Liberal leadership allowed ‘legally incompetent’ senator to vote month

[wyly]

But getting rid of the senate would be a lot more work than what you are leading on.

all that is required the will to do it and a little arm twisting...

senate, useless bunch of f***s, welfare for political hacks...

[Smallc]

The only messing I want done with the Senate is to put a stop to patronage appointments and have elected Senators.

I'm not in favour of that at all. If it were up to me, all provinces would have equal representation, and the power of appointment would move from the governor general in council to the lieutenant governors in council. Give the power to the provinces, and let each decide how their senators are appointed, whether through election, appointment, legislative vote, etc.

Of course, all of that requires a great deal of work for questionable gain.

[Smallc]

senate, useless bunch of f***s, welfare for political hacks...

And part of every single federation, though there are many unique iteration.

[wyly]

If the Senate was Triple E it would go a long way to making Canadians in smaller provinces feel more equal. If you live in PEI you have a totally different attitude towards Ottawa than someone in Ontario.

why should PEI have the same clout as ontario or quebec? that's nutty IMO...135 yrs ago that may have seemed a practical and fair idea but canada's population demographics no longer bear any resemblance to what it was at confederation....

The scenario you describe would be truly pointless. You would simply be duplicating the Commons, which of course would be of no value.

yup, abolish it, it serves no purpose and has added no value to our system and wouldn't even be missed...

[wyly]

And part of every single federation, though there are many unique iteration.

our useless ineffective senate absolutely verifies that it isn't needed, it won't make an iota of difference if it's abolished, it'll business as usual...HoC and a figurehead GG/president/big kahunna is all we need...

[Smallc]

why should PEI have the same clout as ontario or quebec?

Because constitutionally, they are equal partners in Confederation.

135 yrs ago that may have seemed a practical and fair idea but canada's population demographics no longer bear any resemblance to what it was at confederation....

It has nothing to with population. It has to do with PEI having equal constitutional status to Ontario.

yup, abolish it, it serves no purpose and has added no value to our system and wouldn't even be missed...

Okay, prove that. Show how things would work better without regional and less political representation.

our useless ineffective senate absolutely verifies that it isn't needed,

Your opinion doesn't verify anything.

it won't make an iota of difference if it's abolished, it'll business as usual...HoC and a figurehead GG/president/big kahunna is all we need...

So how do you know this?

Edited August 29, 2012 by Smallc

[capricorn]

Give the power to the provinces, and let each decide how their senators are appointed, whether through election, appointment, legislative vote, etc.

If Senators were not named under the same process across the board, human nature being what it is, you'd end up with a Chamber whose members would assign values to the processes under which they were appointed, i.e. elected Senators would claim to be more valid than appointed Senators. That's why I'm for uniformity of appointment.

[Smallc]

i.e. elected Senators would claim to be more valid than appointed Senators.

They would have absolutely no justification for doing so. It would be up to the people of each province to decide, after all, and if it was ever to change, it would still be up to the people of that province. I'm generally not in favour of another ayer of elected representatives though.

[wyly]

Because constitutionally, they are equal partners in Confederation.

It has nothing to with population. It has to do with PEI having equal constitutional status to Ontario.

it's a stupid outdated impractical concept that has no relevance in canada today...

Okay, prove that. Show how things would work better without regional and less political representation.

duh! because that's exactly we have today...the senate is USELESS!

Your opinion doesn't verify anything.

obviously more than yours, I know the senate does nothing you live in some pink skied candyland dream world with candy floss clouds and senators that think they have a real purpose...

So how do you know this?

because that's how our government has run for decades...but then I guess you need to have lived more than two decades to know that....

[Smallc]

it's a stupid outdated impractical concept that has no relevance in canada today...

It might seem that way unless you understand the way federations actually work and are constituted. PEI is a semi sovereign entity within the Canadian Confederation, with the same rights and powers as Ontario. It is that way by design.

duh! because that's exactly we have today...the senate is USELESS!

But they aren't useless. They perform their function as designed. They review, consider, and tweak legislation. In rare cases, they delay and reject. That's what they're supposed to be doing.

obviously more than yours, I know the senate does nothing you live in some pink skied candyland dream world with candy floss clouds and senators that think they have a real purpose...

because that's how our government has run for decades...but then I guess you need to have lived more than two decades to know that....

You apparently haven't lived long enough to understand how our government actually functions.

[madmax]

Because constitutionally, they are equal partners in Confederation.

Agreed

It has nothing to with population. It has to do with PEI having equal constitutional status to Ontario.

Agreed

Okay, prove that. Show how things would work better without regional and less political representation.

The Senate does not behave like a chamber reflection "Regional Interests" The Chamber reflects partizan political party interests and the "ONLY" thing pretending to be Regional is the birthplace of the Appointed Hack, even if they have lived outside of the region for most of their entire lives..

