Bad News for Labour

[Canuckistani]

Union members speak only for their own selfishness - not the good of the country

As opposed to who, exactly.

[eyeball]

Union members speak only for their own selfishness - not the good of the country

You mean greed is NOT the highest good in the country? Don't tell Kevin O'Leary.

[pete t teepee]

People with money don't need the feds spending. Buy private insurance for health care, hire nannies for daycare, don't need no stinkin welfare. This isn't just a war on labor, but on the middle class. It will be very nice to be part of the global 1%, because you'll once again be able to get your servants for a pittance.

Won't be much fun to be among the 1% when they're lined up in front of the guillotine again lol

[blueblood]

Won't be much fun to be among the 1% when they're lined up in front of the guillotine again lol

It would be worse for those idiots afterwards when their standard of living drops like a rock

[Bonam]

If the unions go, so does the middle class and with only low and higher income earners

This is a lie.

[cybercoma]

This is a lie.

Not really. You can see it in practice over the last 30 years. Compare the middle class of 1982 to the middle class of today, but also look at unions over that time.

[WWWTT]

This is a lie.

This is a fact!

WWWTT

[jacee]

It would be worse for those idiots afterwards when their standard of living drops like a rock

Contrary to the beliefs of some, you can't take your money with you past the guillotine.

And your assets will already be 'liberated'.

[madmax]

In a union shop, it is MUCH more complicated! First off, let's suppose the manager is lucky and the employee HAS a good work ethic! A bit of observation and perhaps some hints may be enough. A bit of retraining can be done if truly necessary.

Still, likely the union steward will immediately get involved anyway! He will begin by stating the manager has no right to question the worker's abilities. He will insist that any problems are the direct result of management having poorly thought out the job process or in sufficient FORMAL training! Management will be expected to give the employee a formal instruction course, meaning anything from a few days to a few weeks. On company time, of course.

New Employees in most Union Shops have a 90 day to 180 period in which they are not Union Members.

No Shop steward can protect them. Management determine whether or not someone is fit to remain.

The decision rests with HR from input from the Foreman.

They can easily (AND ARE) terminated if they do not perform.

The Ball totally rests with the Management and management has the right to terminate ro keep and employee.

If the problem is actually the worker has a bad attitude, the union steward will just defend him all the harder.

Of course, because the Steward has nothing better to do then run around and chase the tail of a demanding worker with a bad attitutde that is always in his eyeballs in crap. And Stewards will ignore all the inputs from his coworkers of 20 years that are on him about that employee with the bad attitude not carrying his load.

Sure the Steward will defend him harder because he wants his workplace enviroment to be miserable and poisoned by a bad apple. I am sure that steward is thinking, yup, can't wait for this turkey to pass probation, he is going to burn up alot of union members dough.

If management tries to transfer the worker to another job there may be other problems. Is there another job?

If not he is terminated like anyone else as he is not fit to do the job prescribe.

The company cannot displace another worker - that too is not allowed. Even equal pay may not be enough. There may be differences in physical effort.

You want to displace a good worker for a bsd worker?

The process can be so long, stretched out and aggravating that many companies get lazy and just try to avoid the confrontations. Of course, the quality problems don't simply vanish. In such situations they actually will get worse. Why not? There is no correction to worry about.

All companies I have dealt with in Canada have a quality policy and a discipline procedure relating to quality issues. Usually anything from direct immediate discipline including termination or in lessor quality issues, progressive discipline with gives time for corrective action. Essentially shape up or ship out. Writings on the wall.

Please don't try to say I am exaggerating. My father was a union steel worker and would tell us of how some guys would deliberately break machinery in order to get some hours of idle time sitting around!

If its deliberate, its sabotage and that is a fireable offence in any company. Exists in every contract including USW.

We would hear of how someone was, in my dad's opinion anyway, the laziest and poorest worker ever hired would successfully resist any attempt by the company to address him as a problem, with the aid of the union.

1) The Company hired this lazy poor worker. Not the Union

2) The Company did not weed out said worker before probation period ended.

3) After said worker is in the Union, the union has a legal obligation to represent that worker, with a steward. Failure to do so results in a DFR.

The steward then handles the dispute and the dispute is resolved by the process in the Collective Agreement of the company and the union. Its called a contract.

Job Performance and description of the job is part of any contract .

I used to have a neighbour who was also a union steelworker. He had not worked in years, being listed as disabled. I watched him build an above ground pool in his back yard. He held some great parties! I would watch from my own back yard and wow! That man was a fantastic dancer!

Well , well well, I have never known an insurance scammer unless its been a Union member. I am sure that non union people would ever engage in such a practice.

Lets see, you had a neighbour and really you don't know if he is or isn't disabled or what the disability is. Perhaps it was brain damage, lung damage, abspetos or PCP used as hand and face cleaners....worked way better then thinner from the parts washer...

But that said, if he is scamming, he is scamming a benefits package that union members and companies pay into. He is screwing everyone.

That saying good video given to the provider often changes the amount of the benefit including termination of said benefits.

And I have witnessed that as well as anyone. CUT OFF.

You see, a cheat is a cheat.

Its got nothing to do with a Union as a cheat scams and union just like anyone else.

When I worked at Westinghouse there were a few bad apples. They were always the ones that would bring their job to a halt over a dispute with a WHMIS issue, or something to do with health and safety. It was never a valid issue but always something nit-picking and ridiculous but the steward would jump in and as much as 3 days could be wasted at a time!

Not a valid issue. Whmis is pretty dang clear. Health and Safety, well I have seen (in my non union position) management argue that the dock collapsing was not a Health and Safety threat for forklift drivers.

Fact is, You might have been saved alot of grief with the Union/management joint process as some people , by pass the Union and call the Ministry and if you want a HEADACHE that is how you get one.

Just bring in the government on health and safety.

They never leave empty handed.

The problem for management is that even if they are absolutely on the side of right it doesn't matter. Sometimes they have a militant union that will fight them to the point of a walkout and beyond! This costs an incredible amount of lost time and the temptation to just let it slide is overwhelming.

I am not trying to say that the majority of union workers are bad apples. The problem is that only a few can cause real problems

True

€and in virtually ALL cases their union will vigorously defend them!

False.

You have to be kidding. The Union is obligated by law to "represent" the individually fairly.

That includings telling them whether they "Have a Grievance" need a violin, some wine and some cheese, or even, yes you got a point, but its not in the agreement so there is nothing that can be done.

Unions, in my experience are very orderly and the rules are very clear, thus to run into issues with Overtime and such are often the result of new inexperienced foreman who make honest mistakes, to companies deciding they want to run the show differently and ignore the contract they signed.

Sometimes its creating a crises.

I have never seen that as a better avenue, but its a fact of life these things happen too.

Like most things in real life, the argument is not digital. The union workers are not all bad and management is not all good but the converse is also true. Black and white positions in such arguments are just fantasy and blind partisanship.

Well I won't disagree with you here...

exactly were did you criticise management, I read alot of union stuff only....

As a director of KPMG told me 5 years ago.

We are much happier to operate in a Union SHop as they have a strong chain of command that can accomplish goals when the management of the company we are invested in through court order is breaking down or unable ot perform their duties.

That said WB, for every analogy you have, I have one as well. Infact from every side of the fence and I have been on both sides over the years. A union operation being later in my life and I ate alot of crow cause I believed alot of crap I was told.