimination problems...but you ignore the balcks and hispanic issues... Immigrants Assimilate More Successfully in the U.S. Than in Europe same issue, american blacks were forced immigration...discrimination and lack of integration.. You mean slavery? Kinda different from voluntary immigration. myself being european(dual citizenship) I'll choose to disagree you have no way of substantiating that... Does North America have any legitimate and popular political parties with explicitly racist platforms? How strong is the far-right here compared to over there, especially Eastern Europe? How do we compare in terms of antisemitism? What North American countries have laws like France's hijab law that explicitly target "foreigners"? my info obviously better than yours, my mother was born in Germany but her parents weren't German, she turned downed an offer by the German government to accept citizenship even though she hasn't lived there since 1926...a child born in Germany to non-german parents does not get automatic citizenship one of the parents must have permanent resident status, this isn't an anti turkish law my mother was born in germany many decades before there were an turkish migrant workers in germany... -to acquire German citizenship at birth if at least one parent: -has a permanent residence permit; and -has been residing in Germany for at least eight years. In Canada and the U.S. you need only be born here to be a citizen. So tell me how your anecdote shows Europe is better at assimilating people when their laws seem designed for the express purpose of making citizenship difficult for foreigners to acquire? Quote
carepov Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I'm curious about this. Would more government incentives such as national subsidized daycare and more added benefits equal more Canadians having more babies? We have to find a way to make having babies more rewarding so that we can rely less on outside sources for our ongoing shortage. I don't think that people not born here could love this country as much as I do. That is a problem. We need more Canadians who will feel a sense of pride in being Canadian, just Canadian. Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. The average immigrant is less likely to be a criminal than the average non-immigrant. The average immigrant knows more about Canadian history and government than the average non-immigrant. Based on these facts, I would say that on average, immigrants love Canada at least as much as non-immigrants. Quote
dre Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 The reasons for our low birthrate are cultural. Government programs to encourage domestic births might make a tiny difference but they arent going to do much. At the end of the day... Having a large family is no longer valued by our society. Stay at home parents are not valued in our society. Whats valued is for both parents to pursue careers and buy as much shiny stuff they can and as big a house as possible. And walmart workers dont need kids to work at their family farm or business either. Dont worry, this will all change after the apocalypse! Just gotta sit tight Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
jacee Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. Jerkalert! Quote
madmax Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I'm curious about this. Would more government incentives such as national subsidized daycare and more added benefits equal more Canadians having more babies? We have to find a way to make having babies more rewarding so that we can rely less on outside sources for our ongoing shortage. I don't think that people not born here could love this country as much as I do. That is a problem. We need more Canadians who will feel a sense of pride in being Canadian, just Canadian. Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. Luckily Mr. Canada can no longer procreate. The mold is broken Quote
wyly Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I disagree... it probably has all to do with colour! Do you think that this employer would accuse someone who is a Dutch immigrant of being able to "pull the race card"? Nope. WB is talking about the dark skinned immigrants. The white immigrants are probably A-OK. that's good point... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Argus Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I disagree... it probably has all to do with colour! Do you think that this employer would accuse someone who is a Dutch immigrant of being able to "pull the race card"? Nope. WB is talking about the dark skinned immigrants. The white immigrants are probably A-OK. I wonder how they feel about dark skinned Canadians who could "pull the race card"? Do they avoid hiring them too? It only has to do with race in that dark skinned people can pull the race card and others can't. So it's more a reaction to bureaucratic threat than to a given race. I.e, if blondes were known to often go to the human rights commissions when fired then people would be equally reluctant to hire them. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 No if they choose the above palces, then they have chosen those places and in part their values. My point is that most immigrants are choosing a place due to economic reasons, and have little idea what the 'values' are until they're in the process of moving here. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 People like you aren't real Canadians. So let me see if I understand this. You feel the right to decide who constitutes a 'real Canadian' and yet are indignant and insulting towards other people who also choose that right for themselves.... Because your criteria are so much more noble? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 His post was insulting and personalizing. I wouldn't expect you to understand. It wasn't insulting or personalizing, notwithstanding that you were offended by it. Are you going to whine next time you're sent to the penalty box? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 The average immigrant is less likely to be a criminal than the average non-immigrant. The average immigrant knows more about Canadian history and government than the average non-immigrant. Based on these facts, I would say that on average, immigrants love Canada at least as much as non-immigrants. I don't see any evidence to support those statements. I've seen some evidence the first might be true nationwide, but certainly is not true in Ontario. There's no evidence the second is true at all, and based on my interaction with immigrants I find it EXTREMELY unlikely. Most seem to know very little about Canada. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 So let me see if I understand this. You feel the right to decide who constitutes a 'real Canadian' and yet are indignant and insulting towards other people who also choose that right for themselves.... Because your criteria are so much more noble? The point was to show how ridiculous the assertion was. It wasn't insulting or personalizing, notwithstanding that you were offended by it. I don't think that people not born here could love this country as much as I do. That is a problem. We need more Canadians who will feel a sense of pride in being Canadian, just Canadian. Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. pretty insulting....and pretty personal for any Canadian, not born here, who happens to love this country. Quote
wyly Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 No if they choose the above palces, then they have chosen those places and in part their values. all the western euro countries are great places to live and work...many americans and canadians under the impression these are the only two destinations of merit, but europe has 1.6 to 2 million immigrants per yr so obviously there is something attractive there.. often when someone makes a decision to immigrate there are a number of excellent options sometimes it comes down to which country says yes first... my parents had three options Austarlia, S Africa and canada,all three countries accepted their immigration application...the decision to come to canada had nothing to do with "canadian values" they knew nothing of canadian values ... Australia and S Africa were ruled out as it was too far for return visits to europe, that left canada, distance was the deciding factor ... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 21, 2012 Report Posted September 21, 2012 Or they wanted to come here. Is that so hard to believe? This is one of the top countries in the world.there are a number of great countries that immigrants want to go to why is that so hard to believe? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 21, 2012 Report Posted September 21, 2012 Wyly, I had DIRECT experience with what I posted! I think you are twisting things to resemble what you have experienced, which sound like different cases. My boss at that time was in no way a racist. He was just very pragmatic. The situations I described had actually happened and were common knowledge in that industry. the manner you related the story to us was that you had no first hand knowledge of problems with immigrants, it was your bosses opinion it was something that could happen, not something you witnessed..."Wish I could hire him but I don't dare!" said my boss. "What do you mean?" I asked him."Well, the problem is that if he doesn't work out I could have a helluva time trying to get rid of him!" Instantly, I understood. If we fired the fellow he could pull the race card. Even if we eventually won, it would cost us a LOT of time and money! nothing in that post indicates that you definitively knew it had happened before, only what your boss speculated could happen...there is nothing in canadian labour laws that protect immigrants any more than any canadian worker...if there is please post a link to that site...firing without just cause effects all employees in canada not just immigrants...not sure a "white" male from the middle-east pulls the race card... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 21, 2012 Report Posted September 21, 2012 The reasons for our low birthrate are cultural. Government programs to encourage domestic births might make a tiny difference but they arent going to do much. At the end of the day... Having a large family is no longer valued by our society. Stay at home parents are not valued in our society. Whats valued is for both parents to pursue careers and buy as much shiny stuff they can and as big a house as possible. birth rates are dropping all around globe...low birth rate is directly linked with education, as education improves birth rates drop...you can have a better life with fewer kids, and the kids you do have will have a better life as well... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Melanie_ Posted September 21, 2012 Report Posted September 21, 2012 Thank Heaven! Wyly, I once had a manager show me a resume that came in for a position. The qualifications were excellent but the applicant was a visible minority fresh from the middle east. "Wish I could hire him but I don't dare!" said my boss. "What do you mean?" I asked him. "Well, the problem is that if he doesn't work out I could have a helluva time trying to get rid of him!" Instantly, I understood. If we fired the fellow he could pull the race card. Even if we eventually won, it would cost us a LOT of time and money! So the guy's qualifications were excellent, your boss wanted to hire him, but didn't do so because he was a visible minority. He didn't hire him because he thought that maybe, perhaps, someday, a problem would arise that they couldn't resolve, and this guy just might, perhaps, accuse him of racism. And you don't see that as racist? Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
Smallc Posted September 21, 2012 Report Posted September 21, 2012 there are a number of great countries that immigrants want to go to why is that so hard to believe? I didn't say otherwise....you implied that Canada was a last resort that will accept anyone. Quote
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