The Senate has never (to the best of my knowledge) voted by regional blocks on any issue, which if you look at the way this country political system operates, we are very regionally driven...

So, a Senate representing regional blocs having never voted as regional blocs might be the biggest evidence suggesting that the Senate does not provide political regional representation.

Not that those voting blocs would have helped, I am merely pointing out a fact that they vote as party, not as region.

[PIK]

Pik...I am deleting my post out of respect for you and your parents and others with this terrible disease...I was directing anger to the incompetent government that attacks the most vulnerable on a regular basis.

I going to do the same, you have no idea what goes on in my life , and I should remember that.

[Smallc]

So, a Senate representing regional blocs having never voted as regional blocs might be the biggest evidence suggesting that the Senate does not provide political regional representation.

Not when they vote, but when they are examining legislation, regional impacts and impacts of minority groups are always things that they consider.

[eyeball]

Not when they vote, but when they are examining legislation, regional impacts and impacts of minority groups are always things that they consider.

So they consider it and then just hold their noses and vote contrary to how they feel?

That's even more demented.

[Smallc]

So they consider it and then just hold their noses and vote contrary to how they feel?

Not necessarily. The Senate often tweaks legislation for various reasons, including regional concerns.

[punked]

Not necessarily. The Senate often tweaks legislation for various reasons, including regional concerns.

Also the Senate often doesn't do anything as well to legislation besides what they are told to do by their political masters.

The best Senators are often the ones who's political masters have long been out office which is why term limits will only make the beast worse not better. I understand what the Cons are doing with Senate reform I would argue however what they are doing is only making the upper house worse and reinforcing its major problems.

Edited August 29, 2012 by punked

[westguy]

OTTAWA — The Liberal leadership in the Senate allowed a veteran senator to vote on legislation and spend public dollars for four months after she was diagnosed with dementia and declared legally incompetent.

Sen. Joyce Fairbairn regularly attended Senate sittings and voted along party lines before the Upper Chamber rose for the summer at the end of June.

Fairbairn was diagnosed with dementia of the Alzheimer’s type by her geriatric psychiatrist in February, according to a letter sent to Senate officials by her niece, Patricia McCullagh.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/27/joyce-fairbairn/

And what was voted on during those 4 months?

I am surprised the Liberals didn't vote her as leader

[Smallc]

Also the Senate often doesn't do anything as well to legislation besides what they are told to do by their political masters.

Since they don't actually have masters that can take away their position, I don't really see why they would do anything for that reason.

The best Senators are often the ones who's political masters have long been out office which is why term limits will only make the beast worse not better.

I was never in favour of term lengths.

[PIK]

I am surprised the Liberals didn't vote her as leader

Now they want everyone to respect her privacy ,which I agree, but it was the libs that put this poor women in that situation. She can't even legally sign a cell phone contract.

[Tilter]

What's the difference?

Competent or incompetent-- the senate is responsible for acting as a double-dipping drag on the nation's resources--- and for nothing else. A person with Alzheimer’s is as able to fulfill those duties as a person who stays in Mexico for a year or 2. Actually, the live as a Mexican guy is better for the country than a full time senator because he doesn't spend as much of the country's money and also stays at arm's length from the trough

[PIK]

What's the difference?

Competent or incompetent-- the senate is responsible for acting as a double-dipping drag on the nation's resources--- and for nothing else. A person with Alzheimer’s is as able to fulfill those duties as a person who stays in Mexico for a year or 2. Actually, the live as a Mexican guy is better for the country than a full time senator because he doesn't spend as much of the country's money and also stays at arm's length from the trough

But by all accounts she was a very hard working person for the senate.The senate still has a place ,it just needs some tweaking, well alot of tweaking. lol

[punked]

But by all accounts she was a very hard working person for the senate.The senate still has a place ,it just needs some tweaking, well alot of tweaking. lol

As a fiscal conservative do you know how much the Senate costs us?

[Smallc]

As a fiscal conservative do you know how much the Senate costs us?

And how much would changes or abolition cost? And don't tell me nothing.

Also, fiscal conservatives generally accept that good governance comes with a price.

[punked]

And how much would changes or abolition cost? And don't tell me nothing.

Also, fiscal conservatives generally accept that good governance comes with a price.

It will cost a whole let less then an elected Senate or a Senate that does something because as we see in the US a vote comes with a big big price tag.

[Smallc]

It will cost a whole let less then an elected Senate or a Senate that does something because as we see in the US a vote comes with a big big price tag.

But as I said, good governance comes with a cost. The reality is, Canada has very effective governance as is. That's why I'm not in a hurry for any change...especially abolition.