Damn Quebec!

[wyly]

Does that not depend on the deal the government of Quebec wants? Separatist Quebec governments want Quebec to have all the powers of a sovereign state, thereby making it no longer a part of the federation of Canada.

well obviously they want those powers because they want to be separate state and when they have them then ya they are a separate state and not part of canada, that's their goal...if they want to be completely sovereign and still have equalization payments, that's not going to happen...there are countries that have unusual relationships, Andorra, sovereign but still dependent on spain and france I believe(not a 100% sure), not sure exactly how that works...Monaco also has a special arrangement with france...and san Marino has another with Italy...

Extend that deal to all provinces and what do you have?

if all the provinces want to operate semi-autonomously on some issues let them...

I suppose what we need to do is be open to all possibilities, 30 yrs ago many canadians thought of Quebeckers as traitors favoured calling in the troops(some still do), today we're more open minded but we still need to cool of the nationalism/patriotism fervor and look at how other countries deal with similar situations, we are not unique...

[Boges]

I think the East can work out it's own federation.

The East? You think people in Ontario really give a rats ass about Quebec and the Maritimes?

[g_bambino]

if all the provinces want to operate semi-autonomously on some issues let them...

The provinces already are semi-autonomous; they have been since Confederation.

[wyly]

The provinces already are semi-autonomous; they have been since Confederation.

obviously there are degrees of autonomy...

[g_bambino]

obviously there are degrees of autonomy...

Indeed. The question is: how much and is it the same for everyone?

Canada is already one of the world's most decentralised federations.

[wyly]

Indeed. The question is: how much and is it the same for everyone?

Canada is already one of the world's most decentralised federations.

well when they have their own Minister of Foreign and seat at the UN then maybe it's gone too far...or maybe not, san Marino and Andorra both have seat at the UN but san Marino defense is looked after by Italy and Andorra's by France and Spain...Andorra's head of State are co-Princes, the President of France and a Bishop from Spain...

I suppose we'll know when we get there if it's gone too far, it'll be what we can live with... revealing how far we will go beforehand would be revealing our cards...

Edited September 19, 2012 by wyly

[g_bambino]

well when they have their own Minister of Foreign and seat at the UN then maybe it's gone too far...or maybe not, san Marino and Andorra both have seat at the UN but san Marino defense is looked after by Italy and Andorra's by France and Spain...Andorra's head of State are co-Princes, the President of France and a Bishop from Spain...

Andorra and San Marino are both independent countries; neither is part of any federation, nor do they share their sovereignty with any other state.

[wyly]

Andorra and San Marino are both independent countries; neither is part of any federation, nor do they share their sovereignty with any other state.

neither is responsible for their own military which is a considerable surrender of sovereignty, both use the euro though neither is a member of the EU...

[The_Squid]

So does Alberta, so until the rest of the west speaks up and says Albertans don't speak for us, you are going along with them, as Easterners see it.

LOL. This doesn't even make any sense. How has Ontario "spoken up" about Alberta?

[jacee]

Or, at least, to people as ignorant as you.

Fight fire with fire.

Yes, I'm parodying the kind of ignorant attacks on Quebeckers we see on here all the time, emanating from the general direction of the west.

Because it's so sickening, and they don't speak for me nor, I think, for most Canadians in the east.

I just thought I'd turn it around, push that trash talk back at them, to see if they can comprehend how it makes people feel, being attacked like that.

And I do sincerely believe that such ignorant attacks fuel separatist sentiment in Quebec, and I don't blame Quebec. They make me want to separate from them too.

[jacee]

The East? You think people in Ontario really give a rats ass about Quebec and the Maritimes?

Yes

[Boges]

Yes

Perhaps some who used to live there. But I'd reckon that people in Ontario feel no more allegiance to Quebec than they do Alberta.

[guyser]

But I'd reckon that people in Ontario feel no more allegiance to Quebec than they do Alberta.

Probably true, but where would I rather visit?

Quebec, hands down.(not that it matters I guess)

[g_bambino]

neither is responsible for their own military which is a considerable surrender of sovereignty...

It's not a surrender of sovereignty, as it is the governments' free choice to use other countries' militaries. Of course, the choice comes with potential limits on each governemnt's future choices regarding defence and foreign policy. But, its their choice, nonetheless, and they can choose to immediately end that arrangement whenever they wish, as any sovereign country can.

[Wild Bill]

I just thought I'd turn it around, push that trash talk back at them, to see if they can comprehend how it makes people feel, being attacked like that.

Well, if you are going to "turn it around" you should do it in a more logical manner. Otherwise, you just sound silly!

There is an important difference here. Alberta PAYS and Quebec TAKES!

It's like being at a party where someone is being criticized for not paying his share of the beer. You are attempting to defend that person, who has been drinking most of a two-four after only putting a 6 pack into the ice tub!

Who will take your words seriously?

[g_bambino]

Alberta PAYS and Quebec TAKES!

By the same token, BC pays and Nova Scotia takes. Newfoundland and Labrador pays and Manitoba takes. What, then, is your point?

[wyly]

It's not a surrender of sovereignty, as it is the governments' free choice to use other countries' militaries. Of course, the choice comes with potential limits on each governemnt's future choices regarding defence and foreign policy. But, its their choice, nonetheless, and they can choose to immediately end that arrangement whenever they wish, as any sovereign country can.

however you want to spin it relinquishes a degree of sovereignty ...

anyways back to original point it serves as an example of how far separation/autonomy can be taken, there no rules and what is acceptable is decided by the people's involved...how much sovereignty Quebec wants and what we're prepared to give and still remain as one country will be whatever we're both comfortable with...

[westguy]

http://o.canada.com/2012/09/17/maple-leaf-taken-down-again-from-quebec-legislature-with-pq-entering-office/

I'm actually rather offended by this. Quebec gets a lot of money from the ROC and Miss Marois wants Stephen Harper to give them more.

The more they do crap like this the more anti-Quebec sentiment will grow and any separation talk will be met with a loud "Meh, don't let the Labrador hit you on the way out"

Just another "thank you" for the $8billion they suck out of the ROC

[Smallc]

By the same token, BC pays and Nova Scotia takes. Newfoundland and Labrador pays and Manitoba takes. What, then, is your point?

That 'takers' should have no say, no complaints, it seems.

[g_bambino]

Did she flinch when she had to pledge allegiance to the Queen?

She must have and didn't want to be seen doing it again! The Cabinet was sworn-in by the Lieutenant Governor behind closed doors.

On Wednesday, her determination to assert those shreds of sovereignty descended to the farcical. In an attempt to distance her separatist party from any visible association with the monarchy, cabinet ministers were sworn in by the lieutenant-governor behind closed doors before being introduced at a public ceremony in the Quebec City legislature's ceremonial chamber.

Marois' swearing-in ceremony becomes a sovereigntist farce

I like how she chose to be front and centre in her Louix XV chair/throne. How very Gaullist.

[ed.: sp]

Edited September 20, 2012 by g_bambino

[Boges]

Probably true, but where would I rather visit?

Quebec, hands down.(not that it matters I guess)

I dunno I hear Banff is rather beautiful. Calgary is a pretty cool trendy city too I hear. Heck they hired a Muslim mayor! When would anyone in Quebec ever do something like that?

Alberta appeals to rural conservative types. As someone who lives in the 905, I think I'd actually like it. It's ust so expensive to fly out there.

I've only been to Montreal, it's a nice city but also very English friendly.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Boges

[The_Squid]

Heck they hired a Muslim mayor! When would anyone in Quebec ever do something like that?

Can you name any other city in all of Canada that has hired voted for a Muslim mayor?

No you can't, because Calgary was the first. So instead of spouting anti-Quebec nonsense, it may be more correct to ask when the rest of Canada would ever do something like that?

I've only been to Montreal, it's a nice city but also very English friendly.

I've been to Quebec and traveled from Montreal to the mouth of the St. Lawrence. Not much English spoken in those parts, but never had any issues with English "discrimination".

People who haven't visited the Province should probably refrain from calling it "unfriendly" if you're English. What they would find if they actually went there is a Province that has no more rude people than Alberta or BC.... and a heck of a lot friendlier place than Toronto or southern Ontario....

Edited September 20, 2012 by The_Squid

[Boges]

Can you name any other city in all of Canada that has hired voted for a Muslim mayor?

No you can't, because Calgary was the first. So instead of spouting anti-Quebec nonsense, it may be more correct to ask when the rest of Canada would ever do something like that?

Sure but you have people like Jacee excusing Albertans as being racist hicks. Some parts might be full of them, but other parts are quite progressive. Just like in Quebec.

I've been to Quebec and traveled from Montreal to the mouth of the St. Lawrence. Not much English spoken in those parts, but never had any issues with English "discrimination".

People who haven't visited the Province should probably refrain from calling it "unfriendly" if you're English. What they would find if they actually went there is a Province that has no more rude people than Alberta or BC.... and a heck of a lot friendlier place than Toronto or southern Ontario....

I never said they were unfriendly. I'm just saying my only experience with Quebec was a city that was very English so other than the nice bagels, smoked meat and really nice old town, It didn't seem a heck of a lot different than Toronto to me.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Boges

[Boges]

Can you name any other city in all of Canada that has hired voted for a Muslim mayor?

No you can't, because Calgary was the first. So instead of spouting anti-Quebec nonsense, it may be more correct to ask when the rest of Canada would ever do something like that?

Sure but you have people like Jacee excusing Albertans as being racist hicks. Some parts might be full of them, but other parts are quite progressive. Just like in Quebec.

I've been to Quebec and traveled from Montreal to the mouth of the St. Lawrence. Not much English spoken in those parts, but never had any issues with English "discrimination".

People who haven't visited the Province should probably refrain from calling it "unfriendly" if you're English. What they would find if they actually went there is a Province that has no more rude people than Alberta or BC.... and a heck of a lot friendlier place than Toronto or southern Ontario....

I never said they were unfriendly. I'm just saying my only experience with Quebec was a city that was very English so other than the nice bagels, smoked meat and really nice old town, It didn't seem a heck of a lot different than Toronto to me.

Oh and Quebec and Alberta both don't treat people like children forcing us to go to a government retailer for beer and wine, like Ontario does

Edited September 20, 2012 by Boges

[The_Squid]

Oh and Quebec and Alberta both don't treat people like children forcing us to go to a government retailer for beer and wine, like Ontario does

Ontario has no private liquor stores?